Fire Tocchet

[rt]

Just think about this as well. Minny is going to make the playoffs, they got rid of Zucker and picked up a 1st. So they're going to make the playoffs and get an extra #1 pick in the process...that's how you're supposed to do it. Good for them!

Then there is the Coyote Way! The complete Opposite. Give up a 1st to make the playoffs and then miss out - complete FAIL! Fire Tocchet!

Yep.

 

[Jakey53]

One mistake led to the other. After acquiring Hall, the entire team took a massive shit. When all of your players shut-down and stop playing, you fire the coach. Our failure to fire Tocchet and replace him with an upgrade put us in the position where we had no choice but to sell at the TDL. Chayka opted to do nothing about his coach, which left him in a position to sell at the TDL, and he opted to do nothing at the deadline. Both blunders are 100% Chayka's fault. It's not Tocchet's fault that Chayka failed to fire him in time to save the season. It's not Hall's fault that Chayka failed to trade him once all hope was lost. This mess is Chayka's. He did this.

Why did the entire team take a massive shit? I thought acquiring Hall would really help Schmaltz and Keller, but that did not happen, in fact the opposite happened. It was a choke job and you have to point fingers at RT. This team is not that bad, not a SC contender, but a playoff contender. I hope RT is fired and our owner hires an experienced hockey operations guy that Chayka reports to. We need an successful, experience set of eyes helping Chayka.

 

[rt]

Why did the entire team take a massive shit? .

Check the second sentence of my post you quoted.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Saw a twitter poll regarding the firing of RT - he still had the majority in support. I'm amazed that even the casual fan doesn't get it. This roster should be capable of making the playoffs. Not doing so is failure and replacing RT is the only logical step at this point.

 

[Jamieh]

Saw a twitter poll regarding the firing of RT - he still had the majority in support. I'm amazed that even the casual fan doesn't get it. This roster should be capable of making the playoffs. Not doing so is failure and replacing RT is the only logical step at this point.

Of the teams that we are fighting for a playoff spot with, who do you think we have a better roster than?

 

[TheLegend]

Saw a twitter poll regarding the firing of RT - he still had the majority in support. I'm amazed that even the casual fan doesn't get it. This roster should be capable of making the playoffs. Not doing so is failure and replacing RT is the only logical step at this point.

Casual fans aren’t fantasy sports geeks. They don’t go looking into every nook and cranny to find blame.

 

[XX]

Casual fans aren’t fantasy sports geeks. They don’t go looking into every nook and cranny to find blame.

Math is math. Apparently a lot of people suck at it.

Tocchet shouldn't be on the plane for the road trip if they lose tonight.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

Casual fans aren’t fantasy sports geeks. They don’t go looking into every nook and cranny to find blame.

Idk if you really have to dig that deep to see that this team isn't playing very well. 6 wins in 21 games is evident to anyone watching...casual or not. Wins and losses are something everyone sees. If it's a valid poll... Maybe casual fans were tricked by the broadcast and the games in hand thinking this team was in a playoff spot until just this last week or so. I suspect if and when the team misses, the poll would be less positive. But who knows.

That said, internet polls aren't very trustworthy imo. Trolls and people messing around skew results too often.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[TheLegend]

Math is math. Apparently a lot of people suck at it.

Tocchet shouldn't be on the plane for the road trip if they lose tonight.

It’s not they suck at it. It’s just they don’t care about a portion of fans who try playing smartest guy in the room.

 

[TheLegend]

Idk if you really have to dig that deep to see that this team isn't playing very well. 6 wins in 21 games is evident to anyone watching...casual or not. Wins and losses are something everyone sees. If it's a valid poll... Maybe casual fans were tricked by the broadcast and the games in hand thinking this team was in a playoff spot until just this last week or so. I suspect if and when the team misses, the poll would be less positive. But who knows.

That said, internet polls aren't very trustworthy imo. Trolls and people messing around skew results too often.

But that's just my opinion.

Polls suck in general.

I periodically scan the Yotes hashtag and there’s a wide variety of opinions out there. Everything from the perennial Negative Nancies to those that will go down with the Titanic.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Polls suck in general.

I periodically scan the Yotes hashtag and there’s a wide variety of opinions out there. Everything from the perennial Negative Nancies to those that will go down with the Titanic.

No different than what you see here then.

 

[TheLegend]

No different than what you see here then.

A lot different. Most people you see here are willing to dig deeper into the team.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

A lot different. Most people you see here are willing to dig deeper into the team.

Yet the end result is the same.

 

[TheLegend]

Yet the end result is the same.

No it isn’t... not from what I’ve seen so we’ll simply have to agree to disagree.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, please ....you're both right, people here do dig deeper and we have people on all sections of the smiley face/frowny face spectrum (although maybe a few more of the latter)

And while I type that kopitar scores in Vegas in the first 2 mins

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, please ....you're both right, people here do dig deeper and we have people on all sections of the smiley face/frowny face spectrum (although maybe a few more of the latter)

And while I type that kopitar scores in Vegas in the first 2 mins

And now a second!

 

[che]

"uhh, you know.... uuuuhh accountability.... you know, I don't know. We uuhhh, guys need to be accountable"

Where the f is your accountability, coach?

Get him out

 

[knich]

As I mentioned in another post is that most of us had the Coyotes missing the playoffs or a bubble team, and now we are talking about this crash and burn and pointing fingers at everyone. So, did the team under perform? Did they over perform earlier in the year? Would a different coach have done better? My thought and opinion is that a better coach could have gotten us to the playoffs this year, without Hall.

I think the biggest miscalculation was Chayka's. He is the one, starting with OEL who has not done much since his big 22 goal season, who gave out huge contracts to untested players when I don't think he had to. The core players had not shown that they could perform at a high level when the pressure was on. We saw that clearly after Kemper went down. The reality is that Kemper hid a number of warts on this team. Once Kemper went down and we were still top in the division, we started to choke. And we kept choking. Heck we were still choking right up to the game against Buffalo when we were no longer considered officially a playoff team. Keller looked like he had been freed. Yet even when there was clear desperation this team disappeared at times during the Buffalo game. And Chayka did not add the grit this team is sorely lacking.

I also blame Toch (and I like Toch) because he made very poor decisions in keeping Maclean and hiring Hously. Neither has done anything to improve the team. Toch has not shown he is great with X and Os, doesn't make needed in game adjustments (heck he doesn't make out of game adjustments) and he doesn't hold his players accountable (even though he preaches it after EVERY loss). He continues to play top minutes to guys like Kessel because they are friends (and Toch clearly played large role in bringing Kessel) even though Kessel has been arguably our worst player. Kessel IMO should have been a healthy scratch more than Grabner. And why has no one reported on Grabner. He is NOT our worst player... by far, despite his eye injury.

Toch's strength as a player was his grittyness and accountability. I have seen neither with the Yotes. This team does not play with urgency, can't get a puck out of its own zone if their lives depended on it (this is the root of alot of their on ice problems), and no one is held to account. Pathetic!! I agree mostly with RT. The writing was on the wall along time ago. I don't agree with trading Hall though. Toch though should have been replaced. Chayka made the mistakes but Toch has done nothing to get the most from those mistakes. I don't recall us ever free falling with Tip. Gallant would have been my first choice then Lavi.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I think the biggest miscalculation was Chayka's. He is the one, starting with OEL who has not done much since his big 22 goal season, who gave out huge contracts to untested players when I don't think he had to. The core players had not shown that they could perform at a high level when the pressure was on. We saw that clearly after Kemper went down. The reality is that Kemper hid a number of warts on this team. Once Kemper went down and we were still top in the division, we started to choke. And we kept choking. Heck we were still choking right up to the game against Buffalo when we were no longer considered officially a playoff team. Keller looked like he had been freed. Yet even when there was clear desperation this team disappeared at times during the Buffalo game. And Chayka did not add the grit this team is sorely lacking.

I also blame Toch (and I like Toch) because he made very poor decisions in keeping Maclean and hiring Hously. Neither has done anything to improve the team. Toch has not shown he is great with X and Os, doesn't make needed in game adjustments (heck he doesn't make out of game adjustments) and he doesn't hold his players accountable (even though he preaches it after EVERY loss). He continues to play top minutes to guys like Kessel because they are friends (and Toch clearly played large role in bringing Kessel) even though Kessel has been arguably our worst player. Kessel IMO should have been a healthy scratch more than Grabner. And why has no one reported on Grabner. He is NOT our worst player... by far, despite his eye injury.

Toch's strength as a player was his grittyness and accountability. I have seen neither with the Yotes. This team does not play with urgency, can't get a puck out of its own zone if their lives depended on it (this is the root of alot of their on ice problems), and no one is held to account. Pathetic!! I agree mostly with RT. The writing was on the wall along time ago. I don't agree with trading Hall though. Toch though should have been replaced. Chayka made the mistakes but Toch has done nothing to get the most from those mistakes. I don't recall us ever free falling with Tip. Gallant would have been my first choice then Lavi.

Regarding the first paragraph, I think that it is important to distinguish why this approach is being used. As people have already stated, there is concern about giving a player like Hall an 8th year without knowing how his body may start to break down, which could be a year's worth of poor stats, or even 2-3 years. He will be 36 or 37 when the deal ends, which is a pretty old age.

I guess it comes down to the question of whether or not you would prefer to pay out a little early and maybe miss on the first year or two as the player becomes a quality player in the league.

On one side, you may be trying to value how that player is going to become better, which means you may oversell his presence early. If that player never pans out, then you have a really awful deal. Whereas the veteran signing likely means not panning out until later in their career, but just like when the youth rises up, it is hard to predict when that exact turn is going to happen. In all honesty, the safer play is to do what Chayka is doing and try to hit the best value of the contract for the time when the player is likely to be at their best - between the ages of 22-27 or so. Not every player is exactly like that, but I would much rather put money into an asset that is likely to appreciate, as opposed to one that is likely to depreciate.

That's why I kind of look at this with Chayka and say that he was not the issue. Kessel was brought on to also help mentor the players like Schmaltz and Keller. When you look at it from all angles, Chayka has been supportive of the way to grow the team and getting players to help grow the team. The coaching staff has not given the means to put this team in a good enough position consistently.

I will hold off until the end of the season to figure out what is going on. We are still in the mix - beat Vancouver three times in the 3 games that we play against them, and we have turned it back into our favor. Hopefully, Stone's injury affects Vegas, although they have created enough separation to probably be okay. But, if we fail to make it, we have to get rid of Tocchet.

 

[YotesFan47]

We have 9 must win games against teams ahead of us and probably need another 3 wins against some other teams to ensure we qualify. That means we can afford 3 losses to non conference/low in standings teams.

We are 9-16 over the last 2 months. If we had gone roughly 50% in that span we would not be in this situation. 4 more wins is all it would take to put us tied for 1st with Vegas. 3 more sets us solidly in 2nd. Instead we sucked our way through 2 months. My expectations are very low that we can go 9-6 (90 points), forget 12-3 (96 pts).

We are boned. See you next season boys.

 

[rt]

We have 9 must win games against teams ahead of us and probably need another 3 wins against some other teams to ensure we qualify. That means we can afford 3 losses to non conference/low in standings teams.

We are 9-16 over the last 2 months. If we had gone roughly 50% in that span we would not be in this situation. 4 more wins is all it would take to put us tied for 1st with Vegas. 3 more sets us solidly in 2nd. Instead we sucked our way through 2 months. My expectations are very low that we can go 9-6 (90 points), forget 12-3 (96 pts).

We are boned. See you next season boys.

This is correct. Can I just say yet again that I HATE the loser point?

All wins should count as wins and all losses should count as losses. If you want to track win type categories and loss type categories for tie-breaking purposes, that's fine. But the points system is idiotic and should be abandoned immediately.

 

[MIGs Dog]

We have 9 must win games against teams ahead of us and probably need another 3 wins against some other teams to ensure we qualify. That means we can afford 3 losses to non conference/low in standings teams.

We are 9-16 over the last 2 months. If we had gone roughly 50% in that span we would not be in this situation. 4 more wins is all it would take to put us tied for 1st with Vegas. 3 more sets us solidly in 2nd. Instead we sucked our way through 2 months. My expectations are very low that we can go 9-6 (90 points), forget 12-3 (96 pts).

We are boned. See you next season boys.

10 wins (92 pts) might get r dun

 

[rt]

If we win our next 4 games in a row and then go 5-5-1 over the last 11, that's 91 points.

W - Mar04 VAN
W - Mar06 CGY
W - Mar09 WPG
W - Mar12 VAN
L - Mar14 NYR
L - Mar16 DAL
L - Mar18 VGK
W - Mar20 DET
W - Mar22 LAK
OTL-Mar25 VGK
L - Mar28 NSH
W - Mar29 SJS
L - Mar31 COL
W - Apr02 VAN
W - Apr04 WPG

 

[YotesFan47]

10 wins (92 pts) might get r dun

Might, that's what it would have taken them last year + beating Colorado. Even 10-5 is still seemingly a lot to ask for with the way they've played the last 2 months. Record aside, they've maybe had a handful of good games as a group in the new year. At least through the first 12 weeks I thought we played well more often than not. This new group looks pathetic and I don't think anything has changed to suggest we will turn a corner.

Edit: I should mention I don't watch every game so I may have just caught more good games earlier on and more bad games in the new year. Regardless, based on what I've seen, this team has regressed and the record supports that.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Might, that's what it would have taken them last year + beating Colorado. Even 10-5 is still seemingly a lot to ask for with the way they've played the last 2 months. Record aside, they've maybe had a handful of good games as a group in the new year. At least through the first 12 weeks I thought we played well more often than not. This new group looks pathetic and I don't think anything has changed to suggest we will turn a corner.

Edit: I should mention I don't watch every game so I may have just caught more good games earlier on and more bad games in the new year. Regardless, based on what I've seen, this team has regressed and the record supports that.

I'd say you've got it right.

Win the next 3 and we could control our destiny. Lose the next 3 and it's sayonara.