Confirmed with Link: Fleury re-signed (4 years, $23M, $5.75M AAV) #2

[ProgOg]

ignoring the irrelevant All-Star Game, Fleury's game has been slowly coming back down to earth over the past month or so. Is this due to the injuries in front of him? Possibly. But I don't think he's playing at nearly the level he was the first 2 or 3 months of the season.

He had his best overall numbers in December, where injuries seemed to have been worse. Defense is definitely not playing it's best right now, of course.

Overplaying could be a factor here, or just normal regression. I didn't think him playing Vezina-level would have happened for the whole season, but we'll see where he stands in the end.

 

[JQR]

And that was when Fleury didn't have an actual goalie coach. He does now. It's not a hard concept to grasp. If he plays like he did last year (which is the most relevant set of data), he's fine. If he plays like he did in 2012, it's a bad deal.

That's a lot of stock to put into a goalie coach for a goalie who is in his prime. Maybe 10 years ago I would agree, but I can't imagine a goalie coach would have anywhere near the impact to be able to attribute to Fleury's recent performance spike. I'm far more comfortable with the idea that it's just the normal ebb and flow and he's having a particularly good streak.

 

[ProgOg]

That's a lot of stock to put into a goalie coach for a goalie who is in his prime. Maybe 10 years ago I would agree, but I can't imagine a goalie coach would have anywhere near the impact to be able to attribute to Fleury's recent performance spike. I'm far more comfortable with the idea that it's just the normal ebb and flow and he's having a particularly good streak.

Bales does seem to be having an effect on that ebb and flow:

 

[Til the End of Time]

The Pens could have 1998/99 Dominik Hasek in net and people would still be *****ing about goaltending.

this is quite the exagerration. fleury has delivered some of the worst postseasons in history. the fans have been almost embarrassingly supportive of fleury throughout his time here. any ill will directed towards him is solely of his own design.

 

[IcedCapp]

The Pens could have 1998/99 Dominik Hasek in net and people would still be *****ing about goaltending.

is that what people are doing?

 

[Shady Machine]

The Pens could have 1998/99 Dominik Hasek in net and people would still be *****ing about goaltending.

Which would be a relevant statement if we actually had 98/99 Hasek in net and people were still *****ing. Since we don't, and our starter is a guy who has had a string of sub .900 playoff meltdowns, I'd say it's fair to be a little skeptical about the goaltending heading into the playoffs.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

this is quite the exagerration. fleury has delivered some of the worst postseasons in history. the fans have been almost embarrassingly supportive of fleury throughout his time here. any ill will directed towards him is solely of his own design.

MAF was drafted into an ideal situation, no doubt. He would have been driven out of just about any Canadian city or big market club in the US by now.

Pens fans in Pgh are a much more forgiving lot than most, especially compared to Steeler fans who want to trade Roethlisberger even though he has won two SBs and just had a monster year.

Hopefully he rewards the org and fans that have shown him almost unseen loyalty in this or any other sport.

 

[Shady Machine]

That's a lot of stock to put into a goalie coach for a goalie who is in his prime. Maybe 10 years ago I would agree, but I can't imagine a goalie coach would have anywhere near the impact to be able to attribute to Fleury's recent performance spike. I'm far more comfortable with the idea that it's just the normal ebb and flow and he's having a particularly good streak.

If you haven't noticed a change in how Fleury is playing the game, then you aren't paying attention. Of course, all of that could go out the window with another mental meltdown. I do believe Bales has made a positive difference. We will see if it's sustainable.

 

[JQR]

If you haven't noticed a change in how Fleury is playing the game, then you aren't paying attention. Of course, all of that could go out the window with another mental meltdown. I do believe Bales has made a positive difference. We will see if it's sustainable.

That's my point. Fleury has had good stretches in the past, it's really hard for me to believe this is anything extraordinary. If it is, then Bales is going to be known as the Net Whisperer, and could demand some serious coin for his services.

 

[mikethelegacy]

That's my point. Fleury has had good stretches in the past, it's really hard for me to believe this is anything extraordinary. If it is, then Bales is going to be known as the Net Whisperer, and could demand some serious coin for his services.

I'm no Fleury apologist, and he has had some AWFUL flubs in the postseason, but some of his performances were direct results of TERRIBLE defense. Take the Flyers series in like 2011 or whatever year it was; every goal almost was a defensive breakdown or a breakaway, or a 2-on-1. No goalie is going to thrive playing against that. Not everyone can put up a Tim Thomas post-season.

You don't just become a different goalie in the post-season. His team hasn't done much to support him these past 5 years...

 

[Winger for Hire]

MAF went from zero coaching to a coach that is actually teaching him. It's not a stretch to believe that's going to help him.

Bales doesn't have to be anything extraordinary, just a middle of the road coach.

 

[Riptide]

That's a lot of stock to put into a goalie coach for a goalie who is in his prime. Maybe 10 years ago I would agree, but I can't imagine a goalie coach would have anywhere near the impact to be able to attribute to Fleury's recent performance spike. I'm far more comfortable with the idea that it's just the normal ebb and flow and he's having a particularly good streak.

Perhaps if he'd had proper goalie coaches before, I might agree with you.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

You don't just become a different goalie in the post-season. His team hasn't done much to support him these past 5 years...

And he has done even less to support his team. Good goalies bail out their defense, just like MAF did in the first half of this season. And yes, if you're as fragile mentally as Fleury, you become a different goalie when the stakes are high.

Anyway, it's a waste of time debating this. It all comes down to how he does in the playoffs from here on out. Nothing he does in the regular season (good or bad) will prove if the deal was a good decision. It will be evaluated based on the playoffs.

 

[penguins2946*]

That's a lot of stock to put into a goalie coach for a goalie who is in his prime. Maybe 10 years ago I would agree, but I can't imagine a goalie coach would have anywhere near the impact to be able to attribute to Fleury's recent performance spike. I'm far more comfortable with the idea that it's just the normal ebb and flow and he's having a particularly good streak.

Fleury plays a much calmer and more technical game under Bales. You just have to watch him to see it. Fleury not having a real goalie coach ****ed his development, he had a glorified cheerleader for so long that he basically developed because of skill. Goaltending is almost a purely technical position, and Fleury's composure has been infinitely better under Bales than it was under Meloche.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I mean, the contract is fine. He'll get this team to the playoffs year in and year out.
The tedious part will be always trying to find a competent backup if and when MAF shows he can't get the job done in the PO's until Jarry or Murray are ready to come aboard.

Good news is our GM is a former goaltender. He went out and got a solid back up us this year and for Ward when he was struggling as well. He knows how important goaltending is.

 

[Shady Machine]

That's my point. Fleury has had good stretches in the past, it's really hard for me to believe this is anything extraordinary. If it is, then Bales is going to be known as the Net Whisperer, and could demand some serious coin for his services.

What I am telling you isn't just about numbers or a few spectacular saves here and there. The way Fleury plays goal has changed and that is based on recommendations from Bales. He plays deeper in net, relies less on acrobatics and more on positional play. We have seen far less fish out of water scenarios with him this year (minus last night). Now, all of that could change if he has a meltdown and reverts to his old instincts.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Well, there's like a decade of data that suggests otherwise, but ok.

There's about a decade of data that suggests he wouldn't play as well as he is this regular season to. But he is.

 

[jmelm]

It's pretty funny that Fleury let in way more goals than any other goalie in the all star game.

 

[penguins2946*]

It's pretty funny that Fleury let in way more goals than any other goalie in the all star game.

He let in 1 more than Elliot. I didn't know 1 was way more.

 

[JQR]

Fleury plays a much calmer and more technical game under Bales. You just have to watch him to see it. Fleury not having a real goalie coach ****ed his development, he had a glorified cheerleader for so long that he basically developed because of skill. Goaltending is almost a purely technical position, and Fleury's composure has been infinitely better under Bales than it was under Meloche.

Which is pretty interesting. Meloche was the goaltending coach for 7 years, and there was really nothing to show for his time there. Except the cup. I wonder if that cup win just bought him time, or if nobody really considered goaltender coaching to be that significant a factor. But it definitely seems like goaltending coaches are able to avoid a lot more blame than other coaching staff. I don't recall there ever being an overwhelming effort to replace Meloche before he left, and now that he's gone it looks to be one of the best (hopefully) moves that the team could have made, assuming the Fleury changes can be attributed to better coaching.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Kind of along the same topic of MAF/Bales' improvements-

I've noticed the past handful of games, or so, that MAF's been standing up while defending the posts, as opposed to his usual one leg down, one leg up and not quite tight to the post. I'm not a goalie specialist, so I could seeing things that aren't there.

So what I'm really asking is- Is this part of Bales' coaching, or just something that he's been doing for awhile that I just haven't caught before?

 

[Shwag33]

What I am telling you isn't just about numbers or a few spectacular saves here and there. The way Fleury plays goal has changed and that is based on recommendations from Bales. He plays deeper in net, relies less on acrobatics and more on positional play. We have seen far less fish out of water scenarios with him this year (minus last night). Now, all of that could change if he has a meltdown and reverts to his old instincts.

During his recent slump he's gone back to the way he's always been. Now whether thats just growing pains or what, but he hasnt looks nearly as poised in the last 1.5 months. For the sake of this team he needs to play like a top 10 goalie consistently.

I personally think he's just mentally fragile. His SV% was better last playoffs, but he let in some softies in the ranger series that put the team down early, shaky moments in columbus. I know you can't blame everything on him, but he doesn't give me confidence.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

During his recent slump he's gone back to the way he's always been. Now whether thats just growing pains or what, but he hasnt looks nearly as poised in the last 1.5 months. For the sake of this team he needs to play like a top 10 goalie consistently.

I think the safe theory would be that he was overachieving. He's better this season but expecting that performance to continue wasn't reasonable, there's an improvement but he's not Vezina good. Recently is probably a cold streak and in reality he'll end up being something in the middle.

My big concern is how he's been against Metro teams.

I personally think he's just mentally fragile. His SV% was better last playoffs, but he let in some softies in the ranger series that put the team down early, shaky moments in columbus. I know you can't blame everything on him, but he doesn't give me confidence.

Pretty much and I don't know how much they can fix that about him. He was better but I still don't trust him and the team is prone to freaking out at the hint of him melting down in the playoffs which compounds the problem.

 

[JQR]

Kind of along the same topic of MAF/Bales' improvements-

I've noticed the past handful of games, or so, that MAF's been standing up while defending the posts, as opposed to his usual one leg down, one leg up and not quite tight to the post. I'm not a goalie specialist, so I could seeing things that aren't there.

So what I'm really asking is- Is this part of Bales' coaching, or just something that he's been doing for awhile that I just haven't caught before?

That's pretty much where I'm at as well. I think a lot of the reason I have a hard time giving credit to the goaltender coaching is based on my own ignorance. I really have no idea what a goaltending coach does (or is supposed to do).

Like, I get the head and assistant coaches... they decide line composition; plays; how the team will generally position themselves on the ice in relation to where the puck may be at any given time; even what an individual player's role on the ice may be... that makes sense to me. But I guess I never thought about what a goaltender coach does to influence the goalies.

I was always under the impression that the goalie was allowed a lot more lenience as far as their "play style" and that coaching a goalie was more an act in repetition than in technical training (at least at the pro level). I wonder if that's a common perception.

 

[cassius]

MAF was drafted into an ideal situation, no doubt. He would have been driven out of just about any Canadian city or big market club in the US by now.

Pens fans in Pgh are a much more forgiving lot than most, especially compared to Steeler fans who want to trade Roethlisberger even though he has won two SBs and just had a monster year.

Hopefully he rewards the org and fans that have shown him almost unseen loyalty in this or any other sport.

Some would say rewarding mediocrity in the form of a contract extension is insanity.. especially when you consider that Fleury's mediocrity is a direct reason why the Pens have underachieved in the post-season. It would be like if an NFL franchise re-signed a QB that threw 4+ interceptions in every post-season game for the past 4 years.

However, like you said, Fleury's situation cannot be viewed through the lense of rationality and logic. There's none of that around these parts. No logical person would put that much faith in an embattled goaltender who has been proven to be the weak link time and time again.

If Fleury ends up continuing his trend of sabotaging the Pens playoff success, the Pens brass will get what they deserve. You can't let personal relationships and affability come before winning. It's clear that they like Fleury as a person so much that it trumps all of his abyssmal performances on the ice.