Fire Tocchet #2

[Jormungandr]

How is Tocchet in the middle tier? He should, at minimum, be in the “sweating profusely” tier. Shit is getting ridiculous. It’s becoming more and more obvious that no one gives a shit in upper management/ownership.

 

[XX]

I think BA wants him gone but Meruelo is still in love and falling for all the propaganda floated his way. After all, nobody ever has anything negative to say about Tocchet.

You wouldn't hear all these bullshit stories puffing up Tocchet unless there was a receptive audience for them.

 

[Foggy1097]

I think BA wants him gone but Meruelo is still in love and falling for all the propaganda floated his way. After all, nobody ever has anything negative to say about Tocchet.

You wouldn't hear all these bullshit stories puffing up Tocchet unless there was a receptive audience for them.

If Meruelo is going to remain loyal to Tocchet over the GM he just signed to a 5 year deal building this thing from almost the ground up, then he’s not as smart as I gave him credit for. If he was smart and taking advice from other smart owners out their that he admires like Vinik in TB, he would be telling BA to do whatever he feels necessary and let the chips fall where they may. That’s what he hired him to do.
I think it only makes sense to let Tocchet ride out the year if you’re trying to keep your plans a bit of a mystery to other teams. The day the season ends you fire him and go hard after Van Ryn or whoever your guy is and maybe beat some other team to the punch.
If the market crashes before the end of the season and the economy takes another major downturn then it’s all probably moot anyway. Meruelo is going to be f***ed.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

This team is very average and clearly is going to struggle to make the playoffs.

Ownership (and Doan) might just feel that firing a former Coyotes player, a guy respected in the game, three months before the end of his contract would attract another wave of negative PR unnecessarily.

BA might have his next coach lined up (Van Ryn) and be ok to let the current season play out with this roster players minus the UFA-to-be who he will happily ship for picks at the deadline.

I am expecting a new head coach and assistants and major roster changes this summer.

 

[Mosby]

On his podcast Craig defended Tocchet saying, what do you expect, look at the roster he was given. Same excuse every year. Good god.

 

[PuckLife]

I used to like Craig...

 

[XX]

On his podcast Craig defended Tocchet saying, what do you expect, look at the roster he was given. Same excuse every year. Good god.

Craig is a known Tocchet simp.

Tocchet had the most talented roster of the last ten years last year and did nothing with it. Actually, that's not true. He got his star goalie hurt by leaving him in a game that was out of hand. That's something, I suppose.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Being loyal to RT has more professional value to Craig than questioning the head coach's performance.

A pragmatic long game if you will.

 

[rt]

Chayka continually switched out pieces not currently performing for Tocchet (Domi, Duclair, Strome, Perlini, Galchenyuk, and futures) for pieces with very strong track-records I’d offensive production, even recent production prior to the trades (Galchenyuk, Panik, Schmaltz, Kessel, Stepan and Hall).

There was a continuous cycle of once promising offensive talents that were homegrown under the previous regime, sent away while hand-picked, more established talent that was supposedly a good fit for Tocchet was brought in. Chayka completely cycled through the very top of the lineup for Tocchet multiple times.

The one constant? Failure to produce offensively. Not only did the likes of Duclair, Domi, Perlini, and Strome fail to produce under Tocchet, so did Stepan, Panik, Galchenyuk and Kessel. Even Schmaltz and Hall have been disappointing from a pure production standpoint.

What has Tocchet accomplished that entitles him to another GM turning over the top of his roster to suit him yet again? Why should this guy get so many chances? His career as an NHL head coach has been a abject failure by any objective measure.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

I like Craig alot. As the only damn writer for the team he's fine, but I can't get over his continued excuses for Tocchet. Yes the team obviously is only average on paper, and if they were simply just being outplayed due to that every night that would be one thing.

BUT what we see every night is a total lack of preparation, zero drive, lack of structure and discipline, mismanaged line changes leading to one of the worst offending teams for too-many-men penalties in recent memory, baffling lineup decisions (the 0-goal line), and incessant mishandling of prospects and young players year and in and year out.

At some point Tocchet needs to be held accountable for these things. He has not even close to earned this blameless aura that national media and Craig seem to surround him with. Hell usually all but the best coaches tend to have a shelf-life of around 3-4 years anyway so why is Craig so uppity about people questioning Tocchet?

It's the coach's job to get the most of out players, and for every season Tocchet has been here there has never been more than maybe a couple guys who play at or above expectations, and far too many that fall way too far below. He's just a good head coach holy shit.

 

[XX]

Never assume that someone who works in/around hockey professionally has developed a critical eye for it.

Some random guy I've never heard of wrote circles around Craig with that hockeywriters article. He didn't even cover every angle and still built a damning case against Tocchet.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

If Craig wants to be taken seriously and have any actual journalistic integrity, then he has to open his eyes to the truth. The players have been changed time and time again and the results are the same or worse.

If he closes his eyes to it and keeps pushing this false narrative... he's just a joke. Like Tocchet is as a head coach.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I think it only makes sense to let Tocchet ride out the year

The reason you fire him now is to assess the players under a different coach. A bunch of guys are underperforming. Need to see if a different coach can do a better job maximizing talent before the FA season starts.

 

[rt]

Craig isn’t alone. Before the COVID shut-down, the Athletic did a survey for the Pacific Division, featuring the staff writer for each team. Tocchet received unanimously glowing reviews from all. As I remember it, each seemed to think Tocchet was the best or only good thing the team had going for it.

 

[rt]

This post was from BEFORE this season, so the stats aren’t current.

“OEL finished top 10 in Norris voting twice under his last coach. He scored 20+ goals a year and was absolutely elite. Then Tippett walks.

The Coyotes bring in Tocchet and he immediately clashes with OEL. It’s been drama ever since. All skill players suffer under Tocchet.

Domi's production as a Hab is 62 points per 82 games versus 49 points per 82 games as a Coyote.

Duclair's production as a Coyote was 35 points per 82 games versus 50 points per 82 games last season (40/82 since leaving).

Stepan’s points per 82 in NY was 55 (including the playoffs). In Arizona it has been 43 (including the playoffs).

Stepan was the model of consistent production before arriving to play under Tocchet. His production has fallen off a cliff since he arrived.

The longer Domi and Duclair played for Tocchet, the worse they got. Their careers have taken off since being free of him.

As for their replacements, Galchenyuk (two years removed from a 30g season) was reduced to 4th line 5v5 ice time as a pure power pay specialist. Richard Panik never made an impact, despite being two years removed from a 22g, 22a season.

Dylan Strome put up historically elite junior numbers. Putting him in the company of all-star NHL players. He completely floundered under Tocchet. He’s been so much better since being free of Tocchet.

His replacement Nick Schmaltz was coming off of 21g 52pt season and initially looked shot out of a cannon when he arrived. The longer he’s played for Tocchet, the more muted his game has become. He does less of of what made him effective and more of what makes him ineffective. This stifling is a common theme.

Kessel sure hasn’t impressed. He just had by far the worst season of his entire hockey career. Going back to middle-school.

Even Hall, a year removed from an MVP season had his production dip to a personal low.”

 

[RemoAZ]

People still remember Tocc the player. He was a heart and sole guy that was also a star. Hard not to love him and it seems he was everyone's friend inside the game. Lots of people are showing loyalty stepping up for him. Have to admire that but also can't let it affect your decision to do what's best for the team if you're Bill Armstrong.

 

[Foggy1097]

The reason you fire him now is to assess the players under a different coach. A bunch of guys are underperforming. Need to see if a different coach can do a better job maximizing talent before the FA season starts.

Right I hear you, but you’re assessing the players under a coach that you’re likely not going to keep as your HC anyway, so does it really matter that much? I don’t think a whole lot. No matter who is the new coach, you’re always going to see an initial spike in some players energy and compete level because they all know they’re on a new clean slate...I’m fine with firing him midseason, I just want it done. But I could see waiting until the off-season only for the reason of keeping other teams in the dark as to what you’re planning on doing...

 

[cobra427]

This post was from BEFORE this season, so the stats aren’t current.

“OEL finished top 10 in Norris voting twice under his last coach. He scored 20+ goals a year and was absolutely elite. Then Tippett walks.

The Coyotes bring in Tocchet and he immediately clashes with OEL. It’s been drama ever since. All skill players suffer under Tocchet.

Domi's production as a Hab is 62 points per 82 games versus 49 points per 82 games as a Coyote.

Duclair's production as a Coyote was 35 points per 82 games versus 50 points per 82 games last season (40/82 since leaving).

Stepan’s points per 82 in NY was 55 (including the playoffs). In Arizona it has been 43 (including the playoffs).

Stepan was the model of consistent production before arriving to play under Tocchet. His production has fallen off a cliff since he arrived.

The longer Domi and Duclair played for Tocchet, the worse they got. Their careers have taken off since being free of him.

As for their replacements, Galchenyuk (two years removed from a 30g season) was reduced to 4th line 5v5 ice time as a pure power pay specialist. Richard Panik never made an impact, despite being two years removed from a 22g, 22a season.

Dylan Strome put up historically elite junior numbers. Putting him in the company of all-star NHL players. He completely floundered under Tocchet. He’s been so much better since being free of Tocchet.

His replacement Nick Schmaltz was coming off of 21g 52pt season and initially looked shot out of a cannon when he arrived. The longer he’s played for Tocchet, the more muted his game has become. He does less of of what made him effective and more of what makes him ineffective. This stifling is a common theme.

Kessel sure hasn’t impressed. He just had by far the worst season of his entire hockey career. Going back to middle-school.

Even Hall, a year removed from an MVP season had his production dip to a personal low.”

Agree with most of this, players decelerate under RT and accelerate away from him, not all but too many. RT doesn't get the most out of his players and his team is inconsistent. Look at the 2 games against the ducks, down 3-0 in both, then Colorado blows us out twice, now Mini kills us twice.

Why not let him go now? Let the assistants take over, try some other voice strategy, we might gain something and some players might perform better?

 

[moosemeister]

We had what looked like a great first line for the first time in who knows how long.

He promotes his shower time butt buddy to that line and it completely falls apart.

Fire the f*** out of him and Housley. They’re not cut out for the job.

 

[rt]

Agree with most of this, players decelerate under RT and accelerate away from him, not all but too many. RT doesn't get the most out of his players and his team is inconsistent. Look at the 2 games against the ducks, down 3-0 in both, then Colorado blows us out twice, now Mini kills us twice.

Why not let him go now? Let the assistants take over, try some other voice strategy, we might gain something and some players might perform better?

Craig can say Tocchet never had the pieces. He can say that Tocchet’s record is circumstantial. Correlation rather than causation. But there’s no denying that a bunch of talent underperformed under Tocchet and was shipped out for new talent that better suited him. This talent also underperformed. The list of names is way too long. And there are no examples of the inverse. None.

Additionally, no one has exceeded expectations during his tenure other than Garland. A player he refused to play more than fourth line United until he was sustaining the team lead in goal scoring with 11-12mins ice time. Apart from a guy he misused and mistreated and forced to overcome impossible odds, there hasn’t been a single meaningful pleasant surprise.

So is any of that the kind of PROOF Craig wants that Tocchet is actually the problem? No. No it’s not. Craig is absolutely right about that.

But and I’m talking BIG BUUUT ...it does prove something. It is irrefutable proof that Tocchet is NOT a solution to the problem. The sample size is huge. It’s an enormous sample size for a coach with such horrifically bad results. And the sample size does prove without a shadow of a doubt that he’s not the solution.

A coach who was going to turn the team around wouldn’t just have a better W%. He’d have players exceeding expectations. He’d have pleasant surprises. He’d habe at least some examples of players playing their best under him, and not as well before and after him. Tocchet has none of that. And he’s also got a ton of the opposite. That much is clear.

 

[XX]

Good coaches don't use their roster as an excuse. They make the most of what they have. Tocchet can't even get the team to be plucky with two excellent goalies.

 

[BUX7PHX]

The reason you fire him now is to assess the players under a different coach. A bunch of guys are underperforming. Need to see if a different coach can do a better job maximizing talent before the FA season starts.

I somewhat disagree with the logic that some guys are underperforming. Dvorak and Chychrun are on career years. Schmaltz is looking better. Even with the time that OEL has missed, he is on pace for something like 54 or 55 points, prior to the current game.

I think it is more that we just have these moments where we look completely discombobulated with what the other team is doing. The mistakes are more mental than physical, moreso than any other stretch of time with coaches. I think Tocchet is like Strome - when adversity hits, he doesn't really know how to combat it. Self-actualization just doesn't exist. If the statement about wanting a raise is true, that furthers the point. Name the last time someone a raise for being average, at best? One play-in series win against a Predator team that was sliding does not make up for the inconsistencies that have plagued this team.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Craig is a known Tocchet simp.

And before that, he was a Tippett and Smith stan. It is what it is.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

These slow starts are killing me. Tocc needs to gooooo. I really love this teams core, and I think the future is bright with our youth. But he's going to hold this team back from what they can really accomplish. A guy like Boudreau or Torts would do wonders for this group.

 

[RABBIT]

Chych is f***in sickkkkkk