Confirmed with Link: Flames Recall MATTHEW PHILLIPS

[OvermanKingGainer]

…we quite literally have two examples on our team in the previous season and a half, where Kylington was benched an ENTIRE season and played the next one a changed man, and Ruzicka who went from a bottom liner putting up respectable numbers with effort and consistency issues, and who struggled using his size as an advantage, to this offensive tank we have today. Just last game he had two examples of just pushing his hip into someone and sending them flying to maintain puck control and pushing his man off the puck to cause our game winner. Find one example of that happening last year. Your also currently talking about the development path of Shane Wright so far by the way for examples on other teams, I’d bet you a fair amount of money he turns out alright.

Do you think the guys who dont play just fly around and eat popcorn? You participate in line drills, battle plays, system/special team set ups, as well as all the behind the scene work. “NHL coaches don’t develop players” tells me you honestly think a coaches job stops at putting together lines, and literally all that happens is the games you see on TV. Putting together lines and actually coaching a hockey game is like 10-20% of the role. Honest question, have you ever played in a competitive hockey league?

Also Lucic played 5 minutes last night, has any of Dube, Ruzicka or any young player ever gotten that treatment from Sutter? Or is Lucic just younger than I realized?

lmao

"changed man"

Maybe Kylington played the next one with Chris Tanev and an actual opportunity. Imagine thinking the Kylington benching was justified.

Maybe Ruzicka played the next one with Lindholm and Toffoli, instead of centering Lucic and Lewis.

Kylington has been our organization's best defenseman outside of GIo/Brodie since 2018. Period. Sutter did not develop him at all. No player develops in the f***ing press box. And yes Kylington has never not been better than Rasmus Andersson. The only reason Andersson took off is because he got to play with Giordano as a rookie instead of with Dalton Prust or whatever his name was

And Ruzicka's "consistency issues" are a myth. Guy was centering Dube and Toffoli last year and giving us an actual third line, and then we make a trade for Jarnkrok in order to go into the playoffs without a third line because we benched Ruzicka for a fancy veteran toy.

The confirmation bias is strong in this one.

Lemme guess, Sutter developed Sam Bennett too.

 

[Yepthatsme]

lmao

"changed man"

Maybe Kylington played the next one with Chris Tanev and an actual opportunity. Imagine thinking the Kylington benching was justified.

Maybe Ruzicka played the next one with Lindholm and Toffoli, instead of centering Lucic and Lewis.

Kylington has been our organization's best defenseman outside of GIo/Brodie since 2018. Period. Sutter did not develop him at all. No player develops in the f***ing press box. And yes Kylington has never not been better than Rasmus Andersson. The only reason Andersson took off is because he got to play with Giordano as a rookie instead of with Dalton Prust or whatever his name was

And Ruzicka's "consistency issues" are a myth. Guy was centering Dube and Toffoli last year and giving us an actual third line, and then we make a trade for Jarnkrok in order to go into the playoffs without a third line because we benched Ruzicka for a fancy veteran toy.

The confirmation bias is strong in this one.

Lemme guess, Sutter developed Sam Bennett too.

In 2019-20 Kylington played almost exclusively with Andersson or Stone. Weird how we have had a lot of players look fantastic doing that, but our best defenseman not named Gio or Brodie put up a paltry 7 points and a -6 in that role. Zadorov is currently looking better with Stone than Kylington ever did for comparison’s sake. Then after a season of staying with the roster but not playing he came back as a high 30 point defenseman who contributed way more positives while insanely cuttting down on his costly turnovers.

I also suppose in that role Ruzicka played on that 3rd line with Mangiapane-Toffoli (the actual third line he centered) he was a PPG+ player? Because he instantly was that on our new third line with Backlund and Coleman, and Mangiapane/Toffoli are much better offensive players. Or did he have 1 point in 3 games before the trade that shook the lines up? Almost sounds like he’s improved since then. Also his consistency issues are a myth? Instead of quoting you every scouting report ever from people who are paid to do so, I’ll just remind you of his 2020-21 AHL season where he had 12 points in 4 games, followed by 9 in 24 games.

I’m sorry man, but you are the wrong person to try and quote confirmation bias. You make an opinion then see whatever you need to see for years to stick with it.

 

[Kranix]

Do you think the AHL is obsolete, or that somehow the guys that succeed have to be the middle-tier AHLers only? Genuinely, what is your beef with Phillips beyond people just thinking he (clearly) deserves a chance? What's the point of a development league in your eyes, when it's worthless for a young player to lead a league full of men in major offensive categories for 2 years straight?

I have no beef with Phillips, and no opinion of whether he should be up or down. My beef was with the claim that he deserves anything based on his ppg average in the AHL, and the claim of anti-small bias. I've said all along I haven't seen Phillips' individual rates for the season, and I would love to see them. I'm sure they're good by AHL standards. My point was that whatever evaluators saw in him they didn't think was good enough and that the screams for him to "get a shot" were utterly silly.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

In 2019-20 Kylington

Stopped reading there. Geoff Ward's shitty systems tanked every single player on the roster.

 

[super6646]

Stopped reading there. Geoff Ward's shitty systems tanked every single player on the roster.

I mean… tbh… I don’t think his “systems” were all that different from what peters ran, at least until the playoffs. Peters was also the coach for the first 25 games of the season too.

I agree though that kylington succeeded in spite of the org.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Stopped reading there. Geoff Ward's shitty systems tanked every single player on the roster.

I’m sorry that line was so traumatic for you that it gave you a great excuse to ignore facts that went against your preconceived beliefs (confirmation bias in full force). Can I interest you in 2018-19 Kylington who once again played 2/3 of his time with Andersson to the tune of 8 points, or 2020-21 where his limited play time was once again with Stone or with Valimaki, and managed a single point? You can add that all up to 15 points in 94 games on the third pair, production worse than Stone, Gudbranson, Zadorov etc. It’s almost like he developed since then or something.

3 separate NHL coaches looked at him and decided he wasn’t ready. He also went on waivers, and the rest of the leagues pro scouts decided he wasn’t ready. Then instead of being sent down, he stayed up as an extra for a season working with NHLers and our coaching staff. Then he started turning heads, and our dinosaur rewarded him with top 4 minutes from game 3 of the season on.

 

[super6646]

I’m sorry that line was so traumatic for you that it gave you a great excuse to ignore facts that went against your preconceived beliefs (confirmation bias in full force). Can I interest you in 2018-19 Kylington who once again played 2/3 of his time with Andersson to the tune of 8 points, or 2020-21 where his limited play time was once again with Stone or with Valimaki, and managed a single point? You can add that all up to 15 points in 94 games on the third pair, production worse than Stone, Gudbranson, Zadorov etc. It’s almost like he developed since then or something.

3 separate NHL coaches looked at him and decided he wasn’t ready. He also went on waivers, and the rest of the leagues pro scouts decided he wasn’t ready. Then instead of being sent down, he stayed up as an extra for a season working with NHLers and our coaching staff. Then he started turning heads, and our dinosaur rewarded him with top 4 minutes from game 3 of the season on.

I mean... those 8 pts were in 38 games without any PP time whatsoever. Not bad for a third pairing dman in his first NHL season. Andersson got 19 pts and saw deployment on PP2.

As for your second point, well this was a pretty major mistake on the part of every other team in the league. I thought for sure he would be claimed, and him turning into a top 4 dman proves that point right.

As for your third point, he absolutely blew the doors open at training camp and was rewarded with 3 minutes TOI in his first game of the season. Remember that it was Zadorov absolutely blowing chunks that FORCED Sutter's hand. If Zadorov is passable in a top 4 role there is no guarantee Kylington ever gets that opportunity.

The team shouldn't have to have their hand forced to play guys. Why did it take a Huberdeau injury to get Ruzicka in our top 9 for example? Until tonight's game is done Kevin Rooney will STILL have more games played than Adam Ruzicka which is just silly. I mean its not as if it requires hindsight to realize that Trevor Lewis or Milan Lucic getting chances in a top 9 role were bad choices to begin with.

 

[Mobiandi]

The treatment of Kylington was idiotic and indefensible and came directly from Treliving

 

[Nanuuk]

It's time to call Darryl Sutter out. That is not a position for Phillips to succeed.

Ah, no it is not.

 

[flames23]

It's time to call Darryl Sutter out. That is not a position for Phillips to succeed.

Is the pressbox better? SUTTDURRRRRR.

 

[Potty John]

Phillips not playing tonight now….

 

[Double Dion]

At this point I don't think any of can be surprised or feel scorned when Coronato doesn't sign with us. I mean would any young player with options want to sign with the Flames?

 

[Boomstick]

I was looking yesterday too. The prices have actually gone up since then. Shoulda jumped on it then.

Good to see another Ontario Flames fan though. My dads side of the fam is all in St. Catharines.

That's pretty awesome. Great location. Close to Buffalo and Toronto.

 

[23Monahan]

Wonder if phillips will play tonight. Playing a fast skilled team where a useless slow guy like lucic who is barely hitting and not fighting and played 5 mins lastnight seems pretty f***ing stupid, yet he has played every game so im sure we will just roll a big shitty 4th line again.

 

[MM917]

At this point I don't think any of can be surprised or feel scorned when Coronato doesn't sign with us. I mean would any young player with options want to sign with the Flames?

He is also going to not sign with every other team that had a chance to get Superstar Phillips and let him pass through waivers? Or the other teams that could have offered anything to get him out of Calgary where he is supposedly not valued for his super star talent?

Any team in the league could have had him for nothing and they all chose not to. Players aren't going to sign with anyone if they let bad players not being good enough dictate where they sign

 

[Dertell]

…we quite literally have two examples on our team in the previous season and a half, where Kylington was benched an ENTIRE season and played the next one a changed man, and Ruzicka who went from a bottom liner putting up respectable numbers with effort and consistency issues, and who struggled using his size as an advantage, to this offensive tank we have today.

both examples of players "growing" are them getting more minutes (including some PP minutes) and scoring as a result. In Kylington's case, it also didn't help he was played with a rotation of clugs instead of, say, Tanev. At one point, Ruzicka had one of the best primary point/60 at 5v5 in the NHL last year and he was adequate defensively, judging stat-wise. Plus, Ruzicka's shooting% wasn't as sky-high as this year which is also a factor tbh.

Do you think the guys who dont play just fly around and eat popcorn? You participate in line drills, battle plays, system/special team set ups, as well as all the behind the scene work. “NHL coaches don’t develop players” tells me you honestly think a coaches job stops at putting together lines, and literally all that happens is the games you see on TV. Putting together lines and actually coaching a hockey game is like 10-20% of the role. Honest question, have you ever played in a competitive hockey league?

if you don't know there's a sizable difference between practices and development, I don't think there's any point in continuing this discussion, especially since you just admitted in a roundabout way deployment has nothing to do with developing any player.

Also Lucic played 5 minutes last night, has any of Dube, Ruzicka or any young player ever gotten that treatment from Sutter? Or is Lucic just younger than I realized?

uh yeah? Ruzicka played 5 minutes against the kraken last month. but I fail to see how that makes sutter look better? he'd rather have 3 lines and a half over benching his man for a better player.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

lmao

"changed man"

Maybe Kylington played the next one with Chris Tanev and an actual opportunity. Imagine thinking the Kylington benching was justified.

Maybe Ruzicka played the next one with Lindholm and Toffoli, instead of centering Lucic and Lewis.

Kylington has been our organization's best defenseman outside of GIo/Brodie since 2018. Period. Sutter did not develop him at all. No player develops in the f***ing press box. And yes Kylington has never not been better than Rasmus Andersson. The only reason Andersson took off is because he got to play with Giordano as a rookie instead of with Dalton Prust or whatever his name was

And Ruzicka's "consistency issues" are a myth. Guy was centering Dube and Toffoli last year and giving us an actual third line, and then we make a trade for Jarnkrok in order to go into the playoffs without a third line because we benched Ruzicka for a fancy veteran toy.

The confirmation bias is strong in this one.

Lemme guess, Sutter developed Sam Bennett too.

Kylington is great but come on. Tanev is far and away the #1 and has been since he came. Rasmus vs. Kylington is silly too, Rasmus is a legit #2 and while Kylington probably has more raw talent he has bigger flaws too - getting bodied down low in the playoffs when Tanev wasn't there to save the day. Kylington could still develop into our best dman and his speed is elite but he isn't close to Tanev rn

 

[Some Other Flame]

Kylington is great but come on. Tanev is far and away the #1 and has been since he came. Rasmus vs. Kylington is silly too, Rasmus is a legit #2 and while Kylington probably has more raw talent he has bigger flaws too - getting bodied down low in the playoffs when Tanev wasn't there to save the day. Kylington could still develop into our best dman and his speed is elite but he isn't close to Tanev rn

It's almost like Kylington was injured in the playoffs

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

It's almost like Kylington was injured in the playoffs

And his partner was the guy everyone wants out of the lineup

Tanev doesn't look so hot this year without Kylington, even though his partner has predominantly been our big veteran acquisition (I actually like Weegar btw)

 

[Deen]

Should put Sutter in the pressbox for a few games.

 

[Double Dion]

That has nothing to do with what you posted or my response.

But I agree with the last line of your post especially how it relates to you.

It has everything to do with it. Are you unable to connect organizational philosophy with individual decisions? Do you not understand conceptual application?

This organization routinely trotted out a player who hasn't scored a goal with his stick for 90 games, beats the puck square and turns like a battleship and didn't give an opportunity to the player dominating the 2nd best league in the world.

Their current PPG leader at the NHL level was sat in favor of this player, Rooney and Lewis.

Lewis has more ice time per game than either Dube or Mangiapane whom Sutter still refers to as "those two young kids." They are 24 and 26. Most organizations call a player young when they are 18 to 22. For us it's a player who is about 1.5 years away from league average age.

 

[MM917]

It has everything to do with it. Are you unable to connect organizational philosophy with individual decisions? Do you not understand conceptual application?

This organization routinely trotted out a player who hasn't scored a goal with his stick for 90 games, beats the puck square and turns like a battleship and didn't give an opportunity to the player dominating the 2nd best league in the world.

Their current PPG leader at the NHL level was sat in favor of this player, Rooney and Lewis.

Lewis has more ice time per game than either Dube or Mangiapane whom Sutter still refers to as "those two young kids." They are 24 and 26. Most organizations call a player young when they are 18 to 22. For us it's a player who is about 1.5 years away from league average age.

It has nothing to do with it because every team has fan bases that whine about the same things. The things you are crying about are no different from other clubs so if that is what prospects are making their decisions about there will be no team they will sign for.

Nobody on our team dominated any league. There is a vast difference between being a leading scorer early on and dominating. That same player was available for free on waivers to every team in the league and they all passed but somehow it is the Flames only who get "blame" for not playing him even though every one else agreed he wasn't NHL material.

Their current PPG leader (super early on in the season) was given 28 games last year when he showed nothing at all, but still has been given chances to leech points off other teammates this year.

This organization gave plenty of time to young players like Monahan, Tkachauk when they showed they were ready and able to handle the NHL, no club outside of maybe Arizona who is trying to leave gives young guys free reign to play when they aren't ready.

Flames fans are jaded because we had Martin St. Louis who is the unicorn of all unicorns. They think that is the likely outcome for a guy like Phillips ignoring the thousands more who were similar and did nothing. Throw in a few more unicorns like Fleury and Gaudreau and the fan base has a warped view of small, supposedly offensive talented players.

Teams aren't winning in the league because they gave crappy young guys chances they didn't deserve. If Coronato makes a decision where to sign based on Matthew dogshit Phillips than he is a moron that likely will have no career in the NHL.

 

[Double Dion]

It has nothing to do with it because every team has fan bases that whine about the same things. The things you are crying about are no different from other clubs so if that is what prospects are making their decisions about there will be no team they will sign for.

Nobody on our team dominated any league. There is a vast difference between being a leading scorer early on and dominating. That same player was available for free on waivers to every team in the league and they all passed but somehow it is the Flames only who get "blame" for not playing him even though every one else agreed he wasn't NHL material.

Their current PPG leader (super early on in the season) was given 28 games last year when he showed nothing at all, but still has been given chances to leech points off other teammates this year.

This organization gave plenty of time to young players like Monahan, Tkachauk when they showed they were ready and able to handle the NHL, no club outside of maybe Arizona who is trying to leave gives young guys free reign to play when they aren't ready.

Flames fans are jaded because we had Martin St. Louis who is the unicorn of all unicorns. They think that is the likely outcome for a guy like Phillips ignoring the thousands more who were similar and did nothing. Throw in a few more unicorns like Fleury and Gaudreau and the fan base has a warped view of small, supposedly offensive talented players.

Teams aren't winning in the league because they gave crappy young guys chances they didn't deserve. If Coronato makes a decision where to sign based on Matthew dogshit Phillips than he is a moron that likely will have no career in the NHL.

Ah yes real objective. Every team in the league had small guys now. Unicorns are rare. Small elite players aren't. Kane, Kaprizov, Point, Gaudreau, Caufield, Kucherov, Bratt, Hughes, Fox etc etc.

You calling him Matthew dogshit Phillips is pretty stupid. The dude isn't just hot at the start of the season. He was a top scorer for 3 straight years now. Whether he can do it in the NHL is unknown because he hasn't been paid the opportunity he's earned.

It would be different if other guys had been given opportunities and the Flames just thought Phillips wasn't ready. They haven't been and the 2 times it finally happened have been homeruns with Kylington and Ruzicka.

If Ruzicka is being carried by other players how come he is outproducing them? How come he had more primary points, more ES points and generates more high danger chances?

The last time young guys were given opportunities predates this coach. Johnny isn't Johnny with this guy.

 

[MM917]

Ah yes real objective. Every team in the league had small guys now. Unicorns are rare. Small elite players aren't. Kane, Kaprizov, Point, Gaudreau, Caufield, Kucherov, Bratt, Hughes, Fox etc etc.

You calling him Matthew dogshit Phillips is pretty stupid. The dude isn't just hot at the start of the season. He was a top scorer for 3 straight years now. Whether he can do it in the NHL is unknown because he hasn't been paid the opportunity he's earned.

It would be different if other guys had been given opportunities and the Flames just thought Phillips wasn't ready. They haven't been and the 2 times it finally happened have been homeruns with Kylington and Ruzicka.

If Ruzicka is being carried by other players how come he is outproducing them? How come he had more primary points, more ES points and generates more high danger chances?

The last time young guys were given opportunities predates this coach. Johnny isn't Johnny with this guy.

No the unicorn aspect of St. Louis isn't his size is that he passed through waivers and went on to have success later in his career. Phillips isn't like any of the guys you listed. He has been judged by the league, not just the Flames to be not NHL ready. He is 24 and nobody has wanted to give him a chance at all despite being able to have him for nothing. I never said small players can't succeed in the NHL but small, players that the NHL has passed on and have done nothing by 24 then going on to quality NHL careers are unicorns.

As for him "earning" his opportunity every team in the league disagrees with you. It is a hot start to the season, especially when you used the term dominate, he has never come close to dominating the AHL and this season would be the only one you could try and make that argument after around 25 games.


There have been zero opportunities for this coach to give young guys chances, zero guys worth it. He was here last year when Ruzicka got 28 games, here this year when Ruzicka has got his chance so he has given guys chances,

And LOL at the idea that Kylington or Ruzicka have been anyhting close to a home run. More silly overhyping of mediocre (at best) players.

 

[Mazatt]

He has been judged by the league, not just the Flames to be not NHL ready. He is 24 and nobody has wanted to give him a chance at all despite being able to have him for nothing.

And LOL at the idea that Kylington or Ruzicka have been anyhting close to a home run. More silly overhyping of mediocre (at best) players.

This stuff here makes it seem like you do no evaluative work yourself. You appeal to authority to back up your points but the authority in the NHL routinely make idiotic moves that have no logic behind them.

Kylington being a legitimate top 4 defensemen that's elite in transition isn't a homerun? Ruzicka leading the team in even strength points isn't a home run? Phillips has no home run potential? And what, because the league that routinely fails to utilize talent until it's too late hasn't decided to utilize them?

Take one solid look around the league. A current top pairing d-man in Gustav Forsling was on the waiver wire prior to becoming who he is today. Valeri Nichushkin was barely wanted leaguewide before breaking out, teams couldn't identify Stephenson as a high potential player other than the guy who drafted him. Meanwhile players like Chiarot, Jones, Skinner, Johansen, etc. get overpaid, but we're supposed to sit here and think that the NHL brain trust of GM's is infallible? Especially when it comes to making the small, periphary improvements when they can't even handle major decisions with any effectiveness? Even up north, Puljujarvi, who fits the mold of the next Nichushkin is getting run out of town in what will obviously be a bad move in hindsight.

Even using Ruzicka's 28 games last year against him is silly when he produced better than other 3C options, and did so by being the one competent member of the 4th line before getting moved up, and goofily replaced by Jarnkrok. Funniest of all its all from the organization that needed Snow to come in to veto their deep trade talks on Ristolainen. To think any GM in the league is perfect, and their evaluation of Phillips or Kylington means anything, is silly.