Proposal: Flames / Lightning

[Flyer lurker]

I think Tampa is in tight this offseason which is gonna hurt the value of the players but if you don't move someone then I'm pretty sure we will see someone offer Cirelli $4,227,437 and forfeit the 2nd or if they have a late first and don't like the depth of next year's draft going a little higher for the 1st and 3rd and forcing Tampa to make a lopsided trade anyway to match or letting him walk.

IF TBL has to give up Cernak to keep Cirelli at 5 years at 4.25 million sign the papers asap.
Cirelli 6m
Serge 8m
Cernak 4m
That is what you have to offer in an offer sheet. Anything less BOS and TML say thank you but you don't get those players.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Personally I'd rather not move Kadri at all...

Id rather offer something around Byram, or Compher + Newhook

If Byram is included for an offer of Cirelli, then TBL has to legit consider. Compher/Newhook legit offer too.

Thank you for putting out legit offers!

Well done.

 

[HoseEmDown]

If Byram is included for an offer of Cirelli, then TBL has to legit consider. Compher/Newhook legit offer too.

Thank you for putting out legit offers!

Well done.

Tampa would have no interest in Byram. If we were forced to move Cirelli it's because we decided to keep Sergachev instead. With Sergachev, Hedman and McDonagh we have no need for Byram and would be a waste to go for him unless you flip him right away.

Newhook would interest me but I'm not sure what the organization would consider. They already have a smaller skilled top 6C in Point with Newhook being similar. Cirelli isn't big but he brings a different element to the top 6. Mitchell Stephens brings those things Cirelli does but probably tops out as a 3C. So if they think they can run two 5'10 offensive centers in the top 6 it's an option. I wouldn't want any part of Compher though. We have no need for a winger making 3.5M.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Tampa would have no interest in Byram. If we were forced to move Cirelli it's because we decided to keep Sergachev instead. With Sergachev, Hedman and McDonagh we have no need for Byram and would be a waste to go for him unless you flip him right away.

Newhook would interest me but I'm not sure what the organization would consider. They already have a smaller skilled top 6C in Point with Newhook being similar. Cirelli isn't big but he brings a different element to the top 6. Mitchell Stephens brings those things Cirelli does but probably tops out as a 3C. So if they think they can run two 5'10 offensive centers in the top 6 it's an option. I wouldn't want any part of Compher though. We have no need for a winger making 3.5M.

What Byrum or Newhook can add are elc players that can help in a cup run in 2021. And those offers are 100000000 times better than we'll give CAL 1st or MTL 1st or ARI 1st or Butcher plus, etc etc. If I say at end of the day my defense is too good and too deep its not the worst problem. Of all the Cirelli Serge offers in the last 6 months on here they are the closest where u have to go hmmm. And if TBL fans say no all in for 2021 I get it.

 

[HoseEmDown]

What Byrum or Newhook can add are elc players that can help in a cup run in 2021. And those offers are 100000000 times better than we'll give CAL 1st or MTL 1st or ARI 1st or Butcher plus, etc etc. If I say at end of the day my defense is too good and too deep its not the worst problem. Of all the Cirelli Serge offers in the last 6 months on here they are the closest where u have to go hmmm. And if TBL fans say no all in for 2021 I get it.

Byram will play 10 minutes a night if he's lucky on the lightning blueline in 21. If he's playing more than that an producing then his caphit will be much more than 925k as he would be hitting most of his performance bonuses. So he wouldn't be as cheap as he seems. If we are targeting Byram it's because we are trading Sergachev and Byram will eventually replace him as the future top pair D. You would need to make two moves that way.

Maybe we could do Cirelli + 3rd for Byram + Jost. Then flip Sergachev + Paquette for Suzuki + 2nd from Montreal. Get a cheaper Cirelli replacement in Suzuki and Sergachev in Byram. We could possibly keep Killorn in this scenario but still trade him since Jost could be a depth piece for less.

 

[blankall]

Switch Kylington to Valamaki

Johnson=cap dump
Cernarik=Dube and 2nd
Cirelli= Pelletier, Valamaki and 15th overall

Guadreau-Monahan-Lindbholm
Tkachuk-Cirelli-Johnson

Girodano-TJ Bodie ( if room )
Hanfin-Cernarik

WTF? Valamaki is a potential top pairing d-man...plus you want two 1st rounders? That's absurd for a recent 3rd rounder who put up 44 points on an offensively loaded team. I also doubt Cirelli would be all that great on the Flames. The Flames needs a physical net driving centre.

 

[Flameshomer]

WTF? Valamaki is a potential top pairing d-man...plus you want two 1st rounders? That's absurd for a recent 3rd rounder who put up 44 points on an offensively loaded team. I also doubt Cirelli would be all that great on the Flames. The Flames needs a physical net driving centre.

Yeah those prices are ridiculous lol. Just OS one of them. TB will have to make a decision.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Switch Kylington to Valamaki

Johnson=cap dump
Cernarik=Dube and 2nd
Cirelli= Pelletier, Valamaki and 15th overall

Guadreau-Monahan-Lindbholm
Tkachuk-Cirelli-Johnson

Girodano-TJ Bodie ( if room )
Hanfin-Cernarik

Calgary passes as soon as you said Valimaki the Flames are very high on him and Pelltier. The Flames aren't going to give up that many young players and high picks for that package. I like Cirelli a lot but he's not worth what is equivalent to three first round picks.

Johnson's contract could get ugly.

This deal in the long run guts Calgary.

Pass.

 

[Flyer lurker]

WTF? Valamaki is a potential top pairing d-man...plus you want two 1st rounders? That's absurd for a recent 3rd rounder who put up 44 points on an offensively loaded team. I also doubt Cirelli would be all that great on the Flames. The Flames needs a physical net driving centre.

It is absurd that Cirelli is so good all ready that his line is going against the perfect line and being the better line

Flames want to offer sheet roll the dice and go for it. I don't blame them.

You want to pooh pooh Cirelli's value then you are just not watching him.

 

[Double Dion]

It is absurd that Cirelli is so good all ready that his line is going against the perfect line and being the better line

Flames want to offer sheet roll the dice and go for it. I don't blame them.

You want to pooh pooh Cirelli's value then you are just not watching him.

Cirelli is really good, but he also benefits from playing on a loaded roster. He doesn't see top pairings on the road. I wouldn't move Valimaki (top pairing likely), Pelletier (middle 6 forward) and a 1st for him. We're talking 3 good assets that are cost controlled for 1 that isn't. Guys are getting paid as RFA's now. You're giving up at least 6m in cap here too. It's not just the players.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Cirelli is really good, but he also benefits from playing on a loaded roster. He doesn't see top pairings on the road. I wouldn't move Valimaki (top pairing likely), Pelletier (middle 6 forward) and a 1st for him. We're talking 3 good assets that are cost controlled for 1 that isn't. Guys are getting paid as RFA's now. You're giving up at least 6m in cap here too. It's not just the players.

He is going up against the top line when TBL have any say and is winning. Killorn had his best season on TBL and Cirelli has to get some credit. He reminds me so much of Couturier with Cirelli's one flaw being he stinks at faceoffs still. If you want to say 3 elc players in the land of frozen cap are more valuable it is a valid argument. But offering less won't get Cirelli.

 

[blankall]

It is absurd that Cirelli is so good all ready that his line is going against the perfect line and being the better line

Flames want to offer sheet roll the dice and go for it. I don't blame them.

You want to pooh pooh Cirelli's value then you are just not watching him.

"Pooh Pooh"....You're delusional if you think you're getting that much value for Cirelli.

Is Tkachuk-Cirelli-Johnson even better than Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane?

 

[HoseEmDown]

So the dude turning 22 at the start of next season, coming off a bad knee injury with 24 NHL games under his belt is a top pairing potential D and not worth moving Cirelli for? You guys can keep him as he has little value to us anyway as we have two already top pair LD and one who's probably less than a season away from being one himself. The Flames don't have the pieces we would want in a trade for Cirelli, we aren't good trading partners.

 

[Flyer lurker]

"Pooh Pooh"....You're delusional if you think you're getting that much value for Cirelli.

Is Tkachuk-Cirelli-Johnson even better than Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane?

Would Cirelli put up just as many points as Monahan and provide better D with the same linemates? YEP!

If Cirelli can turn Killorn into a 56-57 point pace player he would do just fine on line 1 if you gave him pp time.

You don't get 22 year old next Couturier level centers for pooh.

And saying this if post covid there are offer sheets (who knows) the flames, avs, stars, habs, should be all over offering Cirelli 5yr 6m a year.

 

[blankall]

So the dude turning 22 at the start of next season, coming off a bad knee injury with 24 NHL games under his belt is a top pairing potential D and not worth moving Cirelli for? You guys can keep him as he has little value to us anyway as we have two already top pair LD and one who's probably less than a season away from being one himself. The Flames don't have the pieces we would want in a trade for Cirelli, we aren't good trading partners.

If you guys don't like Valimaki, why aren't you going after Kylington? Apparently NHL experience is the only thing that counts. Let's not pretend like you aren't going after the big potential in Valimaki here.

 

[blankall]

Would Cirelli put up just as many points as Monahan and provide better D with the same linemates? YEP!

If Cirelli can turn Killorn into a 56-57 point pace player he would do just fine on line 1 if you gave him pp time.

You don't get 22 year old next Couturier level centers for pooh.

And saying this if post covid there are offer sheets (who knows) the flames, avs, stars, habs, should be all over offering Cirelli 5yr 6m a year.

Couturier and Cierelli are not the same player. Couturier is a large centre with two 30+ goal and 76 point seasons. They are not the same level of player.

You do realize Backlund had more points than Cirelli last year? He's also considered one of the top 2 way players in the league.

You also have no idea how hockey works. You can't just throw a 2 way player into an offensive position, like Monahan is in now, and expect the same results. Monahan, Gaudreau, and Lindholm are the Flames first line. Monahan is successful because he is one of the league's most consistent goal scorers. Throwing a smallish two-way center into that role, just wouldn't work.

 

[Flyer lurker]

If you guys don't like Valimaki, why aren't you going after Kylington? Apparently NHL experience is the only thing that counts. Let's not pretend like you aren't going after the big potential in Valimaki here.

And if you see above its why I liked the Byrum offer. Its not a TBL need but you can't ignore the talent. Kylington I can't project better than Cernak (you can debate equal) so for TBL to trade for Kylington and lose in ED is moronic. Valimaki I can project as ED keeper and then u lose/trade Cernak.

 

[HoseEmDown]

If you guys don't like Valimaki, why aren't you going after Kylington? Apparently NHL experience is the only thing that counts. Let's not pretend like you aren't going after the big potential in Valimaki here.

Kylington might not even make the opening night roster and if he did he would be in the pressbox as the extra D. We don't need or want Valimaki, not sure who brought him up, the only D you have that would interest is is Andersson but his contract makes that too difficult. Like I said you guys aren't good trading partners as you really don't have anything we need that will help next year and your futures aren't as good as other teams who would be in the mix.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Couturier and Cierelli are not the same player. Couturier is a large centre with two 30+ goal and 76 point seasons. They are not the same level of player.

You do realize Backlund had more points than Cirelli last year? He's also considered one of the top 2 way players in the league.

You also have no idea how hockey works. You can't just throw a 2 way player into an offensive position, like Monahan is in now, and expect the same results. Monahan, Gaudreau, and Lindholm are the Flames first line. Monahan is successful because he is one of the league's most consistent goal scorers. Throwing a smallish two-way center into that role, just wouldn't work.

Yes I love the you don't lnow hockey argument when you disagree.

You do realize Cirelli goes against every first line and is +28. Yes +- can be a garbage stat but Cirelli line isn't playing equal to other team first lines. He is playing better than other teams first lines.

You do realize he can get 20 point more if he got pp time but because Kuch, Point, and Stamkos are so good, they can save Cirelli for the pk and the time against 1st lines. Its the beauty of TB depth. killorn with Johnson was a 45 point player while with Cirelli he turned into a 55 point player. Do you think maybe just maybe Cirelli caused that a bit?

You do realize at 22 he will easily be top 10 Selke this year.

You do realize 6ft isn't small.

You do realize the best 2 way center in Bergeron had a 46 goal scorer on his line. Yes you can play two way hockey and have 40 goal scorer on the line. It it were up to you you would have Bergeron and Pasta on different lines because how can a 2 way player have a stud goal scorer and have same results.

But yep I don't get hockey. Got it.

 

[blankall]

Yes I love the you don't lnow hockey argument when you disagree.

You do realize Cirelli goes against every first line and is +28. Yes +- can be a garbage stat but Cirelli line isn't playing equal to other team first lines. He is playing better than other teams first lines.

You do realize he can get 20 point more if he got pp time but because Kuch, Point, and Stamkos are so good, they can save Cirelli for the pk and the time against 1st lines. Its the beauty of TB depth. killorn with Johnson was a 45 point player while with Cirelli he turned into a 55 point player. Do you think maybe just maybe Cirelli caused that a bit?

You do realize at 22 he will easily be top 10 Selke this year.

You do realize 6ft isn't small.

You do realize the best 2 way center in Bergeron had a 46 goal scorer on his line. Yes you can play two way hockey and have 40 goal scorer on the line. It it were up to you you would have Bergeron and Pasta on different lines because how can a 2 way player have a stud goal scorer and have same results.

But yep I don't get hockey. Got it.

Anything under 200lbs is considered small for a centre. Never disputed Cirelli's 2 way play. However, automatically assuming he would get 20 more points, if given a more offensive role is just incorrect.

Love how you guys keep bringing up Bergeron and Couturier like they are in any way relevant to the value of Cirelli.

Cirelli is 23 now.

As far as I know he was not considered a top 10 selke player. Have they released voting results.

 

[viper0220]

To

Dillon Dube
Oliver Kylington
Jakob Pelletier
2020 1st round pick (CGY) *roughly 15th overall
2021 2nd round pick (CGY)

To

Anthony Cirelli
Erik Cernak
Tyler Johnson *if he'll waive his NTC for an opportunity in CGY top 6

Tampa clears out salary, roughly $13 million total once the RFA contracts are sorted out. They get two good young players, one a D man and one a forward, to take Cirelli/Cernak roster spots plus a nice package of futures because they are obviously giving up the better players. They also have depth on their roster to afford the loss of these players and still be a top team. Offer sheets could be coming and this prevents them from having to deal with that as well. In a perfect world for Tampa, they obviously keep these players but the flat cap has made them keeping their roster together very unlikely.

Flames do it because they fill three huge holes on their roster that need to be filled in order to compete with the current core. A good young two way 2C with upside to slot between Monahan and Backlund, a good young top 4 RHD to slot behind Andersson long term, and a top 6 forward with a right hand shot that can also play C. They are not short term fixes either, as both Cirelli and Cernak are young and as RFA's can be extended long term. Johnson is not as young, but has term left on his deal and given time in the top 6 will very likely return to producing like a top 6 forward again.

This deal is not good to T-Bay, they can get better offers. For the Flames, they should not do this because the team should be adding picks and young players.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Anything under 200lbs is considered small for a centre. Never disputed Cirelli's 2 way play. However, automatically assuming he would get 20 more points, if given a more offensive role is just incorrect.

Love how you guys keep bringing up Bergeron and Couturier like they are in any way relevant to the value of Cirelli.

Cirelli is 23 now.

As far as I know he was not considered a top 10 selke player. Have they released voting results.

Cirelli was 11th in 18-19 and had a much better year in 19-20. You can't be that obtuse to see Cirelli won't be top 10 selke.

But yes 2 way centers can't have offensive minded players on their lines. Its a brilliant strategy that all teams will take up. Flyers I am sure are taking Giroux off the Couts line and replacing him with Scott Laughton. Pasta will be playing with Krejci. Gallagher 30 goals pace last 3 years sorry Danault got to split up. Its a brilliant strategy to take off your 30 goals/70 point players off the 2 ways centers. Glad you know your hockey so i can learn from you.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Couturier and Cierelli are not the same player. Couturier is a large centre with two 30+ goal and 76 point seasons. They are not the same level of player.

You do realize Backlund had more points than Cirelli last year? He's also considered one of the top 2 way players in the league.

You also have no idea how hockey works. You can't just throw a 2 way player into an offensive position, like Monahan is in now, and expect the same results. Monahan, Gaudreau, and Lindholm are the Flames first line. Monahan is successful because he is one of the league's most consistent goal scorers. Throwing a smallish two-way center into that role, just wouldn't work.

At 21 Cirelli had a 19 goal season, Couturier didn't hit that many till he was 25. At 22 Cirelli was a 40+ point player, Couturier didn't hit that number till he was 25. Cirelli and Couturier aren't the same player but at Cirelli's age he's better than what Couturier was. Will he get to Couturier levels of goals and points? Probably not but should top 25 goals and 60 points a few seasons with just as good defensive play.

Backlund had 1 more point than Cirelli in two more games. Cirelli had more ES goals and points than Backlund. He is a good two way player but not as good as Cirelli according to Selke voters.

I don't know why you keep bringing up Cirelli's size, he's 6' 193 on NHL.com. Bergeron is listed at 6'1 195, not sure how 1" and 2lbs makes that big a difference?

 

[BurnEmUp]

This deal is not good to T-Bay, they can get better offers. For the Flames, they should not do this because the team should be adding picks and young players.

Cirelli and Cernak just turned 23, they are young, and if the Flames want to win anything with this core they need to add to it, because the core as it is now is likely not good enough to win anything. Specifically they need another top 6 C and a right shot top 4 defenseman which is exactly what those two players are haha.

This is exactly the type of trade the Flames need to do if it's available.

 

[Flyer lurker]

At 21 Cirelli had a 19 goal season, Couturier didn't hit that many till he was 25. At 22 Cirelli was a 40+ point player, Couturier didn't hit that number till he was 25. Cirelli and Couturier aren't the same player but at Cirelli's age he's better than what Couturier was. Will he get to Couturier levels of goals and points? Probably not but should top 25 goals and 60 points a few seasons with just as good defensive play.

Backlund had 1 more point than Cirelli in two more games. Cirelli had more ES goals and points than Backlund. He is a good two way player but not as good as Cirelli according to Selke voters.

I don't know why you keep bringing up Cirelli's size, he's 6' 193 on NHL.com. Bergeron is listed at 6'1 195, not sure how 1" and 2lbs makes that big a difference?

Let me say why I compare to Couturier. Couts always had first line ability but because he was so good defensively they kept him on the third line as a shutdown c. When you are 21ish and going against Malkin and playing well it shows. Likewise when you see Cirelli at 21 22 and handling himself you just see the potential oozing. When Couts got moved to play with Giroux and Jake he popped. If Point got hurt and you put Cirelli on a line with Kuch and Stamkos, I absolutely believe he would pop and get 65-70 points at a minimum. But that is the beauty of TBL depth at forward. They don't need Cirelli to pop and score 75 points.

Other fans bases don't get TBL values. Fans think because Cirelli is on TBL is why he is so good. That ain't it. Cirelli second half of the year didn't get to play with TBL top 3 forwards and went against the other teams top line at least 50% of the time and was the victor more than in defeat.