Confirmed with Link: Flames Sign Michael Stone (no, really)

[Fig]

Not officially, but non-deals are never officially confirmed. I forget which reporter it was has stated the deal was Jankowski & Brodie for Kadri & Brown, with the Flames flipping Brown to a 3rd team.

I never saw the Brown flipping bit. I would have hoped we'd keep him tbh. Our RW depth is THAT bad lol.

Yeah, I remember the Brown flipping bit too. But it seemed so odd at the time. Why would we do that when keeping Brown and flipping an excess LW makes more sense? (ie: Janko/Mango etc.)

The rumored trade with TO looked reasonable, but TO made out like bandits on the Colorado trade with Barrie. Colorado must really have undervalued their guys.

On the topic of TO, I just realized Klimchuk is with the Sens now.

 

[DFF]

Buy-out Stone only to re-sign Stone.

Words can't express how ****ing pissed off I am. Useless player screwing the Flames twice. Just when I think they get this absolute bum off this team they bring him back. Kylington going to get screwed no matter how much better he is because "muh right hand shot".

If Kylington can't beat out Michael Stone, it's nobody but it's his own fault.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Yeah, I remember the Brown flipping bit too. But it seemed so odd at the time. Why would we do that when keeping Brown and flipping an excess LW makes more sense? (ie: Janko/Mango etc.)

The rumored trade with TO looked reasonable, but TO made out like bandits on the Colorado trade with Barrie. Colorado must really have undervalued their guys.

On the topic of TO, I just realized Klimchuk is with the Sens now.

Right? Kerfoot is a really nice piece, and I think Barrie is equal to Brodie at worst.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Not officially, but non-deals are never officially confirmed. I forget which reporter it was has stated the deal was Jankowski & Brodie for Kadri & Brown, with the Flames flipping Brown to a 3rd team.

Good enough for me.

 

[Fig]

Right? Kerfoot is a really nice piece, and I think Barrie is equal to Brodie at worst.

I guess to be fair, Colorado didn't really have an acquisition cost for Kerfoot. They got him for free. Flames spent a pick and a ton of time developing Janko.

Now, an odd thing I wonder about Janko though, is that he was drafted for his offensive creativity and acumen, but his defensive game was super weak. So he went to Union College to work on his defensive game and leadership. I think he's struggling to put things together right now, but if we are patient, we will have a good one. However, I can't help but think that his focus on the defensive side of the game is causing problems for his offense to reappear. I think he's kinda like Bennett and Baertschi right now in that he keeps second guessing his instincts because of how he fought his offensive instincts to play a defensive game.

There are definite flashes of the offensive instincts for sure. We see that on the PK. But I also think he's struggling with the centre responsibilities alongside NHL transition and sewing his offense and defense together. I really want to see Janko stand beside Backlund to see if Backlund can show him how to put it all together the same way Backlund took a while to put it all together.

Maybe...

JG -Mony - Bennett (I know Luna will hate this)
Janko - Backlund - Frolik (Assuming no move due to Tkachuk bridge)
Lucic - Lindholm - Tkachuk (Pay ranking of centres, insulation of these guys due to no known chemistry of pairings)
Dube- Ryan - Czarnik (Undersized group with some bite?)

I mean, this is a pretty crazy line blender... Maybe bits and pieces of this will be experimented with, but not all?

But my thoughts are this... IF Janko starts piecing things together and Bennett really isn't working out on the top line as Luna predicts...

JG - Mony - Lindholm
Dube/Lucic - Backlund - Frolik
Lucic/Bennett - Janko - Tkachuk (Demanding Tkachuk start stirring the drink on a line)
Dube/Bennett - Ryan - Czarnik

Could this work too if Janko becomes more passable at 5v5 centre play?


I find it amazing how there are so many line combos that could potentially "fit" depending on how things work. It's kinda exciting to discuss from a coaching perspective. Something I don't think we've even had an inkling could be a fund discussion since even Hartley and earlier (who did line blenders mainly due to desperation, not due to experimentation). TBH, the only guy who maybe had an idea how player slotting should have worked... Darryl Sutter. But his coaches didn't have a damn clue how to use the guys he acquired.

 

[Lunatik]

Yeah, I remember the Brown flipping bit too. But it seemed so odd at the time. Why would we do that when keeping Brown and flipping an excess LW makes more sense? (ie: Janko/Mango etc.)

The rumored trade with TO looked reasonable, but TO made out like bandits on the Colorado trade with Barrie. Colorado must really have undervalued their guys.

On the topic of TO, I just realized Klimchuk is with the Sens now.

I think flipping Borwn was instead of trading Frolik. Flipping him would have made our cap saving on teh deal about 1.75m, while holing onto him would have seen us add about 500k

 

[Lunatik]

I guess to be fair, Colorado didn't really have an acquisition cost for Kerfoot. They got him for free. Flames spent a pick and a ton of time developing Janko.

Now, an odd thing I wonder about Janko though, is that he was drafted for his offensive creativity and acumen, but his defensive game was super weak. So he went to Union College to work on his defensive game and leadership. I think he's struggling to put things together right now, but if we are patient, we will have a good one. However, I can't help but think that his focus on the defensive side of the game is causing problems for his offense to reappear. I think he's kinda like Bennett and Baertschi right now in that he keeps second guessing his instincts because of how he fought his offensive instincts to play a defensive game.

There are definite flashes of the offensive instincts for sure. We see that on the PK. But I also think he's struggling with the centre responsibilities alongside NHL transition and sewing his offense and defense together. I really want to see Janko stand beside Backlund to see if Backlund can show him how to put it all together the same way Backlund took a while to put it all together.

Maybe...

JG -Mony - Bennett (I know Luna will hate this)
Janko - Backlund - Frolik (Assuming no move due to Tkachuk bridge)
Lucic - Lindholm - Tkachuk (Pay ranking of centres, insulation of these guys due to no known chemistry of pairings)
Dube- Ryan - Czarnik (Undersized group with some bite?)

I mean, this is a pretty crazy line blender... Maybe bits and pieces of this will be experimented with, but not all?

But my thoughts are this... IF Janko starts piecing things together and Bennett really isn't working out on the top line as Luna predicts...

JG - Mony - Lindholm
Dube/Lucic - Backlund - Frolik
Lucic/Bennett - Janko - Tkachuk (Demanding Tkachuk start stirring the drink on a line)
Dube/Bennett - Ryan - Czarnik

Could this work too if Janko becomes more passable at 5v5 centre play?


I find it amazing how there are so many line combos that could potentially "fit" depending on how things work. It's kinda exciting to discuss from a coaching perspective. Something I don't think we've even had an inkling could be a fund discussion since even Hartley and earlier (who did line blenders mainly due to desperation, not due to experimentation). TBH, the only guy who maybe had an idea how player slotting should have worked... Darryl Sutter. But his coaches didn't have a damn clue how to use the guys he acquired.

I don't know what I hate more, Bennett on the top line, or you calling Providence College by the wrong name

 

[Rangediddy]

I don't know what I hate more, Bennett on the top line, or you calling Providence College by the wrong name

Getting a US College name wrong gets your goat, but having Tkachuk on the 3rd line doesn't?

 

[Lunatik]

Getting a US College name wrong gets your goat, but having Tkachuk on the 3rd line doesn't?

just because he is listed as 3rd line, doesn't mean much. Any line with Tkachuk will be our #2 line (unless he plays with Gaudreau & Monahan)

 

[Fig]

I don't know what I hate more, Bennett on the top line, or you calling Providence College by the wrong name

Not going to lie, my mind is very off lately. Major mistakes in my reading comprehension while scanning Janko's wiki to proof my info. That's my bad. I know you hate Bennett in the top 6, and I know you don't agree with me, but IMO this is a mentality that goes all the way back to Elliott. I had mentioned that the dude should be allowed all the necessary rope to hang himself so there would be no doubt. I'm suggesting the same and hoping he grasps bits and pieces of what made Ferland successful with JG/Mony. If he succeeds, great.


OT: Mentally I'm not in the right space and I haven't felt like it for months. Not mental health bad, but more like major issues ranging from lack of rest or burnout (sleeping, but not feeling rested) and ADD going haywire ranging from crazy noise to dial tone. Hopefully it'll clear out soon ish.

I was diagnosed adult ADD last year and TBH, the medication kinda helps, but I kinda hate the medication as well. After taking it, mentally I feel like I'm going from days of college house party white noise in my head to hearing echoes of my own voice in a void. It's generally why I have tons of walls of texts. The mind just churns theoretical information in branches and the worst case is that I feel loopy at times because I can never remember whether it was just in my head or if I had said things already. Wife constantly mentions that I repeat things when on the drugs.

I did speak to a doctor about the medication and he thinks that taking it regularly would actually help... but I'm actually hesitant in doing so. A part of the side effect is mood swings and I find angry trains of thought just suddenly accumulate if I take the medication for more than 3 days in a row. I generally take the medication 1-3 times a week for work reasons only, specifically only when there's client meetings that I have to actually be able to not fight to brain ADD tune out.

But enough of my blah. I am not looking for sympathy or anything. But yeah, I feel like there's been more mistakes than normal lately.

I think flipping Borwn was instead of trading Frolik. Flipping him would have made our cap saving on teh deal about 1.75m, while holing onto him would have seen us add about 500k

Ok, so in that deal...

Salary out: 4.65 + 1.675 = 6.325
Salary in: 4.5 + 2.1 = 6.6

Wouldn't flipping Brown = 2.375 cap space? Swapping Mangiapane instead or something would be an overall savings of... 1.5? That would have allowed approx 8 mil AAV for Tkachuk? Or is my maths wrong?

Getting a US College name wrong gets your goat, but having Tkachuk on the 3rd line doesn't?

It's not a typical 3rd line TBH, it'd be closer to a 2nd line in the same way Pittsburgh put Kessel on the 3rd line to spread the talent via top 9.

 

[Lunatik]

Not going to lie, my mind is very off lately. Major mistakes in my reading comprehension while scanning Janko's wiki to proof my info. That's my bad. I know you hate Bennett in the top 6, and I know you don't agree with me, but IMO this is a mentality that goes all the way back to Elliott. I had mentioned that the dude should be allowed all the necessary rope to hang himself so there would be no doubt. I'm suggesting the same and hoping he grasps bits and pieces of what made Ferland successful with JG/Mony. If he succeeds, great.


OT: Mentally I'm not in the right space and I haven't felt like it for months. Not mental health bad, but more like major issues ranging from lack of rest or burnout (sleeping, but not feeling rested) and ADD going haywire ranging from crazy noise to dial tone. Hopefully it'll clear out soon ish.

I was diagnosed adult ADD last year and TBH, the medication kinda helps, but I kinda hate the medication as well. After taking it, mentally I feel like I'm going from days of college house party white noise in my head to hearing echoes of my own voice in a void. It's generally why I have tons of walls of texts. The mind just churns theoretical information in branches and the worst case is that I feel loopy at times because I can never remember whether it was just in my head or if I had said things already. Wife constantly mentions that I repeat things when on the drugs.

I did speak to a doctor about the medication and he thinks that taking it regularly would actually help... but I'm actually hesitant in doing so. A part of the side effect is mood swings and I find angry trains of thought just suddenly accumulate if I take the medication for more than 3 days in a row. I generally take the medication 1-3 times a week for work reasons only, specifically only when there's client meetings that I have to actually be able to not fight to brain ADD tune out.

But enough of my blah. I am not looking for sympathy or anything. But yeah, I feel like there's been more mistakes than normal lately.



Ok, so in that deal...

Salary out: 4.65 + 1.675 = 6.325
Salary in: 4.5 + 2.1 = 6.6

Wouldn't flipping Brown = 2.375 cap space? Swapping Mangiapane instead or something would be an overall savings of... 1.5? That would have allowed approx 8 mil AAV for Tkachuk? Or is my maths wrong?

I'm sorry you are dealing with that Figgy, I was just trying to tease about the mistake in colleges, as I know we had someone from Union (Jooris? Van Brabant?)

Also, I myself have Bennett penciled in on the 2nd line if we move Frolik. But, Bennett on the top line is an absolute mistake. You do not put a sub-30 point player on the top line when you want to be a contender, especially when your top line was arguably the best in the entire league last year. Lindholm at center, especially if Frolik is out is a huge mistake because it absolutely bastardizes our RW depth.

Your math is correct on Brown, I was just trying to ballpark it without actually looking up cap hits or use a calculator

 

[Fig]

I'm sorry you are dealing with that Figgy, I was just trying to tease about the mistake in colleges, as I know we had someone from Union (Jooris? Van Brabant?)

Also, I myself have Bennett penciled in on the 2nd line if we move Frolik. But, Bennett on the top line is an absolute mistake. You do not put a sub-30 point player on the top line when you want to be a contender, especially when your top line was arguably the best in the entire league last year. Lindholm at center, especially if Frolik is out is a huge mistake because it absolutely bastardizes our RW depth.

Your math is correct on Brown, I was just trying to ballpark it without actually looking up cap hits or use a calculator

Eh, I was a bit harsh on myself. Overall, I am fine. Just more annoyed at myself and circumstances than anything. It seemed super silly I got the college name wrong even after I quickly checked it.

TBH, I don't disagree with your opinion of putting Bennett on the top line. Logically, it seems silly to approach things that way. And yet... we have a ton of history of doing things like that. IIRC guys like Jooris, Chiasson, Ferland and even Bennett was plucked from the bottom 6 to be tried out as the 1RW. It is for that reason and not reasons of Sam Bennett himself that I think he deserves a shot to see if he can pull together a reasonable partnership with those guys on the top line. I also think that we should juggle a few guys and toss them on the 3rd line to see if we can develop another top 6 calibre line to roll a stronger top 9. Bennett is no difference, the top line would just be one of several potential landing spots when the lines are blended.

Our RW options are barely better than what we had in 2015 and the team has learned to play reasonably well without a decent selection of RHS RW. TBH, I've also been crazily curious as to whether moving Ryan up to the top line to play 1RW would be a viable option as well if Lindholm goes to 3C as an experiment to try and create a top 6 line. I'm curious about options. If we can experiment early and find more line combinations, I think that's a hell of a thing to have in the back pocket for Peters to pull out if he needs to jump start certain players or revise the lines to address certain weaknesses when playing certain teams.

 

[Lunatik]

Eh, I was a bit harsh on myself. Overall, I am fine. Just more annoyed at myself and circumstances than anything. It seemed super silly I got the college name wrong even after I quickly checked it.

TBH, I don't disagree with your opinion of putting Bennett on the top line. Logically, it seems silly to approach things that way. And yet... we have a ton of history of doing things like that. IIRC guys like Jooris, Chiasson, Ferland and even Bennett was plucked from the bottom 6 to be tried out as the 1RW. It is for that reason and not reasons of Sam Bennett himself that I think he deserves a shot to see if he can pull together a reasonable partnership with those guys on the top line. I also think that we should juggle a few guys and toss them on the 3rd line to see if we can develop another top 6 calibre line to roll a stronger top 9. Bennett is no difference, the top line would just be one of several potential landing spots when the lines are blended.

Our RW options are barely better than what we had in 2015 and the team has learned to play reasonably well without a decent selection of RHS RW. TBH, I've also been crazily curious as to whether moving Ryan up to the top line to play 1RW would be a viable option as well if Lindholm goes to 3C as an experiment to try and create a top 6 line. I'm curious about options. If we can experiment early and find more line combinations, I think that's a hell of a thing to have in the back pocket for Peters to pull out if he needs to jump start certain players or revise the lines to address certain weaknesses when playing certain teams.

I have never complained about in-game line juggling and trying things, as long as said players are having strong games. Hell if Lucic is having a strong game and the top line isn't, throw him out there with Gaudreau and Monahan, see what happens. But you can't experiment too much and risk hurting yourself when you have combinations that work.

 

[DFF]

I guaranty this is Bennett break out year...like lindholm last year








Or he'll become the next Blake Comeau

 

[Nanuuk]

Bennett has top 6 talent. He has been learning the game the first 4 years and is ready to shine as a left winger. Trouble is LW is a strength and the top two spots are taken.

I still think he has what is takes to be a 2C though. Benny has had 3 different coaches in 4 years and for 3 of those years the Flames insisted on playing Rajn Stajn at 4C instead of trying to bring the kid along. He got spot duty at C and was never really given a chance. Yet no complaints, he just soldiers on.

Can he successfully adapt as a RW? I don't think he can and I hope I am wrong. If he does that solves one RW problem for the Flames.

Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand, re-signing a healthy Stone opens up many options for the Flames. The Flames don't have to rush Yelesin before he is ready. The Flames could trade one of Brodie/Hamonic to free up cap space. Stone can play LD/RD or 5/6 or 3/4 if need be. He has size and doesn't skate badly for a big man. He adds grit and has a whale of a slapshot. He's a team player with a young family and his sister-in-law and brother-in-law and their family live in Calgary. At about $1.8M (including the buyout) he is much greater value than the 3.5M that caused the buy-out. I wouldn't be surprised to see him re-sign at ~700K next year as well.

 

[Fig]

Bennett has top 6 talent. He has been learning the game the first 4 years and is ready to shine as a left winger. Trouble is LW is a strength and the top two spots are taken.

I still think he has what is takes to be a 2C though. Benny has had 3 different coaches in 4 years and for 3 of those years the Flames insisted on playing Rajn Stajn at 4C instead of trying to bring the kid along. He got spot duty at C and was never really given a chance. Yet no complaints, he just soldiers on.

Can he successfully adapt as a RW? I don't think he can and I hope I am wrong. If he does that solves one RW problem for the Flames.

What? Bennett was played at 3C multiple times and just couldn't hack it, so he was moved to LW and other guys like Janko, Granlund etc. were given a shot at developing at C. He was definitely given a shot to play at C, but just couldn't figure out how to use his linemates.

 

[Lunatik]

What? Bennett was played at 3C multiple times and just couldn't hack it, so he was moved to LW and other guys like Janko, Granlund etc. were given a shot at developing at C. He was definitely given a shot to play at C, but just couldn't figure out how to use his linemates.

Yeah, Bennett played half a season at LW with Backlund and Frolik before being the regular 3C until Janko was recalled and pushed him to the wing.

 

[Nanuuk]

What? Bennett was played at 3C multiple times and just couldn't hack it, so he was moved to LW and other guys like Janko, Granlund etc. were given a shot at developing at C. He was definitely given a shot to play at C, but just couldn't figure out how to use his linemates.

Not for any length of time. Don't forget he should have seen time in the A in order to develop. Playing him sporadically and not for a full season so he could take his lumps and develop has hurt the Flames. Now he is older, mature, and experienced. He could use his speed and grit to great effect and solve a problem for the Flames.

 

[Lunatik]

Not for any length of time. Don't forget he should have seen time in the A in order to develop. Playing him sporadically and not for a full season so he could take his lumps and develop has hurt the Flames. Now he is older, mature, and experienced. He could use his speed and grit to great effect and solve a problem for the Flames.

Bennett was the #3C for a season and a half (Jan '16 to Nov '17) and Bennett was ineligible for the AHL when he started playing for the Flames. You're trying to make an argument and you don't even have any facts right.

 

[Nanuuk]

Bennett was the #3C for a season and a half (Jan '16 to Nov '17) and Bennett was ineligible for the AHL when he started playing for the Flames. You're trying to make an argument and you don't even have any facts right.

Maybe I'm getting old and senile, but I do not believe he played at 3C for that length of time. You'd have to show me your 'facts' first. But, for the sake of argument, let's say he did. Year 2 in the bigs. Whoope-de-do.

Who were his line-mates? What D was on the ice when he was? Who was in goal? What defensive system (or lack thereof) was being used? In 2016, he was just 20 years old without the benefit of spending any time in the AHL. Now he is 23. The Flames have a much better D, stronger forwards, better goalies and better coaches. Bennett cannot beat out Gaudreau or Tkachuk at LW. Lucic has the 3rd spot (for now), Mangiapane (if the little shit isn't traded first) and Dube are in the wings. At RW, we have Lindholm (who is also an intriguing prospective centre), Frolik (who may not be long for the Flames) and then not too much. Lindholm without a doubt is a better RW than Bennett. So is Gaudreau as far as that goes. Czarnik too. Moving Mangiapane or Dube over to the right side is just as experimental as playing Bennett at centre.

So we're still overstocked at LW, understocked at C and RW and understocked with right hand shots. What's your solution?

 

[GumbyCan2]

That's illegal!

Nice cheap depth move though.

SCAMMERS delight, alright! Like it.

 

[GumbyCan2]

I’m not going to be entirely surprised personally if we move Brodie.

I agree. Rasmus A is ready for a bigger role, now! Put him beside Gio andcruise right along. Brodie could bring us a good prospect and higher draft pick, plus free up space to get Tkachuk signed up now!

 

[GumbyCan2]

Okay, so admitedly Brodie has been a hot pile of poo away from Gio, but what I've listed below looks like a solid 6:

Giordano - Andersson (23 minutes)
Hanifin - Hamonic (21 minutes)
Brodie - Stone (16 minutes)

Hmmm...interesting. But how do sign Tkachuk, with monopoly $$ funny money? Brodie or Forlik are g going to have to go, unfortunately, or loseTkachuk for the season, possibly. YUCK.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Eh, I was a bit harsh on myself. Overall, I am fine. Just more annoyed at myself and circumstances than anything. It seemed super silly I got the college name wrong even after I quickly checked it.

TBH, I don't disagree with your opinion of putting Bennett on the top line. Logically, it seems silly to approach things that way. And yet... we have a ton of history of doing things like that. IIRC guys like Jooris, Chiasson, Ferland and even Bennett was plucked from the bottom 6 to be tried out as the 1RW. It is for that reason and not reasons of Sam Bennett himself that I think he deserves a shot to see if he can pull together a reasonable partnership with those guys on the top line. I also think that we should juggle a few guys and toss them on the 3rd line to see if we can develop another top 6 calibre line to roll a stronger top 9. Bennett is no difference, the top line would just be one of several potential landing spots when the lines are blended.

Our RW options are barely better than what we had in 2015 and the team has learned to play reasonably well without a decent selection of RHS RW. TBH, I've also been crazily curious as to whether moving Ryan up to the top line to play 1RW would be a viable option as well if Lindholm goes to 3C as an experiment to try and create a top 6 line. I'm curious about options. If we can experiment early and find more line combinations, I think that's a hell of a thing to have in the back pocket for Peters to pull out if he needs to jump start certain players or revise the lines to address certain weaknesses when playing certain teams.

Not to worry, guys. Tre found Devante Smith-Pelly on a professional tryout., to the rescue! Trade Tkachuk to WPG for Laine! Solves ours shortcomings!