Flames moving affiliate from Stockton

[GKJ]

The Flames (and Oilers for that matter), only have their affiliates where they are because of the westward expansion of the AHL that was desired along with the increased convenience of having those markets close together, and while the Kings and Ducks were able to set up their AHL markets at satellites, there's much less invested in Stockton for Calgary, but having an established market and infrastructure was more optimal to operate in. Now add in you've had other teams move add affiliates out west, there's now a more palatable path to spread out.

Flames tried this once before with Abbotsford but they were an island then. Kind of still are now, but maybe now won't be if the working idea is having the Flames AHL team closer. Coachella Valley going to Seattle was probably the first clue that this was coming sooner than later, because I don't think it made much sense for Seattle's AHL team to not be close to home.

 

[JMCx4]

If you were a city leader who was contacted by the Calgary Flames organization to enquire about making a home for their AHL affiliate, wouldn't you be at least a wee bit inclined to say: "No thanks, we're waiting for a call from the FPHL."?

 

[RetroWinnipeg]

If the rumors are what they are: Calgary will likely join Winnipeg as cities with NHL, AHL, and WHL teams in the same market. It seemed laughable when Winnipeg attempted the 3-in-1 starting in 2019, but this seems to be the model going forward.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

If the rumors are what they are: Calgary will likely join Winnipeg as cities with NHL, AHL, and WHL teams in the same market. It seemed laughable when Winnipeg attempted the 3-in-1 starting in 2019, but this seems to be the model going forward.

It’s not a great model from a business perspective especially for small markets like Winnipeg. The AHL club being in the same arena dilutes the demand for the NHL tickets by giving people a way to see professional hockey at a lower price.

 

[JMCx4]

It’s not a great model from a business perspective especially for small markets like Winnipeg. The AHL club being in the same arena dilutes the demand for the NHL tickets by giving people a way to see professional hockey at a lower price.

Or another perspective: It gives area hockey fans already priced out of the NHL ticket market an opportunity to increase the parent club's annual income by AHL ticket sales & whatever concession cuts the team gets.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

If the rumors are what they are: Calgary will likely join Winnipeg as cities with NHL, AHL, and WHL teams in the same market. It seemed laughable when Winnipeg attempted the 3-in-1 starting in 2019, but this seems to be the model going forward.

Considering only one market is doing it, and is struggling with it to the point where they are still actively looking for another market for the Moose after Thunder Bay fell through, and only Calgary is considering doing it, I would not say at all that it is the model going forward...

 

[CrazyEddie20]

The Flames meant well in Stockton I'm sure, but when they hired Petrovek you knew it was just a matter of time until there were problems in that market.

It's amazing how he managed to run a franchise into the ground, then get another job and do it again. It's almost like the ownership had designs on doing that...

 

[voyageur]

Considering only one market is doing it, and is struggling with it to the point where they are still actively looking for another market for the Moose after Thunder Bay fell through, and only Calgary is considering doing it, I would not say at all that it is the model going forward...

First off Winnipeg is very happy with their arrangement. It's cost controlled, and has been a good way to integrate players into the team and community.

You have to think that at this point you've got Winnipeg, San Jose, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Las Vegas with affiliates in their back yard, and more with affiliates driving distance away, that is the way to operate and save on expenses scouting your affiliate, and making it easier and cheaper to access players from them, that the model is set going forward on operating affiliations in the A. The only obstacle is the NHL owners who have no interest in investing in the A.

I think the next step is promoting some ECHL franchise like Orlando and Atlanta to help the Southern franchises.

I hope Calgary puts their affiliate in Regina, because Regina and Winnipeg are natural rivals, and Regina is closer to Calgary than any US market, and accessible through road and flight.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Calgary makes it official:



That leaves the Oilers as the only Canadian team whose affiliate isn't close.

 

[LadyStanley]

Flames to move AHL affiliate to Calgary

theahl.com

AHL announcement. No arena indicated.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

First off Winnipeg is very happy with their arrangement. It's cost controlled, and has been a good way to integrate players into the team and community.

You have to think that at this point you've got Winnipeg, San Jose, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Las Vegas with affiliates in their back yard, and more with affiliates driving distance away, that is the way to operate and save on expenses scouting your affiliate, and making it easier and cheaper to access players from them, that the model is set going forward on operating affiliations in the A. The only obstacle is the NHL owners who have no interest in investing in the A.

I think the next step is promoting some ECHL franchise like Orlando and Atlanta to help the Southern franchises.

I hope Calgary puts their affiliate in Regina, because Regina and Winnipeg are natural rivals, and Regina is closer to Calgary than any US market, and accessible through road and flight.

If Winnipeg is so happy with the relationship, why did they try to the extent, and then complain to the extent, they did when the Thunder Bay Arena was shot down?

As for Calgary putting their team in Regina, why the heck would it matter what you hope? This is HFBoards, try to focus on facts and what is put out by reliable sources online. Edit: Calgary said they wanted to put the team in Calgary. You hope it goes to Regina for god knows why. Calgary put their AHL team in Calgary. Welcome to reality.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Wonder if this means Edmonton will bring their AHL team closer.

As I see it's going to be in Calgary, I wonder if they might consider something like Airdrie or Lethbridge. I don't know who Red Deer is more likely to cheer for, but it's pretty divided. I think Grande Prairie wouldn't be the worst idea for the Oilers considering most people there are Oilers fans and isn't ideal for Junior. Might even bring Prince George into the AHL conversation.

 

[JMCx4]

... As for Calgary putting their team in Regina, why the heck would it matter what you hope? This is HFBoards, try to focus on facts and what is put out by reliable sources online. ...

When did hopes become banned from HFBoards? @voyageur was clearly expressing a simple wish as a hockey fan, and included rationale to support Regina as a franchise destination (before the relocation to Calgary announcement was posted here). Loosen the chokehold, BD, and let the convo breathe a little.

 

[DoyleG]

When did hopes become banned from HFBoards? @voyageur was clearly expressing a simple wish as a hockey fan, and included rationale to support Regina as a franchise destination (before the relocation to Calgary announcement was posted here). Loosen the chokehold, BD, and let the convo breathe a little.

The thing is that Calgary made the decision knowing their options were extremely limited.

The Rebels lease in Red Deer runs to 2027 while the Hurricanes will be in Lethbridge until 2029. The Tigers signed a long-term lease in 2016 and likely it will last to around the same time frame.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Well hopefully they won't be moving it so much anymore. Was getting ridiculous. LOL @ blaming CSEC for it not working out in the Stockton market tho. 1st place AHL team barely draws 1000 fans. There was no market.

There will definitely be some keeners who go watch the Heat in Calgary. Saddledome is getting crowded with the Flames, Roughnecks, and Hitmen all already playing there. Wonder if they move into Max Bell or one of the other rinks.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I think last year, Flames bringing Stockton to Calgary during the pandemic, which would make recalls and assignments easier with the all Canadian NHL division and all Canadian AHL division made them realize how beneficial it is for NHL teams to have the affiliate at close proximity.

 

[GarbageGoal]

The trend seems to say the Condors will be in Edmonton before long.

 

[voyageur]

When did hopes become banned from HFBoards? @voyageur was clearly expressing a simple wish as a hockey fan, and included rationale to support Regina as a franchise destination (before the relocation to Calgary announcement was posted here). Loosen the chokehold, BD, and let the convo breathe a little.

I don't worry about Barclay, he has a way of being condenscending. I know Chipman was a booster for an AHL franchise in Saskatchewan, not just because of the fan base, but likely travel as well. I wonder if the A considers putting together a Canadian division, if Edmonton relocates their affiliate to Canada as well. In terms of dollars and sense, it costs less if you travel within Canada, and pay for Canadian hotels and services in Canadian dollars. It would give some financial relief to the smaller markets, in terms of operations. And makes it easier to manage the next pandemic or potential border crossing issue.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

The Winnipeg Jets (TNSE) do NOT own the Winnipeg ICE, nor do the ICE play at the Jets' facility. The ICE were purchased by 50 Below Sports as part of their business plan to control the entire minor-to-junior hockey development system in Winnipeg (they also own two Jr. A franchises in Winnipeg). 50 Below has plans to build a 4-5000 seat arena in Winnipeg, though I am not sure where that stands now. The ICE do not draw much of a crowd, but they also play in a terrible facility.

So, Winnipeg's situation is not the same as the Flames bringing their AHL franchise home.

It is untenable to have NHL, AHL, and WHL hockey teams playing in one arena. There are simply not enough dates, and good luck scheduling any concerts. BUT, Calgary has the WINSPORT arena ... WINSPORT has Olympic-sized ice, but could be an easy landing spot for the Hitmen. It actually makes a lot of sense for the Hitmen given it is easily accessible to the large Calgary suburbs. WINSPORT also hosts a lot of women's hockey events, so it makes a lot of sense for the Flames ownership group to host the WHL Hitmen and a pro women's team there in the future.

Edmonton does not have an equivalent 5000 seat arena in the area, although I could envision the Oilers building such a facility in the near future if they wished to relocate their AHL team to Edmonton. They would then move the Oil Kings to that suburban rink, and the AHL team would move into Rogers Place. Not sure where they would build it. At one point it would have made sense on the University of Alberta South Campus as a new home for the UofA teams, but Oilers' owner Daryl Katz had a falling out with the UofA so that seems unlikely.

For anyone who doesn't understand the importance of the WHL in Western Canada, nobody is going to bump a WHL team out of a market for an AHL team. So, you can take Red Deer, Regina, Saskatoon, Medicine Hat, Lethbridge, etc,. out of your conversation. Not going to happen.

 

[jabberoski]

If Winnipeg is so happy with the relationship, why did they try to the extent, and then complain to the extent, they did when the Thunder Bay Arena was shot down?

As for Calgary putting their team in Regina, why the heck would it matter what you hope? This is HFBoards, try to focus on facts and what is put out by reliable sources online. Edit: Calgary said they wanted to put the team in Calgary. You hope it goes to Regina for god knows why. Calgary put their AHL team in Calgary. Welcome to reality.

As a point of clarification here, the Jets explored moving the AHL franchise to Thunder Bay before they placed it back in Winnipeg.

2014 article - Jets exploring move for AHL farm team from Newfoundland to Thunder Bay, Ont.

2021 follow up article - Chipman: AHL was close to landing in Thunder Bay

 

[RetroWinnipeg]

Well hopefully they won't be moving it so much anymore. Was getting ridiculous. LOL @ blaming CSEC for it not working out in the Stockton market tho. 1st place AHL team barely draws 1000 fans. There was no market.

There will definitely be some keeners who go watch the Heat in Calgary. Saddledome is getting crowded with the Flames, Roughnecks, and Hitmen all already playing there. Wonder if they move into Max Bell or one of the other rinks.

The only differential that the Saddledome has compared to other big market facilities is...that it is a saddle dome. And that design makes it difficult for Calgary to attract concerts for arena-sized shows. So maybe a fourth tenant actually helps?

 

[GareFan18]

I'm a little bummed by this news. My daughter is going to go to college in the area and I thought I could catch a game while I'm visiting her.
Man, the Sacramento area is a hockey wasteland. Sacramento/Stockton/Vacaville/Davis area is plenty big enough to host a minor league hockey franchise, but now there is nothing there. I guess I'll drive in to see the Barracuda's new arena.

 

[GindyDraws]

If you were a city leader who was contacted by the Calgary Flames organization to enquire about making a home for their AHL affiliate, wouldn't you be at least a wee bit inclined to say: "No thanks, we're waiting for a call from the FPHL."?

Considering all the markets that the Flames have burned (no pun intended), I don't think it'd be worth the long term hassles of wrecking the viability of your market just for short term gains.

 

[JMCx4]

I'm a little bummed by this news. My daughter is going to go to college in the area and I thought I could catch a game while I'm visiting her.
Man, the Sacramento area is a hockey wasteland. Sacramento/Stockton/Vacaville/Davis area is plenty big enough to host a minor league hockey franchise, but now there is nothing there. I guess I'll drive in to see the Barracuda's new arena.

Pack a lunch if you're making that drive anytime other than the middle of the night.

 

[GareFan18]

Pack a lunch if you're making that drive anytime other than the middle of the night.

Whatevs. That's what satellite radio, the NHL channel, and the Ray & Dregs podcast is for.