Post-Game Talk: Flames def. Canucks - 4-1(Gadjovich)

[Hit the post]

It’s seems pretty clear for this team to win we are gonna have to win 7-5 or 5-3 cause with our defense we are gonna give up a lot of goals.

Who seriously can check worth a damn up front? Horvat is passable. Maybe Miller. Dickon, 'ok'. Maybe a couple others 'ok'. But nobody excels at it. If your forwards aren't going to be of much help, that places the burden on the blueline even more.

 

[DL44]

Demko.. breaking into the season.. Iiked..

Podkolzon... Not quite ready yet.. this is where if the Canucks can sign Chaisson would be helpful AF..

Juolevi good.. Rathbone not as... Left side looks more and more like OEL-Hughes-Juolevi. I'm good with that.

Myers Miller.. vets in cruise control.

Liked Garland.

Burroughs.. seems like an ok call up type. Decision making and skill is not NHL caliber. Like his grit tho.

Gadovich.. I keep seeing praise and hope that he's on our 4th line... We would be in trouble. I difficult for me to see him with any type of NHL career. I could see him get a legit cup of coffee during his prime maybe... When he's 24-25... Probably no longer with us.

The rest of the AHLers... No one stood out to me more that Hunt for good reasons... And MacEwan for his one rough shift ending with him headbutting Gudbranson's fist.

Overall.. team couldn't put together 2-3 tape to tape passes in a row to move the puck.. whereas Cgy seemed on point with a couple of their lines doing just that..it was a rough one.

1 star. Would not watch again.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Welp. Another preseason banger in the can.

I can't believe Baumgartner hasn't been fired out of a cannon yet. The D is such a garbage fire, and the guy in charge just keeps on keeping on. A lot of that going around these days. Also, lol @ Calgary for bringing in Gudbranson. Baffling, but hilarious. He's still...Gudbranson.

Juolevi: awful until he scored/assisted, then I thought he really perked up. Still painful watching him try to defend; zero physicality, timid, prone to throwing the puck away...I mean, he had a good game for him but he'd still be long gone without his history here.

Rathbone: poor outing for him. Crashing back down to earth without a good vet to back him up. Because why would we have any of those.

Garland: I thought he was easily the team's best player tonight. Makes things happen whenever he hits the ice despite his small stature. When the play's going on, you're saying: "Oh, #8. There he is again. Nice play!" Would be terrible luck if he's injured for any length of time. *deep sigh* Welcome to the Canucks, kid.

Podkolzin: Again, bits and pieces of good plays. Very much a work in progress...good size, big body, but still feeling his way. Also again, might not be the worst thing in the world if he starts in Abbotsford. Anyone pumping him up for Calder voting is on bath salts.

Hunt: Oh yeah, he's a thing. Would still rather Rathbone's the #3 LD when the puck drops on the regular season.

Dickinson: Oh yeah, he's also a thing. Normally, if the support guys aren't noticeable it's a good thing...but this is preseason and you want to see *something* from the new guy. More than once I saw #18 and thought: "Wow, Virtanen lost weight, slowed down, and got really timid." Not off to a great start in Canucks colours.

Gadjovic: Why didn't he play more?

MacEwan: Why didn't he play less?

Highmore still sucks.

Schenn is slow AF. I mean, I liked the guy a lot when he had his cup of coffee before, and I liked when he was signed because I (foolishly) thought he'd be a 6/7 guy. Still okay with him in that role, but if he plays further up, it's a problem.

------------------------------------------

So overall, things aren't all that much different that I thought they'd be. Glad Hughes and Pete finally got their contracts in place, but if anything happens to Demko this team is so utterly, hopelessly f***ed. Realistically it's going to be caved in from the blueline back, and it's so f***ing frustrating to see it coming a mile away and hear bullshit like "Not a real fan!" for it.

I swear, some people will never be happy until this forum is ten people curating 50 pro-Benning propaganda spam accounts.

Dickenson is pretty much a vet with contract now, I expect him to cruise in preseason

 

[Nucker101]

And - puzzled why Gadjovich got such little ice time.



IMO, he’s had a very solid camp and should he in the conversation for a fourth line spot. Di Giuseppe and Dowling are likely ahead of him, but it would be nice to see him get the ice time to show if he could make that competition more interesting.

Would laugh if it’s because the team is hoping to sneak him through waivers

 

[sting101]

Aside from depth battles i wouldn't put much stock into pre season play at this point. Vets are just finding timing and their legs and as things start to ramp up into full speed (with closer to reality rosters) we will get a better idea how certain puzzle pieces fit and what the new guys like OEL Garland Dickinson Poolman Schenn Podkolzin will add to the team once they have 4 or 5 games under them.

As far as Schenn i'm not sure why this place had such a love affair with him. I see him more as a AHL mentor at this stage then a bona fide NHLer. If he provides some utility then that's about all you can ask for. He would be a horrific top6 regular

Podkolzin will be fine. His game is such that he was always going to have a longer adjustment period then dynamic offensive talents. Once he gets his feet under him and learns where and when he needs to be and how he can utilize his strength on pucks and distribution game he will be solid. My expectations are more along the lines of rookie Bo Horvat unlike some here who have him being an instant impact player.

Interesting battle between Juolevi and Rathbone developing. At this stage it's really close. Rathbone is vastly superior in his explosion and skating but Juolevi clearly has the PK advantage and has played more structured

 

[alternate]

Really couldn’t disagree more. While I agree he does some little things well his skating has somehow gotten worse and will be a major detriment. He will be part of every opposition coaches game plan. They will go after that side whenever he is on the ice because he can’t keep up. It’s just not up to the NHL standard…might not even be AHL standard.

Based on the reports coming out of practice etc while he is still with the main group he is a distant third behind Rathbone and Hunt.

I don't put too much stock into practice reports,especially for a guy like OJ who needs the external motivation.

Don't agree about his skating. He's clearly no Rathbone in that department, but it is better. Not a very smooth skater though,so when he gets caught on a long shift, he looks very labored, I give you that.

But I will be shocked if either Hunt or Rathbone start the season ahead of him, save for a drastic reversal in their play over the rest of preseason.

 

[Get North]

Did anybody notice the Canucks played with 4 skaters at 5 on 5 in the 3rd period for an entire minute? Newcomers like Podkolzin, Garland and Dickinson are probably confused if Green or Shaw is the coach.

Also sad to see Juolevi skate past Garland after he blocked a shot and required assistance getting to the bench.

overall the team got slapped up and down by the Flames. Somebody on this team has to be willing to sacrifice the body other than MacEwen otherwise games will be too difficult for a really skilled team.

Hunt and Petan shouldn’t be skating on the same ice surface as Gaudreau or Lindholm. We got enough guys who can stick handle. Who can actually check on Vancouver? Juolevi is the best LHD at checking, that’s embarrassing

 

[VanJack]

Aside from depth battles i wouldn't put much stock into pre season play at this point. Vets are just finding timing and their legs and as things start to ramp up into full speed (with closer to reality rosters) we will get a better idea how certain puzzle pieces fit and what the new guys like OEL Garland Dickinson Poolman Schenn Podkolzin will add to the team once they have 4 or 5 games under them.

As far as Schenn i'm not sure why this place had such a love affair with him. I see him more as a AHL mentor at this stage then a bona fide NHLer. If he provides some utility then that's about all you can ask for. He would be a horrific top6 regular

Podkolzin will be fine. His game is such that he was always going to have a longer adjustment period then dynamic offensive talents. Once he gets his feet under him and learns where and when he needs to be and how he can utilize his strength on pucks and distribution game he will be solid. My expectations are more along the lines of rookie Bo Horvat unlike some here who have him being an instant impact player.

Interesting battle between Juolevi and Rathbone developing. At this stage it's really close. Rathbone is vastly superior in his explosion and skating but Juolevi clearly has the PK advantage and has played more structured

Just not seeing the props for Juolevi.....continues to be a huge liability out there with his inability to turn and with his substandard lateral agility. He's in constant danger of being beat wide down the wall, sometimes by even AHL forwards.

He's fallen so far behind Rathbone and Hunt, that the Canucks will soon have to admit the inevitable and put him on waivers. If he's claimed, it would be sad end for a fifth overall draft pick.

But I see earlier this week another couple of first round draft picks--Noah Juulsen and Nick Merkley--ended up on waivers, with no takers. So I suppose there's a chance Juolevi could get through to Abbotsford.

But one thing is for certain. Without OEL, Hughes and Hamonic in the lineup, this Canuck blueline basically falls off a cliff. Not liking what I'm seeing so far from Myers and Schenn, who were doing their best imitations of pylons out there. But they're veterans, and hopefully come around once we're clear of the exhibition schedule.

 

[Bankerguy]

I wish Rathbone was a RHS natural RD. That would have been great. No $3M enigma in Hamonic and Juolevi could play 3LD and PK.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Depth chart rankings..

Forward:
1. Di Guiseppe
2. Highmore
3. Dowling
4. Petan
5. Gadjovich
6. MacEwen


Defence:
1. Rathbone
2. Hunt
3. Juolevi
4. Burroughs


If Pod needs half a season in the AHL to work on his skills, sign Chaisson. Pod is good enough to play in the NHL right now but might be wise to give him 19 mins a game and PP1 time in Abbotsford to improve his offensive confidence and creativity.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Just not seeing the props for Juolevi.....continues to be a huge liability out there with his inability to turn and with his substandard lateral agility. He's in constant danger of being beat wide down the wall, sometimes by even AHL forwards.

He's fallen so far behind Rathbone and Hunt, that the Canucks will soon have to admit the inevitable and put him on waivers. If he's claimed, it would be sad end for a fifth overall draft pick.

But I see earlier this week another couple of first round draft picks--Noah Juulsen and Nick Merkley--ended up on waivers, with no takers. So I suppose there's a chance Juolevi could get through to Abbotsford.

But one thing is for certain. Without OEL, Hughes and Hamonic in the lineup, this Canuck blueline basically falls off a cliff. Not liking what I'm seeing so far from Myers and Schenn, who were doing their best imitations of pylons out there. But they're veterans, and hopefully come around once we're clear of the exhibition schedule.

I'd say that last nights game has put them a bit closer..Juolevi's bad pivot didnt do him any favours, and obviously, any mishap he does do, is magnified x 10........ Jack was a -3 (played 17.25), and OJ was a +1 (played 21.10), plus an assist....One of them played the PP, the other played on the PK.

 

[sting101]

Just not seeing the props for Juolevi.....continues to be a huge liability out there with his inability to turn and with his substandard lateral agility. He's in constant danger of being beat wide down the wall, sometimes by even AHL forwards.

He's fallen so far behind Rathbone and Hunt, that the Canucks will soon have to admit the inevitable and put him on waivers. If he's claimed, it would be sad end for a fifth overall draft pick.

But I see earlier this week another couple of first round draft picks--Noah Juulsen and Nick Merkley--ended up on waivers, with no takers. So I suppose there's a chance Juolevi could get through to Abbotsford.

But one thing is for certain. Without OEL, Hughes and Hamonic in the lineup, this Canuck blueline basically falls off a cliff. Not liking what I'm seeing so far from Myers and Schenn, who were doing their best imitations of pylons out there. But they're veterans, and hopefully come around once we're clear of the exhibition schedule.

I wouldn't say it's props for Juolevi. Just think his ability to transition the puck size/reach and PKing is a big advantage given that Rathbone looks like he needs seasoning on the defensive side of things and with positioning. I think he figures it out soon and blows past Olli but people get overly worked up about SPEEEED and tools and lose focus on how effective players can be and what Green wants from them given a role.

We'll see. At the end of the first period last night i thought Olli was horrendous. His last couple periods he looked pretty good??. Yes he is gonna get picked on with chip and chase. He has to learn what guys like Schenn and Bogosian have learned over the years....cannot get static at the offensive blueline. Either he has to cheat back if it looks like he wont be able to squeeze the winger or he has to be more aggressive and use his size to aggressively pinch them off. He cannot be in between or he will get murdered.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Hunt is not a PK'er either...

"It also seemed significant that defenceman Olli Juolevi logged 7:20 of short-handed TOI, while Brad Hunt, the veteran he is competing against for a depth spot on the blue line, saw only 57 seconds of PK."..imac, sportsnet.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

In a game where your team is largely playing defense, it’s a bit easier for guys with positional smarts and clearing ability to look good. In Juolevi’s defense, those are two areas he is decent at, and he did an acceptable job on both those fronts.

However when he’s playing dump ins and the opposing team is applying pressure, or trying to move laterally, or indeed even just turn whether it’s with a puck, or to evade a checker, or to keep up with an attacking player, he gets burned every time. That has long been the weakness of his game and it hasn’t gotten better (IMO).

His skill set is that of a depth defensemen who plays in injury relief. And for that reason, given the glut of bodies we have that can fill that role, I see him being waived and sent to Abbotsford.

 

[Hit the post]

In OJ's "defense", all that missed ice time due to injuries, COVID, protecting an asset like a 5th round pick (Benn) rather than playing OJ, etc.,; likely caused irreparable damage to his development.

 

[alternate]

People keep mentioning Juolevi's pivoting, which absolutely has been his biggest weakness so far as a pro. But it didn't hurt him at all in this game.

I know there was the play at the offensive blueline where a Flame played chip and chase, and Garrett said something about OJ pivoting into the middle of the ice and gave the Flame lots of room. But that's what OJ us supposed to do there.

Take away the middle of the ice and let his partner play the angle. His partner did that, the Flame got a low danger shot from low and wide, the rebound came out into the slot, and OJ was there to clear it away from danger. OJ's pivoting had nothing to do with anything on that play.

It's a play we see probably 20 time a game. Usually isn't from the offensive blueline, more on the defensive side of center. But a pretty run of the mill play that I didn't understand why Garrett was saying what he did. Other than Garrett gets his biases and it will show through sometimes in his commentary. I do like Garrett fine as a colour guy, but he does have a tendency to let preconceived notions influence how he breaks down a play. For contrast, in the Flames' first goal, where Rathbone got running around a bit, nary a mention of how Jack played that goal.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

In a game where your team is largely playing defense, it’s a bit easier for guys with positional smarts and clearing ability to look good. In Juolevi’s defense, those are two areas he is decent at, and he did an acceptable job on both those fronts.

However when he’s playing dump ins and the opposing team is applying pressure, or trying to move laterally, or indeed even just turn whether it’s with a puck, or to evade a checker, or to keep up with an attacking player, he gets burned every time. That has long been the weakness of his game and it hasn’t gotten better (IMO).

His skill set is that of a depth defensemen who plays in injury relief. And for that reason, given the glut of bodies we have that can fill that role, I see him being waived and sent to Abbotsford.

Who do we have on the LHD that can PK..?...Hughes, Rathbone, and Hunt clearly do not...They're not going into the season with only one LHD (OEL) that can PK.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

People keep mentioning Juolevi's pivoting, which absolutely has been his biggest weakness so far as a pro. But it didn't hurt him at all in this game.

I know there was the play at the offensive blueline where a Flame played chip and chase, and Garrett said something about OJ pivoting into the middle of the ice and gave the Flame lots of room. But that's what OJ us supposed to do there.

Take away the middle of the ice and let his partner play the angle. His partner did that, the Flame got a low danger shot from low and wide, the rebound came out into the slot, and OJ was there to clear it away from danger. OJ's pivoting had nothing to do with anything on that play.

It's a play we see probably 20 time a game. Usually isn't from the offensive blueline, more on the defensive side of center. But a pretty run of the mill play that I didn't understand why Garrett was saying what he did. Other than Garrett gets his biases and it will show through sometimes in his commentary. I do like Garrett fine as a colour guy, but he does have a tendency to let preconceived notions influence how he breaks down a play. For contrast, in the Flames' first goal, where Rathbone got running around a bit, nary a mention of how Jack played that goal.

I'm probably one of the biggest Rathbone fans on here, but I think you nailed it here.
I thought Rathbone looked a lot worse than Juolevi this game and Juolevi did a fair amount of penalty killing. He played four minutes more than Rathbone and, while it's a flawed stat, he was the only plus D man with a plus one. Rathbone was minus three by comparison even though some of the blame obviously goes to Schenn on that pairing.
I think it's partly due to draft position and expectations as well.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Who do we have on the LHD that can PK..?...Hughes, Rathbone, and Hunt clearly do not...They're not going into the season with only one LHD (OEL) that can PK.

IMO - you would probably serve the development of both Hughes and Rathbone by giving them some PK time. OEL is your first unit guy, but giving one or both of those guys some rotation on the PK is extremely necessary for their long term development.

Failing that, I think you may see some RD guys play their off side on the PK.

 

[alternate]

IMO - you would probably serve the development of both Hughes and Rathbone by giving them some PK time. OEL is your first unit guy, but giving one or both of those guys some rotation on the PK is extremely necessary for their long term development.

Failing that, I think you may see some RD guys play their off side on the PK.

I'd rather not see Hughes getting into shooting lanes on the PK tbh. Plus, PK is one area where length is an important element. I'm completely fine with Hughes getting tons of offensive minutes, and letting less important guys (to our offense) play those exhausting PK minutes, and risking the broken foot.

 

[Nucker101]

I actually don't mind OJ's defense on the PK, but at 5v5 he just can't be trusted since he can't pivot at an NHL level, it's sad to watch him get turnstiled. Teams with good prep/video scouting will expose that and he'd 100% get exposed during the playoffs when teams really dial in on any weaknesses that they can take advantage of.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

IMO - you would probably serve the development of both Hughes and Rathbone by giving them some PK time. OEL is your first unit guy, but giving one or both of those guys some rotation on the PK is extremely necessary for their long term development.

Failing that, I think you may see some RD guys play their off side on the PK.

Hughes plays a ton at ES and PP..I don't see Green having a unique player like Hughes, putting his body on the line blocking shots.

Remains to be seen..I guess.

 

[Hoglander]

What happens when OEL takes a penalty, if you have Hughes and Rathbone as the other LD's?

 

[MS]

Aside from depth battles i wouldn't put much stock into pre season play at this point. Vets are just finding timing and their legs and as things start to ramp up into full speed (with closer to reality rosters) we will get a better idea how certain puzzle pieces fit and what the new guys like OEL Garland Dickinson Poolman Schenn Podkolzin will add to the team once they have 4 or 5 games under them.

Agreed. People read way too much into a guy like Miller having a lazy stinky game last night or OEL looking good in offensive minutes against AHLers. These guys are on cruise control against different opposition in different situations than they'd normally face. Trying to judge established veterans before opening day is a pointless exercise.

What you're looking for are the depth battles and breakthrough performances from young players. And unfortunately there haven't been many guys standing up and grabbing roster spots. When guys like Burroughs and Dowling are your big winners for doing 'pretty good', that's not great.

Myers is the one 'established' veteran who is a bit concerning because his mobility has looked so poor in these early games.

As far as Schenn i'm not sure why this place had such a love affair with him. I see him more as a AHL mentor at this stage then a bona fide NHLer. If he provides some utility then that's about all you can ask for. He would be a horrific top6 regular

Agreed. The whole Schenn thing with this market is bizarre. There are 30 NHL fanbases who view him as a total pylon trash can worse than Gudbranson and then this fanbase seems to think he's like a quality #5 defender based on a small sample size of average play 3 years ago.

The guy can't skate and is not an NHL calibre player at this point. TB was putting him in the sort of ultra-soft minutes you give to a 20 y/o callup like Rathbone last year to try and hide him.

Podkolzin will be fine. His game is such that he was always going to have a longer adjustment period then dynamic offensive talents. Once he gets his feet under him and learns where and when he needs to be and how he can utilize his strength on pucks and distribution game he will be solid. My expectations are more along the lines of rookie Bo Horvat unlike some here who have him being an instant impact player.

I think Podkolzin will be fine ... eventually.

The problem is that it seems like a majority of fans were pencilling him into the top-9 as a 'big upgrade' who would score 30-35 points this year. As you say, it looks more likely that he'll be getting 8-10 minutes on the 4th line to start, or be in the AHL for a couple months adjusting to NA.

Interesting battle between Juolevi and Rathbone developing. At this stage it's really close. Rathbone is vastly superior in his explosion and skating but Juolevi clearly has the PK advantage and has played more structured

Rathbone was really poor last night.

I don't rate Juolevi at all but he does do some things pretty well and can PK which gives him a big advantage over Rathbone. But his skating is a major problem.

On a good blueline, I don't think either of them would have much of a chance of cracking the roster but this team is so shockingly thin that one of them basically has to.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

The team has no defence because it has no good defenders after Edler and Schmidt left. You guys called Edler slow but he could defend and Schmidt just wanted to get out after 1 season under supreme leader Jimbo. Demko is going to be worn out by december . We have a point machine in Hughes and some warm bodies who can't do anything right most of the time.

After seven years of Jimbo, you guys should have known that he can't scout any good defenceman. He was lucky Vegas dumped Schmidt to clear space for Pietro.

Yep. And I sometimes wonder if Benning is in some weird, warped way reliving his own career as an overhyped-but-never-reaches-his-potential blueliner, because he just keeps going for guys who "coulda been a contender," just like he was way back when. He's just in some bizarre Groundhog Day loop, forever repeating the same mistakes with his D group.

And I really don't see how this team is going to run a three-line top 9 "balanced attack" up front, when they've really only got a true top 6. It would be a little painful seeing guys like Chiasson or Dickinson or even Pearson at this point skating regularly with the top 6 talent.