Confirmed with Link: Fleury re-signed (4 years, $23M, $5.75M AAV)

[NewAgeOutlaw]

He is being payed like an average regular season goalie and you can find an average regular season goalie for even cheaper than average pay. Seriously there are a lot of really bad goalie contracts. Too bad for every decent playoff year Fleury has 2 where he is historically bad.

How do you expect to pay less than an average salary for an average goaltender? The current contracts aren't "bad", the market for goaltending is currently inflated. Please list me all of these goalies as good or better than Fleury that we could have realistically had for less money.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Because he's had the good fortune to play with Crosby and Malkin.



That's right, wait no. Because Fleury's SV% in 2010, 2012, and 2013 were all worse than Emery's worst SV% in 2011, just like I said.



No, if I had been doing that, I could say that Fleury's 2007 playoffs were worse too.



I really don't understand what you're referring to here. Fleury hasn't had 4 of anything better than Emery's best since '09, and I was very clearly only talking about both's performances since '09.



Good thing I didn't say that then, eh? I just said I hated the deal that signed a proven flake to nearly 6 mil per for 4 years.

I'd rather risk signing any number of less "proven" (proven terrible - the fact that people are using Fleury's track record here as a positive is hilarious) goalies than deal with 4 more post-seasons of Fleury's highlights being played to Benny Hill music. Your mileage obviously varies.

You are still comparing Emery since 09 to Fleury? How do you still fail to understand that using a 40+ game sample for 1 guy and a 9 game sample for the other guy is completely stupid and skews the data?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You are still comparing Emery since 09 to Fleury? How do you still fail to understand that using a 40+ game sample for 1 guy and a 9 game sample for the other guy is completely stupid and skews the data?

How do you not understand that a ****ing AWFUL track record is not a positive.

He played 40+ games. Whoopdy ****. He was 21st of 23 goalies man! Only Fleury gets credit for simply showing up to play games despite being at the absolute bottom of the class in those games.

 

[Shwag33]

Very true. Fleury could've signed for $25/yr and there'd still be some people blowing up over it.

Not true, if he signed for 3.5mill i'd go from being angry to thinking... wow thats about exactly what he's worth.



I love Madden going off about his love affair with MAF. Literally just screaming on the radio. Whats funny is he called vokoun a curtain jerker can't win the stanley cup with a guy like that. Well that on the pens team had better starts than fleury by far, since 08.


They'd never do it, but I'd love to see them start greiss 10 games in a row, then fleury 10 games in a row. Compare, whats the extra 4.5 mill worth.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

How do you not understand that a ****ing AWFUL track record is not a positive.

He played 40+ games. Whoopdy ****. He was 21st of 23 goalies man! Only Fleury gets credit for simply showing up to play games despite being at the absolute bottom of the class in those games.

But Emery should get credit for playing 9 games in that span and being just as bad, posting a sub-.900 save percentage in 3 of those 9 games? You can argue for Harding or Niemi but you are making yourself look foolish by continually arguing in favor of a career backup with a history of attitude problems and using 9 games in 5 years where he wasn't even good as justification.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But Emery should get credit for playing 9 games in that span and being just as bad, posting a sub-.900 save percentage in 3 of those 9 games? You can argue for Harding or Niemi but you are making yourself look foolish by continually arguing in favor of a career backup with a history of attitude problems and using 9 games in 5 years where he wasn't even good as justification.

I'm not giving Emery credit for anything. I'm saying that despite all the obvious negatives against Emery, I'd still rather give him a trial run at a much lower price than commit big money to our proven headcase for the next 4 years. The guy currently makes 1/5 of what Fleury does. If we're going to dumpster dive in net with an Emery or Fleury calibre goalie, we might as well have some extra cap space to play with.

But people are going to continue to dedicate entire pages to Emery, even though he's the worst of all possible options mentioned.

 

[Woodrow]

How do you expect to pay less than an average salary for an average goaltender? The current contracts aren't "bad", the market for goaltending is currently inflated. Please list me all of these goalies as good or better than Fleury that we could have realistically had for less money.

MAF had a regular season sv% of 9.15 last year. 26 goalies had that or better last year. Furthermore 35 goalies had a save % of 9.11 or better last year. This tells me there are a lot of average NHL goalies that can be had for less than MAF dollars.

Halak 4.5 mil
Bernier 2.9
Khudobin 2.25
Scrivens 2.3

And the following guys were back ups with better save% than Fleury and I'd rather take a risk with them starting:

Greiss 1 mil
Montoya 1.05

Why take a risk with Fleury when you can take the same risk with a better value contract!!!!!

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I'm not giving Emery credit for anything. I'm saying that despite all the obvious negatives against Emery, I'd still rather give him a trial run at a much lower price than commit big money to our proven headcase for the next 4 years. The guy currently makes 1/5 of what Fleury does. If we're going to dumpster dive in net with an Emery or Fleury calibre goalie, we might as well have some extra cap space to play with.

But people are going to continue to dedicate entire pages to Emery, even though he's the worst of all possible options mentioned.

Well I guess we should hope that JR knows something that most of us don't. The guy has made some really great moves thus far and has drastically improved the depth of the roster in a very short amount of time while adding a cheap and very capable backup/contingency plan in Greiss. Like I said earlier, I think this signing is a 50/50 proposition. 50% chance Fleury lives up to the contract 50% chance he continues to implode and it blows up in JR's face.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

MAF had a regular season sv% of 9.15 last year. 26 goalies had that or better last year. Furthermore 35 goalies had a save % of 9.11 or better last year. This tells me there are a lot of average NHL goalies that can be had for less than MAF dollars.

Halak 4.5 mil
Bernier 2.9
Khudobin 2.25
Scrivens 2.3

And the following guys were back ups with better save% than Fleury and I'd rather take a risk with them starting:

Greiss 1 mil
Montoya 1.05

Why take a risk with Fleury when you can take the same risk with a better value contract!!!!!

None of the 4 starters you listed were realistic acquisitions for the Penguins, Greiss is already on the Penguins and Montoya is a joke.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Not true, if he signed for 3.5mill i'd go from being angry to thinking... wow thats about exactly what he's worth.

I love Madden going off about his love affair with MAF. Literally just screaming on the radio. Whats funny is he called vokoun a curtain jerker can't win the stanley cup with a guy like that. Well that on the pens team had better starts than fleury by far, since 08.

They'd never do it, but I'd love to see them start greiss 10 games in a row, then fleury 10 games in a row. Compare, whats the extra 4.5 mill worth.

This x 1000000. FunkyseeFunkydo (great username BTW) has been posting some crushing MULTI SEASON stats against Fleury compared to his backups and there is simply no way to defend that he actually performs at the same level as his backups (unlike pretty much every starting goalies in the league). All_we_are_say_ing, is_give_Greiss_a_chance.

 

[ProgOg]

Here is an interesting look at Bales' effect on Fleury so far:

via @MikeDarnay

 

[cassius]

One narrative from the local media is Fleury had a "great 2014 playoffs". Yes he was improved as for the first time since the 2009 playoffs, Fleury's save percentage in the post-season was above .900, at .915. That number, though, is quite misleading because of two shutouts in the Rangers series.
In six of Fleury's final eight starts in the 2014 playoffs, he had a save percentage, .900 or below, and in Games 5-7 of the Rangers series, all games the Penguins could have eliminated the Rangers from the playoffs, Fleury's save percentage was .882, .897, .900.
Since the 2010 post-season, Fleury has a .891 save percentage and has won just two series (Round 1 vs Ottawa, 2010, Round 1 vs Columbus, 2014) during that span. One big concern for Fleury in the post-season is the momentum killer goals against and the lack of a killer instinct to close out a series.</div>
Here are Fleury's numbers in playoff games that were either elimination games or games the Penguins could knock the opposition out of the playoffs.

(Fleury's record in those games, 4-10)

2010 Playoffs
Round 1: Games 5-6 vs Ottawa: .909 SV%, .903 SV%
Round 2: Games 6-7 vs Montreal: .840 SV%, .692 SV%

2011 Playoffs
Round 1: Games 5-7 vs Tampa Bay: .714 SV%, .810 SV%, .957 SV%

2012 Playoffs
Round 1: Games 4-6 vs Philadelphia: .880 SV%, .923 SV%, .818 SV%

2014 Playoffs
Round 1: Game 6 vs Columbus, .889 SV%
Games 5-7 vs Rangers, 882 SV%, .897 SV%, .900 SV%

scary stats...

 

[blueliner18]

Ok one thing people are neglecting to think about, how terrible the entire team played in front of Fleury during Bylsma's tenure. Think about the last 5 playoff seasons. In most instances Fleury was left on an island in the defensive zone. Bylsma's "stick on puck" defensive philosophy was an absolute joke when it came to playoff style hockey. Even during the regular season the Pens had defensive zone trouble. Teams cycled in the corners all day long against the Pens and it resulted in quality scoring chance after quality scoring chance. Are there some instances where Fleury over played a situation, sure. The occasional bad goal, yep. Ask yourself if Fleury isn't the right fit then who is? My point in that statement, it could be a whole lot worse than Fleury. IMO Fleury has been an easy scapegoat for the horrible defensive hockey the Pens have played over the past 5 seasons.

 

[wolffy66]

I simply can't believe that so many people can watch a goalie blow playoffs series after series and just sit back and welcome more of it. This is like a bad dream.

 

[IcedCapp]

Ok one thing people are neglecting to think about, how terrible the entire team played in front of Fleury during Bylsma's tenure. Think about the last 5 playoff seasons. In most instances Fleury was left on an island in the defensive zone. Bylsma's "stick on puck" defensive philosophy was an absolute joke when it came to playoff style hockey. Even during the regular season the Pens had defensive zone trouble. Teams cycled in the corners all day long against the Pens and it resulted in quality scoring chance after quality scoring chance. Are there some instances where Fleury over played a situation, sure. The occasional bad goal, yep. Ask yourself if Fleury isn't the right fit then who is? My point in that statement, it could be a whole lot worse than Fleury. IMO Fleury has been an easy scapegoat for the horrible defensive hockey the Pens have played over the past 5 seasons.

yea, this literally has never been mentioned before.

Nor is it a gross exaggeration and oversimplification of the situation.

 

[ProgOg]

yea, this literally has never been mentioned before.

Nor is it a gross exaggeration and oversimplification of the situation.

That probably sums up almost every side in every Fleury discussion.

 

[Night Shift]

Stupid to sign him for this money at this moment. Why not wait? It's not like somebody else is going to suddenly snatch him away. At best, Fleury has been a disappointment during his time with the Pens. I just believe the Fleury we'll see in the post season is the Fleury we always see in the post season...wildly inconsistent and a head case. About the only positive regarding this signing is seeing if those posters saying they will stop watching the Penguins if Fleury is resigned walk the walk.

see ya

And no coming back on the wagon

 

[Ogrezilla]

That's right, wait no. Because Fleury's SV% in 2010, 2012, and 2013 were all worse than Emery's worst SV% in 2011, just like I said.

False. You said Emery's worst since 2009, which was .888 in 2013/2014.

Good thing I didn't say that then, eh?

never said you did.

 

[Gold Diamond]

Delicious Fleury hate is delicious. I'm no fan of his, but we've got him for the next 4 plus seasons after this. Time for him to calm his **** down and play like he used to before the unholy terror of Bylsma ruined his game.

 

[cassius]

I don't understand why folks who don't love this deal are labeled as haters. It's a silly and stupid label.

People have different opinions. Deal with it.

 

[Winger for Hire]

When we're discussing MAF's playoff stats, why is 2009 the cutoff date on his stats? 2010 and on is all fair game, but if someone brings up 2008 and 2009, suddenly "Holy crap, that's so long ago that it's not admissible!" I'm assuming because it helps skew the stats away from what those people are arguing. 2010 is pretty long ago as well, why isn't that under the same statute of limitations as 2009?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I simply can't believe that so many people can watch a goalie blow playoffs series after series and just sit back and welcome more of it. This is like a bad dream.

Some of us saw the writing on the wall awhile ago, while others had this delusion the org was going to let the most beloved and marketable goalie in franchise history walk.

MAF teammates love him, including Crosby. That goes a long way with management. People don't seem to grasp that. TV was playing stellar hockey two years ago in the playoffs, and MAF teammates were lobbying for him to play again.

If Crosby had a hand in Dupuis and Kunitz playing on his line all of these years, I'm pretty sure he lobbied for the team to extend MAF. If Crosby is comfortable placing his legacy in MAF hands, then that's fine by me.

MAF teammates and especially mgmt has put their faith in him over and over again, so I'm hoping he rises up and rewards them.

There was enough whining and tears over the Neal trade and it just gets old.

 

[Night Shift]

I don't understand why folks who don't love this deal are labeled as haters. It's a silly and stupid label.

People have different opinions. Deal with it.

Just like those who are fine with it are labeled as blind followers? I mean this wasn't exactly news and Rutherford did say it was going to happen it was just a matter of when- I don't get why everyone is whining and crying unless they didn't know.

 

[UnrealMachine]

When we're discussing MAF's playoff stats, why is 2009 the cutoff date on his stats? 2010 and on is all fair game, but if someone brings up 2008 and 2009, suddenly "Holy crap, that's so long ago that it's not admissible!" I'm assuming because it helps skew the stats away from what those people are arguing. 2010 is pretty long ago as well, why isn't that under the same statute of limitations as 2009?

The biggest argument for Fleury is that he won a Stanley Cup, so people are simply evaluating his performance(s) since then. If you want to look at his all-time playoff sv% and compare that to the league average over that time period, go ahead, just don't expect the result to be much different.

 

[blueliner18]

Delicious Fleury hate is delicious. I'm no fan of his, but we've got him for the next 4 plus seasons after this. Time for him to calm his **** down and play like he used to before the unholy terror of Bylsma ruined his game.

This, exactly this...lets see how he responds when his team plays a responsible style of defense in front of him.