Firing Darcy Right Now Isn't Fixing Anything

[Sabre Dance]

So your position is that by not trading these guys, they couldn't possibly be committed to a full rebuild and the ensuing "suffering"?

Maybe they were simply thinking...
"Hey, we are going to be awful next year... but WITH Vanek and Miller for a large portion of the season, we will be comparatively awful... like other teams that have bottomed out over the years... you know... like maybe we'll only win 25-30 games.... we'll be terrible... but comparatively terrible.... BUT if we trade them now, and pursue the rest of our plan of making moves only for the future, then we will be ALL TIME AWFUL... like potentially record book awful.... like 9 win awful.... so lets keep them around until the deadline"

Given the way the season has gone (Vanek and Miller are pretty much the only reason we are in most games).... that speculative assessment above would be spot on.

Do you think Vanek's value is higher now? Miller's?

Can you criticize Regier for me, tell me 1 thing he has done wrong in your opinion during the Pegula era.

 

[Jame]

Do you think Vanek's value is higher now? Miller's?

I don't think the difference is that great

I think Vanek's is likely higher, because more teams will be in the market to rent an elite goal scorer.... verse having to commit long term cap space last year

Miller's is likely lower... because, who rents a goalie? Miller's was probably highest in the offseasons (both this year and last), versus as an in season trade.

Can you criticize Regier for me, tell me 1 thing he has done wrong.

1. The Dom/Peca era - Too stubborn, waited too long. Needed to accept the limits ownership put on him, and move quickly to re-establish a future. His failures in this era led to the dreaded Biron Years (Note : Constraints of ownership = primary fault)

2. The Ownerless Rebuild Years - Not much too fault here (which is a large reason he's qualified to run this rebuild... although this rebuild is of a different kind). Constrained by bankruptcy, he still remade the team

3. Golisano Years - Built a contender. Augmented the roster with talent and depth. Failed to build a deep enough blueline to survive a deep post season run. Failed to add premier rental talent (this was the time to go all in). (Note : Constraints of ownership led to crumbling of team he built = primary fault)

4. Pegula Years - Believed too much in his own core after years of failure and went all in by adding to them, instead of tearing it down and starting from scratch (Note: Constraints of ownership : Terry wanted to go for it)

 

[Havok89]

Do you think Vanek's value is higher now? Miller's?

Can you criticize Regier for me, tell me 1 thing he has done wrong in your opinion during the Pegula era.

Both are easier to trade in their final years. I expect Regier to get a haul for Vanek this season, and anything more than a 2nd for Miller is gravy.

Ovbiously the Leino signing was his worst move. Regier was also pressured to make those signing with a new owner. Brad Richards wasn't possible, and Regier got the second best forward available.

 

[Havok89]

I can't say... I don't think the difference is that great thought

I think Vanek's is likely higher, because more teams will be in the market to rent an elite goal scorer.... verse having to commit long term cap space last year

Miller's is likely lower... because, who rents a goalie? Miller's was probably highest in the offseasons (both this year and last), versus as an in season trade.




1. The Dom/Peca era - Too stubborn, waited too long. Needed to accept the limits ownership put on him, and move quickly to re-establish a future. His failures in this era led to the dreaded Biron Years (Note : Constraints of ownership = primary fault)

2. The Ownerless Rebuild Years - Not much too fault here (which is a large reason he's qualified to run this rebuild... although this rebuild is of a different kind). Constrained by bankruptcy, he still remade the team

3. Golisano Years - Built a contender. Augmented the roster with talent and depth. Failed to build a deep enough blueline to survive a deep post season run. Failed to add premier rental talent (this was the time to go all in). (Note : Constraints of ownership led to crumbling of team he built = primary fault)

4. Pegula Years - Believed too much in his own core after years of failure and went all in by adding to them, instead of tearing it down and starting from scratch

Tearing it down wasn't really a possibility with a new ownership giving him a blank check, and the pressure to make a splash in the UFA market.

 

[Jame]

Tearing it down wasn't really a possibility with a new ownership giving him a blank check, and the pressure to make a splash in the UFA market.

agreed

it's fair to criticize in hindsight, as long as you provide the full context, and can justify it

 

[Sabre Dance]

I don't think the difference is that great

I think Vanek's is likely higher, because more teams will be in the market to rent an elite goal scorer.... verse having to commit long term cap space last year

Miller's is likely lower... because, who rents a goalie? Miller's was probably highest in the offseasons (both this year and last), versus as an in season trade.




1. The Dom/Peca era - Too stubborn, waited too long. Needed to accept the limits ownership put on him, and move quickly to re-establish a future. His failures in this era led to the dreaded Biron Years (Note : Constraints of ownership = primary fault)

2. The Ownerless Rebuild Years - Not much too fault here (which is a large reason he's qualified to run this rebuild... although this rebuild is of a different kind). Constrained by bankruptcy, he still remade the team

3. Golisano Years - Built a contender. Augmented the roster with talent and depth. Failed to build a deep enough blueline to survive a deep post season run. Failed to add premier rental talent (this was the time to go all in). (Note : Constraints of ownership led to crumbling of team he built = primary fault)

4. Pegula Years - Believed too much in his own core after years of failure and went all in by adding to them, instead of tearing it down and starting from scratch (Note: Constraints of ownership : Terry wanted to go for it)

I cant really think of a goalie like Miller that has been available? You would have traded Miller 2 years after winning the Vezina. I dont think there is a comparable. I don't think the Sabres wanted to trade Miller, still might not want to.

Vanek Im not really sure about. I do believe Vanek's value was higher at some point before his injury. I do think Regier will still get a great deal for him now, but the criticism there really is about planning for the 2013 draft class.

 

[Jame]

I cant really think of a goalie like Miller that has been available? You would have traded Miller 2 years after winning the Vezina. I dont think there is a comparable. I don't think the Sabres wanted to trade Miller, still might not want to

His name is Luongo... and he was traded for scraps
Theodore was traded a few years after winning the vezina too... for essentially nothing...

Vanek Im not really sure about. I do believe Vanek's value was higher at some point before his injury. I do think Regier will still get a great deal for him now, but the criticism there really is about planning for the 2013 draft class

Depends... what value do you place on Vanek's assistance in Hodgson's development? I bet that never even crossed your mind. He's been a mentor to Armia.... there's a bigger picture than you seem to be willing to consider... your view is "Trade Vanek get a better draft pick"....

You want everything to fit into a nice little box

 

[Moskau]

Why would we have traded Miller after he won the Vezina? Not only that but with a new owner taking over? Am I completely missing something? Why didn't San Jose trade Cheechoo after Joe Thorton carried him to a Rocket Richard? They obviously should have had the foresight to trade him at his highest value.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Firing Darcy immediately gives the new GM a chances to evaluate.

Darcy should be fired not to improve the team in the short term, but because I don't want him to be in charge of the rebuild.

 

[ZZamboni]

Letting Regier fix this team is like asking any politician to help fix our economy.

Lets just call it what it is though, Regier is trying to clean up his own mess. That is why there is frustration. The rebuild sounds great, we have been asking for it for years and ignored by the same GM that is now doing it.

Fixed for accuracy.


Jame is right. This fanbase on a whole is too soft and too impatient for a rebuild. They should find enjoyment in following teams on the rise after rebuilds.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Fixed for accuracy.


Jame is right. This fanbase on a whole is too soft and too impatient for a rebuild. They should find enjoyment in following teams on the rise after rebuilds.

The fans are not chanting "Grigorenko sucks". They are chanting "fire Regier". This started about 5 games into the rebuild. Its denial if you dont think Regier is the reason for the fans early frustration.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Why would we have traded Miller after he won the Vezina? Not only that but with a new owner taking over? Am I completely missing something? Why didn't San Jose trade Cheechoo after Joe Thorton carried him to a Rocket Richard? They obviously should have had the foresight to trade him at his highest value.

2 years after he won the Vezina.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

The fans are not chanting "Grigorenko sucks". They are chanting "fire Regier". This started about 5 games into the rebuild. Its denial if you dont think Regier is the reason for the fans early frustration.

The same fans that boo former players coming back and FB fans that **** on stories about players getting married, or this past week with players visiting outreach groups? Quite a bit of the fan base has turned into the Mcdonalds / twitter mindset of 'we want it now'. It doesn't matter if it's right, just in their hands now.

 

[Sabre Dance]

His name is Luongo... and he was traded for scraps
Theodore was traded a few years after winning the vezina too... for essentially nothing...



Depends... what value do you place on Vanek's assistance in Hodgson's development? I bet that never even crossed your mind. He's been a mentor to Armia.... there's a bigger picture than you seem to be willing to consider... your view is "Trade Vanek get a better draft pick"....

You want everything to fit into a nice little box

Are those the best examples? Theodore fell apart. Why would you even mention that? Miller was still winning and his save% was right in the middle on a non playoff team.

And what about Luongo? The Panthers had to trade him or let him walk. He would not sign there. Not even close to a similar situation. Its closer to the situation Regier is in now, although everyone tells me waiting until the deadline is best.

The Vanek point you are trying to make is crazy.

 

[Sabre Dance]

The same fans that boo former players coming back and FB fans that **** on stories about players getting married, or this past week with players visiting outreach groups? Quite a bit of the fan base has turned into the Mcdonalds / twitter mindset of 'we want it now'. It doesn't matter if it's right, just in their hands now.

Same fans that have been booing for a couple years. Home ice has been miserable. But now we want to act like its all new, like the fans have not been wanting Regier gone.

Paul Hamilton today was great, should listen.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

Firing DR today is going to fix what for tomorrow?
If a new GM comes in tomorrow and provides the same result, then what?

 

[Jame]

Are those the best examples? Theodore fell apart. Why would you even mention that? Miller was still winning and his save% was right in the middle on a non playoff team.

And what about Luongo? The Panthers had to trade him or let him walk. He would not sign there. Not even close to a similar situation. Its closer to the situation Regier is in now, although everyone tells me waiting until the deadline is best.

The Vanek point you are trying to make is crazy.

you're too smart for me

 

[Jame]

Same fans that have been booing for a couple years. Home ice has been miserable. But now we want to act like its all new, like the fans have not been wanting Regier gone.

Paul Hamilton today was great, should listen.

makes perfect sense now

 

[Jame]

The fans are not chanting "Grigorenko sucks". They are chanting "fire Regier". This started about 5 games into the rebuild. Its denial if you dont think Regier is the reason for the fans early frustration.

the fans are morons who can't comprehend more than following an imaginary arrow to what they think is the top, and placing all the blame for their frustration their.

the fan base chanting fire regier are tools

the minority is chanting, "we're starting over... you didn't get your way... now shut your mouths"

 

[FanboySlayer*]

Good franchises with good GMs don't need to put their fans through years and years of suffering to build a winner. Losers do it that way and that includes the Pittsburgh Penguins, who not only tanked, they tanked in years where the prizes were generational and Hall of Fame players. They very obviously tanked to get Lemieux in a disgustingly unsportsmanlike fashion for which the NHL should have awarded New Jersey the top pick to punish them. Detroit hasn't needed to go through this ugliness in decades because of astute management. There are other teams that don't fall to the dark place we are in now in order to get better.

Most teams go through boom and bust cycles, some more dramatically than others at either end, most Sabres fans understand this and are ready for a rebuild but we are being subjected to something no other fan base has been forced to take, having their team rebuilt by the very same man responsible for running it into the ground.


NO TEAM IN ANY SPORT WITH A GM WHO HAS NOT WON A CHAMPIONSHIP HAS EVER COMMITTED TO A TOTAL REBUILD WITH THE SAME BOOB IN CHARGE WHO MADE THE REBUILD NECESSARY.

How innovative we are

Pegula should have gotten rid of Regier and Ruff when he bought the team. He gave them their opportunity, gave Regier a blank check, it didn't work, a rebuild was now the logical next stage. Ruff was rightfully fired, Regier should have been out the door ahead of him. In 29 other cities he would have been. The hostility and impatience of this fan base is understandable and valid. It's those who whistle past the graveyard and act like there's nothing wrong with Regier still being in charge who have lost their rationality. We are a dysfunctional organization, the rest of the league, the fans in 29 other cities, the media, all see it and confounded by it.

 

[Sabre Dance]

the fans are morons who can't comprehend more than following an imaginary arrow to what they think is the top, and placing all the blame for their frustration their.

the fan base chanting fire regier are tools

the minority is chanting, "we're starting over... you didn't get your way... now shut your mouths"

Albert Einstein once gave his definition of insanity.

 

[Ruckus007]

Is it really a good idea to push this idea that fans who disagree with you are some how stupid, misguided or less of a fan? Not everyone cares about the Sabres in the same way or for the same reasons. This tone that's developed here on HF in these rebuilding arguments is that anyone who believes that they shouldn't burn the forest, draft, and revisit in 3 years should be kicked out of First Niagara is really counterproductive.

People have a right to a dissenting opinion.

 

[Jame]

Albert Einstein once gave his definition of insanity.

Since we are doing something we literally have never done before, I have to ask which Einstein you are taking about

 

[Clock]

I wonder how many fans would be calling for Regier's head if the team were over, say, .600 right now.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

I wonder how many fans would be calling for Regier's head if the team were over, say, .600 right now.

I have called for Regiers he's since the year before we won the Presidents cup.


I do not have faith in Darcy to do what is needed to push this franchise over the edge. I think he could build a competitor. He can build a very good team.

I do not think he is aggressive enough to take a very good team and do what is necessary to make it a great team.

It's that simple.