Flames 'New' Arena II - 'No it's yours, I insist'

[Rubi]

I don't know why people are talking about wanting free transit during Flames games. It's never going to happen.

In the latest development in a story that just won’t stop developing, the Globe and Mail’s Carrie Tait and Al Maki released deals they’ve obtained of the first offer from the Calgary Flames to the City of Calgary regarding the potential future home of the hockey club.
Originally proposed to the City back in February, the Flames’ offer reflects a vision that features a whole lot more than just an arena for the Flames.
According to the Globe’s report, the Flames would have participated financially – presumably with their proposed $275 million contribution – to the construction of a new arena and an adjacent practice arena. In addition, the Flames would be provided the following by the City:

• The construction of a public plaza for festivals and events adjacent to the arena
• The option to buy and develop land adjacent to the arena
• Approval over the Victoria Park redevelopment plan
• Part of the revenue from the Cowboys Casino (which currently goes to the Stampede)
• All of the parking revenues from arena events (which, aside from Flames-owned lots, currently goes to the Stampede)
• The flood insurance, paid for by the City
• The provincial property taxes, covered by the City
• Free transit service for anybody with a ticket to an event at the arena

And remember, the City’s $225 million contribution to the construction of the arena would be, in the Flames proposal, covered by a Community Revitalization Levy (despite that not being what they’re for). In other words, in the Flames’ first offer was that the City would use property taxes to pay for the arena (via the CRL), not charge the arena municipal property taxes (or rent), cover their provincial property taxes, cover transit service for a large number of events a year, cover flood insurance, and give the Flames a large amount of revenue from the non-profit Stampede’s coffers. Oh, and give them significant say over the development in the surrounding area. That’s a lot for the City to give to a commercial enterprise.

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/10/06/the-flames-wanted-a-lot-more-than-just-an-arena/

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Like I said. It's never going to happen. The city wouldn't do that in a million years. It doesn't benefit them or Calgary Transit at all. No other city does this.

Minnesota does, I believe. Don't remember where I learned this useless tidbit of trivia, however.

 

[CamPopplestone]

Stupid idea to try and alleviate congestion and reduce drinking and driving? Calling that a stupid idea is absolutely moronic. I'm not saying the city should necessarily eat the cost, but the idea of free ridership to and from games is actually a very good idea.

The loss of revenue from game nights would result in cuts to residential bus services to make up the difference. No.

 

[FLAMES666]

I drive to the game and park on the grounds. Would I take transit if it was free? I doubt it. I drive because of the convenience not because transit costs too much. Free transit won't change that. Stupid idea.

Such a stupid idea! So stupid I would bet more people take city transit then drive to the game right now. Furthermore it is a lot quicker to get in and out of their taking transit vs sitting in the cluster f*** of a parking lot. But its always nice someone located in Okotoks having an opinion on city transit.

 

[InfinityIggy]

To give a converse opinion, I take transit to the game out of convenience. I can walk to the train from my place, I don’t have to worry about parking or how much I might have to drink.

 

[Lunatik]

Not everyone goes to a game and gets wasted. Probably very few in fact.
By the way, how many people who drink at the game, hop in a car when they get off the c-train? Probably most of them. I doubt too many people walk to the bus stop by their house, wait for a bus, get on the bus to the closest c-train stn, and then proceed to the game from there. .... and then do it all over again to go home.

As far as alleviating congestion, its no worse that a concert. Should the city foot the bill for free transit every time there's a concert or any other big event on the grounds? I think not.

Stupid moronic idea.

And seriously, if you can afford Flames tickets you certainly can afford the $3.25 it costs for a transit ticket.

If you think they few people get drunk at games, I seriously question if you have ever actually attended a game

 

[Anglesmith]

If you think they few people get drunk at games, I seriously question if you have ever actually attended a game

I think there's just two types of people, and each is able to insulate themselves to the extent that they can convince themselves that the other doesn't exist (or barely exists).

Regardless, though, it's a false dichotomy being presented here that people either can drive home or get wasted. A lot of people just don't want to have to limit themselves. I have never driven to a game. When I am thirsty, I get a beer. Generally it's just one a period. With my bachelor party as the exception, I never get drunk. But neither would I be allowed to drive.

 

[Lunatik]

I think there's just two types of people, and each is able to insulate themselves to the extent that they can convince themselves that the other doesn't exist (or barely exists).

Regardless, though, it's a false dichotomy being presented here that people either can drive home or get wasted. A lot of people just don't want to have to limit themselves. I have never driven to a game. When I am thirsty, I get a beer. Generally it's just one a period. With my bachelor party as the exception, I never get drunk. But neither would I be allowed to drive.

All I'm saying is if it helps reduce drinking and driving, it's a good idea. Regardless of the motives behind it.

 

[Anglesmith]

All I'm saying is if it helps reduce drinking and driving, it's a good idea. Regardless of the motives behind it.

I agree with your principle. I'm not sure it applies here, though, because I really don't think that people who drink and drive choose not to take the transit because of the cost. I think it's much more likely because they find it less convenient, or they just don't like not having their car with them when they go somewhere. In the long run, it's probably not cheaper once you factor in parking, is it?

 

[Lunatik]

I agree with your principle. I'm not sure it applies here, though, because I really don't think that people who drink and drive choose not to take the transit because of the cost. I think it's much more likely because they find it less convenient, or they just don't like not having their car with them when they go somewhere. In the long run, it's probably not cheaper once you factor in parking, is it?

I can't speak on the cost of driving, we always take the train whenever I am in town and go to a game. Except the Last time, but @Lazar Beams covered the parking, so he would be the better person to answer that.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

As far as cost, it's cheaper to drive if you have more than two people in the car.

When I lived near the LRT station, parking was an unnecessary luxury as I could be on the train on my way home in the same amount of time it took to exit the parking lots at the Dome.

Drinking isn't really a factor, I've left my car overnight at the Saddledome (in the parkade area) with no trouble. Probably wouldn't have if I was parked in the regular parking area with the riff-raff.

Frankly drinking and driving isn't going to be solved with free transit or less parking; it's a bad decision in and of itself and will be made regardless of where you parked.

 

[djpatm]

Also imagine how busy the trains home would be? Not like you can increase capacity as it would be free.

Also, I totally believe people go to the games and don't get wasted. They're called underage and elderly.

 

[Calculon]

Looks like [mod] Nenshi getting a third term.

Will be very interesting to see how the Flames sulk and pout respond. Some of the tweets from their employees already making for great fodder.

 

[Anglesmith]

Guys, we can discuss the arena negotiations in here, but still no politics. It's a tricky balance to strike, but you can do it.

 

[DomBarr]

now the election is done the real negotiating will take place. there was never going to be a finalized arena deal with the mayor and council having so little mandate left and so soon to the election.

 

[InfinityIggy]

now the election is done the real negotiating will take place. there was never going to be a finalized arena deal with the mayor and council having so little mandate left and so soon to the election.

Yes it will be interesting to see the direction this starts to turn in. I wonder if we see some-sort of renewed negotiations right away, or (more likely) we see the King and Co. start 'touring' places like Seattle and Houston.

 

[Mobiandi]

For now, the worst CSEC can do is stick to their playbook and continue posturing and fear-mongering.

The clock is ticking though, and if Calgary pulls out or loses their bid for the Olympics (which might be for the best, anyway, considering the IOC is...the IOC) and there is still no progress in negotiations by this time, then the possibility of relocation becomes a hell of a lot more real.

 

[GuitarGuy]

Well, we can now say goodbye to the Flames.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

So apparently Sean Kelso, Flames media guy (I think he’s at the top).

Said Nenshi was worse then Trump on Twitter... could Flames ownership/management get any dumber?

 

[Bosnian Beast]

So apparently Sean Kelso, Flames media guy (I think he’s at the top).

Said Nenshi was worse then Trump on Twitter... could Flames ownership/management get any dumber?

Definitely no apparent in there. Kelso tweeted that Calgary was going to regret it, and did, in fact, say that Nenshi is worse than Trump. Once the tweet caught fire, he deleted it but it was too little, too late. I would say it could be expected that he won't be the Flames media guy for much longer, but given how King handled himself and the Flames position during the election, he might actually be up for a promotion.

Edit: Here it is.

 

[herashak]

Yeah the flames are out of touch. But the ticket being valid for free transit fare is a pretty good idea, especially if the tickets are including a stadium tax in the price. There will be two lines withing walking distance of the Victoria park spot so there won't be insane crowding on the trains.

 

[tfong]

Did the flames release any kind of statement about it?

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Lunatik]

So apparently Sean Kelso, Flames media guy (I think he’s at the top).

Said Nenshi was worse then Trump on Twitter... could Flames ownership/management get any dumber?

That is his own personal twitter, his opinion. Blaming the Flames for that is rather unfair.

 

[Otzelor]

As a citizen of Klagenfurt, who´s city was "fortunate" enough to host the European Championship of Football in 2008 (Austria and Switzerland) I am proud of your election results. Your major is gonna get you (taxpaxers) a good deal, that won´t damage your cities finances. To me as a neutral spectator all CSEC did sounded like a plot to get themselves a candidate (Smith or whatever his name was) that would have offered them a deal in their benefit and to your loss. Due to bad politcians Klagenfurt (and the state aswell) has amassed debt, that most likely won´t even by paid off by my death (and I am currently 19 years old, so there´s some time left hopefully ).

If you think that the Flames are going to move, you´re delusional. No other city would show such support for a hockey team as you guys and no other city would be able to populate an arena as well as you guys.
If Houston/Seattle will get a team it would most likely be through expansion in 2 years, before the current cba expires. And my personal guess is that the owner of the Astros is going to spent 500-700mill to get the 32nd team in the league, so both conferences could finally be balanced.
So don´t be scared, I am atleast 90% sure, that a new arena deal will get struck before the 2019 offseason.

(sorry for grammatical errors, its 3 am here --- and to the mods: if its to political (even tho i´m not involved in your politics, please edit and don´t delete, thanks )