Confirmed Trade: [FLA/CGY] Sam Bennett and 2022 6th round pick for Emil Heineman and 2022 2nd round pick

[Ratsreign]

This is a really weird comment because literally every team has made bad trades. Your Oilers for example made horrible trades involving:
Paul Coffee
Mark Messier
Vincent Damphousse
Miroslav Satan
Taylor Hall
Joffrey Lupul
Jordan Eberle

Not to mention the best player of all time.

Coffey, Mess, and The Great One never “broke out” before the Oilers traded them?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Every team does, it's not unique to any one franchise. Two of the players listed are HOFers sure but again, nothing surprising.

Umm, not to this level.

3x Hart Trophies, a 86 goal scorer (pre-rocket) an Art Ross, Conne Smyth etc.

This is a really weird comment because literally every team has made bad trades. Your Oilers for example made horrible trades involving:
Paul Coffee
Mark Messier
Vincent Damphousse
Miroslav Satan
Taylor Hall
Joffrey Lupul
Jordan Eberle

Not to mention the best player of all time.

Satan fits the bill. But the rest of those players were already established.
They were bad trades, but they didn't break out on the new team.

 

[McShogun99]

I'd rather wait until next season to judge the trade. Bennett was miserable in Calgary and seems to be motivated by playing for a new, playoff bound team that's elevated him in the lineup. Lots of players get hot after they get traded.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Fair value is barely a mid round pick at this point. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to Seattle or be passed over in the expansion draft.

Lol classic.

 

[ProjectPanthers]

There's no point in chirping "bad takes" because for all we know Bennett disappears and scores 2 points in his next 30 games and suddenly those laughing at "bad takes" have become the bad takes themselves.

In regards to the trade, I think the bigger question that needs to be answered after this trade is just wtf is going on with Calgary and their development of players? It is a culture thing? Trickle down effect from upper management?

Seems like all their young guys are regressing and have been for the last couple of seasons. Then you hear how they've handled guys like Bennett, Kylington and Jankowski and you start to question what that locker room and front office environment is like.

I'm not bashing the Flames, as a Panthers fan we have also dealt with our fair share of incompetence and lack of accountability both in the locker room and with management. "Need for accountability" was quote we heard the most from Zito when he was hired.

It makes me wonder what a guys like Gaudeau and Tkachuk could be doing in a more stable environment. Looking at Treliving's trade history, it seemed like he tried to accelerate success instead of letting the team grow naturally but at this point what success has he had to keep his position? I never would've let him hire Sutter this season and would've fired the whole cast and crew come June. Looks like Calgary will be treading water until then.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

There's no point in chirping "bad takes" because for all we know Bennett disappears and scores 2 points in his next 30 games and suddenly those laughing at "bad takes" have become the bad takes themselves.

In regards to the trade, I think the bigger question that needs to be answered after this trade is just wtf is going on with Calgary and their development of players? It is a culture thing? Trickle down effect from upper management?

Seems like all their young guys are regressing and have been for the last couple of seasons. Then you hear how they've handled guys like Bennett, Kylington and Jankowski and you start to question what that locker room and front office environment is like.

I'm not bashing the Flames, as a Panthers fan we have also dealt with our fair share of incompetence and lack of accountability both in the locker room and with management. "Need for accountability" was quote we heard the most from Zito when he was hired.

It makes me wonder what a guys like Gaudeau and Tkachuk could be doing in a more stable environment. Looking at Treliving's trade history, it seemed like he tried to accelerate success instead of letting the team grow naturally but at this point what success has he had to keep his position? I never would've let him hire Sutter this season and would've fired the whole cast and crew come June. Looks like Calgary will be treading water until then.

Impossible to say what's going on behind the scenes in terms of development, but i will say that when the team is not fully on the same page and things aren't very fun it impacts everything.

Couple years ago when the Flames were good their young guys had plenty of success, Andersson was solid for a rookie and got better as the season went on, Jankowski put up 32 pts from the bottom 6, Rittich in goal got the job done, Hanifin was fine etc.

But the last couple years things haven't been as good and when the vets struggle to play at a level they're capable of then it's harder for the young guys as well.

Bennett was obviously an outliner in all of this in that he really didn't found his way fully at any point and there was probably some mismanaging, but at the same time a lot of it is on him too. We'll see how he does next season when everybody expects him to do big things.

But yeah.. point is that before you can get more people to hop on board and contribute the core group needs to have their games figured out and it obviously hasn't been the case. Puts more pressure on the management and coaching too in regards to player decisions when there's not much room for error.

Maybe there is a locker room issue, maybe not, but it's for sure that the Flames have good players who would thrive in ideal environments.

 

[Double Dion]

There's no point in chirping "bad takes" because for all we know Bennett disappears and scores 2 points in his next 30 games and suddenly those laughing at "bad takes" have become the bad takes themselves.

In regards to the trade, I think the bigger question that needs to be answered after this trade is just wtf is going on with Calgary and their development of players? It is a culture thing? Trickle down effect from upper management?

Seems like all their young guys are regressing and have been for the last couple of seasons. Then you hear how they've handled guys like Bennett, Kylington and Jankowski and you start to question what that locker room and front office environment is like.

I'm not bashing the Flames, as a Panthers fan we have also dealt with our fair share of incompetence and lack of accountability both in the locker room and with management. "Need for accountability" was quote we heard the most from Zito when he was hired.

It makes me wonder what a guys like Gaudeau and Tkachuk could be doing in a more stable environment. Looking at Treliving's trade history, it seemed like he tried to accelerate success instead of letting the team grow naturally but at this point what success has he had to keep his position? I never would've let him hire Sutter this season and would've fired the whole cast and crew come June. Looks like Calgary will be treading water until then.

This is actually a really good post. Not a lot to add. I'll say I've been very happy with the drafting under Treliving, but some of the futures for now trades, notably the Hamonic trade were awful at the time and have aged even worse. His UFA signings have also been poor as a whole. People who bag on Gaudreau don't know what they're talking about. Put him with a legit finisher and he's a 100 point player.

 

[ProjectPanthers]

This is actually a really good post. Not a lot to add. I'll say I've been very happy with the drafting under Treliving, but some of the futures for now trades, notably the Hamonic trade were awful at the time and have aged even worse. His UFA signings have also been poor as a whole. People who bag on Gaudreau don't know what they're talking about. Put him with a legit finisher and he's a 100 point player.

There is an awful lot of talent on that roster, anyone paying attention can see it. This is how I know the issues are above what's happening on the ice. Like @Uncle Scrooge said it could be something as simple as them just not having fun anymore. If that's the case Sutter definitely isn't the answer

Time will tell, but I just don't see what Treliving has done to keep his position. Giving him the green light to hire his own coach has he's about to enter his 8th season as GM with his 5th coach (yes I know shit went down with Peters). Like I said, they were better off riding out the season and cleaning house in the off-season. There is too much high-end talent on that roster to be sputtering out like this. Either fix management or trade the lot of them and try a true rebuild, not an accelerated one. We've seen time and time again that those don't work, and although they can bring short term success, that approach won't win you cups.

 

[Double Dion]

There is an awful lot of talent on that roster, anyone paying attention can see it. This is how I know the issues are above what's happening on the ice. Like @Uncle Scrooge said it could be something as simple as them just not having fun anymore. If that's the case Sutter definitely isn't the answer

Time will tell, but I just don't see what Treliving has done to keep his position. Giving him the green light to hire his own coach has he's about to enter his 8th season as GM with his 5th coach (yes I know shit went down with Peters). Like I said, they were better off riding out the season and cleaning house in the off-season. There is too much high-end talent on that roster to be sputtering out like this. Either fix management or trade the lot of them and try a true rebuild, not an accelerated one. We've seen time and time again that those don't work, and although they can bring short term success, that approach won't win you cups.

The only thing you've written that I disagree with is firing Treliving AND entering a full rebuild. For me, it's one or the other. If we're rebuilding I want his drafting philosophy employed, he's been incredibly successful outside the 1st round. If we're not, then I want a new GM better able to assess what's wrong with the makeup of the team. When I look at the roster I only see one glaring hole and that's a finishing top 6 RW. But clearly the issues are deeper. I'm advocating one or the other though, firing him and rebuilding is counter-productive because if you're rebuilding then you want him drafting. We haven't had a GM draft anywhere close to as good as Treliving since Fletcher in the 80's.

 

[tellermine]

Truth is we dont know yet who won this trade.
Surely Bennett have shined but it might be just a honeymoon.

I do hope he rises to a new level permanently.

 

[DomBarr]

The only thing you've written that I disagree with is firing Treliving AND entering a full rebuild. For me, it's one or the other. If we're rebuilding I want his drafting philosophy employed, he's been incredibly successful outside the 1st round. If we're not, then I want a new GM better able to assess what's wrong with the makeup of the team. When I look at the roster I only see one glaring hole and that's a finishing top 6 RW. But clearly the issues are deeper. I'm advocating one or the other though, firing him and rebuilding is counter-productive because if you're rebuilding then you want him drafting. We haven't had a GM draft anywhere close to as good as Treliving since Fletcher in the 80's.

Its time for him to go regardless of the Flames direction. He does not know how build a cohesive team either via free agency, drafting or trading. We have the same weaknesses we had when he was hired. Everyone knows we are strong on LW and 2 way centers so what did he spend his last 2 1st round picks on - Pelletier an undersized LW and Zary a 2nd line 2 way center. He traded down and went for the safer pick in Zary as opposed to swinging for a potential game breaking center in Lapierre

 

[Steeler23]

I'd rather wait until next season to judge the trade. Bennett was miserable in Calgary and seems to be motivated by playing for a new, playoff bound team that's elevated him in the lineup. Lots of players get hot after they get traded.

2x 2nd pick is a price paid for useful rental sometimes. So I think we can already call it a win for the Panthers (if Bennett keep this pace or even if he decline a bit).

But yeah, I'll wait until next year to know if Bennett really turned his career around or if it's the adrenaline of a new team. I hope he keep it up, I always liked him.

 

[Double Dion]

Its time for him to go regardless of the Flames direction. He does not know how build a cohesive team either via free agency, drafting or trading. We have the same weaknesses we had when he was hired. Everyone knows we are strong on LW and 2 way centers so what did he spend his last 2 1st round picks on - Pelletier an undersized LW and Zary a 2nd line 2 way center. He traded down and went for the safer pick in Zary as opposed to swinging for a potential game breaking center in Lapierre

Very flawed thinking here. BPA each and every time in the draft. Lapierre isn't as good a player as Zary in any regard and I'd sooner have Zary. You can never have too many middle six two-way centers. Who should he have drafted instead of Pelletier? The only player drafted after him who is trending more positively was Nick Robertson and if that's a reason to change your drafting 28 other GMs missed on him too.

Treliving has plenty to criticize, but his draft record isn't one of those items. 1st rounders have been reasonably good and he's been a top 3 drafting GM outside the 1st round IMO. Since 2015 we have found 9 players or blue chip prospects outside the 1st round of the draft. One of those players might win the Norris this year, another one has probably been our best winger this year and another one is a top 3 goaltending prospect.

 

[DFF]

The only thing you've written that I disagree with is firing Treliving AND entering a full rebuild. For me, it's one or the other. If we're rebuilding I want his drafting philosophy employed, he's been incredibly successful outside the 1st round. If we're not, then I want a new GM better able to assess what's wrong with the makeup of the team. When I look at the roster I only see one glaring hole and that's a finishing top 6 RW. But clearly the issues are deeper. I'm advocating one or the other though, firing him and rebuilding is counter-productive because if you're rebuilding then you want him drafting. We haven't had a GM draft anywhere close to as good as Treliving since Fletcher in the 80's.

After 7 yrs, he produced this garbage of a team and there are still some believers. Lmfao

btw, so what if he found a mangipani or two mid rounds. Every team found some. He has a lottery team with bottom of the league prospects.

 

[Double Dion]

After 7 yrs, he produced this garbage of a team and there are still some believers. Lmfao

btw, so what if he found a mangipani or two mid rounds. Every team found some. He has a lottery team with bottom of the league prospects.

Examine what his flaws were. To me the ones that stand out were rushing a rebuild and his UFA signings. There's no defending the Hamonic trade. It was brutal. There's no defending the Brouwer, Neal or Stone signings. Again, brutal. He was hamstrung by ownership on his coaching hires other than Peters and D. Sutter. To criticize his draft record is to ignore reality. It has been the best we've seen in this town in 30+ years. If you're rebuilding you aren't trading futures for now or signing long term UFAs. So why would we can the best drafting GM we've had in 30 years if we're going to do a full rebuild?

If you're trying to fix this roster and be competitive right away then I'd bring in new eyes and can Treliving. Let me ask you. Has he been a worse GM than D Sutter, Burke, Feaster, Button, Coates or Risebrough? You have to go back almost 50 years to the 1972 hiring of Cliff Fletcher by Atlanta to find a GM who has done better work. Or go up the road 2.5 hours. Which of their last 5 GMs have done better work? Or go to Vancouver and ask about their last 2.

 

[FameFlame069]

Umm, not to this level.

3x Hart Trophies, a 86 goal scorer (pre-rocket) an Art Ross, Conne Smyth etc.



Satan fits the bill. But the rest of those players were already established.
They were bad trades, but they didn't break out on the new team.

So scoring 39G(12 more than career high) and 93P(13 more than career high), and getting the Hart trophy doesn't count as breaking out after being traded?
He never cracked 30G's in Edmonton, he hit 80P once and that was in 1 less game than his 93P

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

There is an awful lot of talent on that roster, anyone paying attention can see it. This is how I know the issues are above what's happening on the ice. Like @Uncle Scrooge said it could be something as simple as them just not having fun anymore. If that's the case Sutter definitely isn't the answer

Time will tell, but I just don't see what Treliving has done to keep his position. Giving him the green light to hire his own coach has he's about to enter his 8th season as GM with his 5th coach (yes I know shit went down with Peters). Like I said, they were better off riding out the season and cleaning house in the off-season. There is too much high-end talent on that roster to be sputtering out like this. Either fix management or trade the lot of them and try a true rebuild, not an accelerated one. We've seen time and time again that those don't work, and although they can bring short term success, that approach won't win you cups.

I will say this though, it seems like Sutter has fully implemented his system now and regardless of game outcomes recently Calgary has dominated possession stats. I do think there was a coaching iasue for a while now, hell we had a player only meeting like 2-3 weeks into the season. Maybe we need a leadership change on the team though, most people expect Tkachuk to be the next captain and it looks like he's matured a lot under Sutter.

 

[Double Dion]

I will say this though, it seems like Sutter has fully implemented his system now and regardless of game outcomes recently Calgary has dominated possession stats. I do think there was a coaching iasue for a while now, hell we had a player only meeting like 2-3 weeks into the season. Maybe we need a leadership change on the team though, most people expect Tkachuk to be the next captain and it looks like he's matured a lot under Sutter.

Lindholm should be the next captain I think. I agree on the coaching issue and leadership problems though.

 

[Fatass]

I will say this though, it seems like Sutter has fully implemented his system now and regardless of game outcomes recently Calgary has dominated possession stats. I do think there was a coaching iasue for a while now, hell we had a player only meeting like 2-3 weeks into the season. Maybe we need a leadership change on the team though, most people expect Tkachuk to be the next captain and it looks like he's matured a lot under Sutter.

Just from watching on TV it looks like Sutter likes what he’s now getting from Matt and Johnny.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Just from watching on TV it looks like Sutter likes what he’s now getting from Matt and Johnny.

Despite production he seems quite high on Monahan too. I am starting to think the rumours of him having a lingering injury are true though

 

[The Kingslayer]

That shot for the OT winner last night. Where the hell was that in Calgary haha

 

[The Kingslayer]

Coffey, Mess, and The Great One never “broke out” before the Oilers traded them?

Nope haha. They were struggling all those years and all those cups and needed a change of scenery. The Oilers gave up on them.

 

[Dack]

There's no point in chirping "bad takes" because for all we know Bennett disappears and scores 2 points in his next 30 games and suddenly those laughing at "bad takes" have become the bad takes themselves.

In regards to the trade, I think the bigger question that needs to be answered after this trade is just wtf is going on with Calgary and their development of players? It is a culture thing? Trickle down effect from upper management?

Seems like all their young guys are regressing and have been for the last couple of seasons. Then you hear how they've handled guys like Bennett, Kylington and Jankowski and you start to question what that locker room and front office environment is like.

I'm not bashing the Flames, as a Panthers fan we have also dealt with our fair share of incompetence and lack of accountability both in the locker room and with management. "Need for accountability" was quote we heard the most from Zito when he was hired.

It makes me wonder what a guys like Gaudeau and Tkachuk could be doing in a more stable environment. Looking at Treliving's trade history, it seemed like he tried to accelerate success instead of letting the team grow naturally but at this point what success has he had to keep his position? I never would've let him hire Sutter this season and would've fired the whole cast and crew come June. Looks like Calgary will be treading water until then.

I thought the same thing. The Flames are broken. It wouldn't surprise me to see almost any player on the team have more success elsewhere, Gaudreau chief among them.

 

[tfong]

There's no point in chirping "bad takes" because for all we know Bennett disappears and scores 2 points in his next 30 games and suddenly those laughing at "bad takes" have become the bad takes themselves.

In regards to the trade, I think the bigger question that needs to be answered after this trade is just wtf is going on with Calgary and their development of players? It is a culture thing? Trickle down effect from upper management?

Seems like all their young guys are regressing and have been for the last couple of seasons. Then you hear how they've handled guys like Bennett, Kylington and Jankowski and you start to question what that locker room and front office environment is like.

I'm not bashing the Flames, as a Panthers fan we have also dealt with our fair share of incompetence and lack of accountability both in the locker room and with management. "Need for accountability" was quote we heard the most from Zito when he was hired.

It makes me wonder what a guys like Gaudeau and Tkachuk could be doing in a more stable environment. Looking at Treliving's trade history, it seemed like he tried to accelerate success instead of letting the team grow naturally but at this point what success has he had to keep his position? I never would've let him hire Sutter this season and would've fired the whole cast and crew come June. Looks like Calgary will be treading water until then.

Imo it's definitely a locker room thing along with coaching. What specifics I'm not sure but I'm more than confident in saying the player core group needs an overhaul especially whomever is the "leadership" in there.

 

[DFF]

Examine what his flaws were. To me the ones that stand out were rushing a rebuild and his UFA signings. There's no defending the Hamonic trade. It was brutal. There's no defending the Brouwer, Neal or Stone signings. Again, brutal. He was hamstrung by ownership on his coaching hires other than Peters and D. Sutter. To criticize his draft record is to ignore reality. It has been the best we've seen in this town in 30+ years. If you're rebuilding you aren't trading futures for now or signing long term UFAs. So why would we can the best drafting GM we've had in 30 years if we're going to do a full rebuild?

If you're trying to fix this roster and be competitive right away then I'd bring in new eyes and can Treliving. Let me ask you. Has he been a worse GM than D Sutter, Burke, Feaster, Button, Coates or Risebrough? You have to go back almost 50 years to the 1972 hiring of Cliff Fletcher by Atlanta to find a GM who has done better work. Or go up the road 2.5 hours. Which of their last 5 GMs have done better work? Or go to Vancouver and ask about their last 2.

Comparing to the previous flames GMs is like comparing your current beat up car to a Ford Pinto. Of course, it is better if you are comparing to trash.

Treliving’s flaws are fatal and above all he sucks at roster construction. He failed to develop Bennett and bullied Him out of town. Now it’s his turn.