Fire Ken Holland

[TheNumber4]

How was it a tough call? The entire media and board were critical as it was announced. Its not like this is some hindsight 20/20 shit.

Not to mention... We just saw the wrong call made and its consequences, and we did the same f***ing thing again.

we weren’t the only team to have taxi squad send downs get lost to waivers wire pickups. It’s different this year and maybe Holland made a mistake in this new environment. Still not enough to discount all the other good he’s done for this team so far.

 

[Mav3rick07]

We just came off a 3 game winning streak and played great last night in Calgary but happen to lose and now the fans want Holland gone ?

This fanbase is so f***ing dramatic.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

not as embarrassing as a franchise with 2 MVPs on it that can't even be average

We are praying for a .500 team at this point. And we still have games left against Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg.

 

[Soundwave]

We just came off a 3 game winning streak and played great last night in Calgary but happen to lose and now the fans want Holland gone ?

This fanbase is so f***ing dramatic.

If by "played great" you mean played well for 1 period but predictably had zero killer instinct and only came out of that with a 1 goal lead and then proceeded to play Eakins-era D for the 2nd and 3rd period ... sure I guess.

The only reason they have a "3 game win streak" is because of two gimmes against Ottawa. They'd be extremely fortunate the win 3 in a row against any of the other 5 teams in the division.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

We just came off a 3 game winning streak and played great last night in Calgary but happen to lose and now the fans want Holland gone ?

This fanbase is so f***ing dramatic.

2 games against an AHL team and still gave up 7 goals against them

 

[Cam98]

I think we should trade everyone and re-enter rebuild #3. It's time boys. No more McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH wearing us down. Dump them for peanuts and lets ride it out!

 

[stratedge]

Turris wasn't the difference between being able to afford Markstrom. Probably no Barrie or Kahun either.

Kahun is making under a million so he's barely over league minimum, so no he would not be a factor. I can understand a little bit why Holland felt he needed Barrie if he knew Klefbom was out, and that's at less than replacement cost for his LTIR.

Soooo... no. Neither of those would factor in, even though I'm not sure what it would have taken to get Markstrom. The flames always seem to outbid the Oilers smartly, getting free agents that pan out well.

 

[gordonhught]

This thread is ridiculous

 

[Oilhawks]

Kahun is making under a million so he's barely over league minimum, so no he would not be a factor. I can understand a little bit why Holland felt he needed Barrie if he knew Klefbom was out, and that's at less than replacement cost for his LTIR.

Soooo... no. Neither of those would factor in, even though I'm not sure what it would have taken to get Markstrom. The flames always seem to outbid the Oilers smartly, getting free agents that pan out well.

Fair on Kahun I suppose. The only way Holland could have used Klefbom's LTIR to sign Barrie would be to have him wait until the season started to sign him, no? I doubt that Barrie would have been willing to wait. Maybe he would have been willing to do what Hoffman did but that's a big risk and if he decided not to wait then you have this D corp starting the season:

Nurse - Bear
Jones - Larsson
4K - Russell
Bouchard

Aside from Markstrom, who have the Flames outbid the Oilers on in FA recently?

 

[stratedge]

Koskinen has been average for us at worst. He had his first legit bad game last night.

He had 4 days of rest and whoever the backup is had absolutely nothing to do with how that game went last night. I'm a Koski supporter and I agree last night was on him. But this thread is ridiculous, and the guy who made it has the mental fortitude of a wet paper bag.

I don't think this is about Koskinen, while I disagree he's been average (he was sub .900 before last night). He's been what I would call "not good enough", but that's not on Holland because he didn't sign him to this untradeable contract.

The issue with Holland is he has no one to push him. I think this thread is about the lack of any other option (aka Smith), and the effect is had, and will continue to have, on the Oiler's playoff hopes.

 

[Oilhawks]

We just came off a 3 game winning streak and played great last night in Calgary but happen to lose and now the fans want Holland gone ?

This fanbase is so f***ing dramatic.

Leavins' 9 Things write up discussing the game and goaltending seemed fairly reasonable. I agree that Grosenick was not worth losing Lagesson and can see why they didn't ask Russell to waive so he can be sent down to the taxi squad if they think it would 'look bad'.

That said, the whispers about trading Bear or Bouchard would make this thread blow up if either came true.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't think this is about Koskinen, while I disagree he's been average (he was sub .900 before last night). He's been what I would call "not good enough", but that's not on Holland because he didn't sign him to this untradeable contract.

The issue with Holland is he has no one to push him. I think this thread is about the lack of any other option (aka Smith), and the effect is had, and will continue to have, on the Oiler's playoff hopes.

I don't necessarily disagree but they also don't really have any defensive rocks on the back end, and coupled with the staggering number of high danger chances the group is making Koski have to face each game I think he's taking more heat than he deserves. I will agree last night was straight bad though.

 

[stratedge]

Aside from Markstrom, who have the Flames outbid the Oilers on in FA recently?

Not recently, but Glencross comes to mind. Talbot > Smith unless you're planning to brawl. I feel like there were some free agent D they got that the Oilers were in on in the last 5 years but I can't remember who.

 

[CupofOil]

I know it was an ugly loss and to the Flames of all teams but jesus christ, get a grip people.
He took over a franchise that was in shambles and was more than a 1 or 2 year fix, I know some of you don't like hearing it but it is what it is. The fact that they finished 2nd in the division last season was a minor miracle in itself considering the trash Holland inherited.

With that said, he definitely botched the goalie situation but make no mistake, this roster is largely Chia's mess. It'll get better as the prospects start filtering in and Holland gains more flexibility, I'm sure of it. Yeah Yeah, we've heard that before. I really believe it this time.

Oh and the season isn't over yet btw. I never had big expectations this season anyway but I'm certainly not going to put a fork in them already.

 

[Oilhawks]

Not recently, but Glencross comes to mind. Talbot > Smith unless you're planning to brawl. I feel like there were some free agent D they got that the Oilers were in on in the last 5 years but I can't remember who.

Eh, Glencross is ancient history, no relation to either org's current management. Talbot was never going to re-sign here for any amount of money after his last season which was a disaster from every aspect (his play, coach / management / teammate support, fan reactions on social media towards his family etc).

I don't remember any free agent D but maybe there is one. They did outbid Oilers on Neal but we all know how that turned out.

 

[stratedge]

I don't necessarily disagree but they also don't really have any defensive rocks on the back end, and coupled with the staggering number of high danger chances the group is making Koski have to face each game I think he's taking more heat than he deserves. I will agree last night was straight bad though.

I think it's two halves, goaltending and defense combined. But from what I've seen so far this year, the defensive problems are all over their zone and not necessarily the defensemen themselves; everyone is having huge defensive lapses and playing passive, soft D. There's way too much missed coverage from the forwards on this team. But then again, you notice it a lot more when the player isn't bailed out, than when they are.

 

[Oilhawks]

I don't necessarily disagree but they also don't really have any defensive rocks on the back end, and coupled with the staggering number of high danger chances the group is making Koski have to face each game I think he's taking more heat than he deserves. I will agree last night was straight bad though.

Koskinen was awful last night but I'm getting Talbot vibes with him. A negative feedback loop like between the team and Talbot where he'd let in soft goals and the skaters would cheat for offense leading to high danger chances against that would go in leading to the goaltender gripping his stick more and the skaters getting frustrated and cheating more. The carryover to future games can only really be broken by putting another decent goalie in to let the goalie reset. Like Talbot, I imagine Koskinen will end up being a reasonable goaltender on his next team.

This team needs a goalie that stops more high danger chances to cover as the D develops. Markstrom might have been that guy but they can certainly trade for one. Clock is ticking on that if they go that route though.

 

[GOilers88]

I think it's two halves, goaltending and defense combined. But from what I've seen so far this year, the defensive problems are all over their zone and not necessarily the defensemen themselves; everyone is having huge defensive lapses and playing passive, soft D. There's way too much missed coverage from the forwards on this team. But then again, you notice it a lot more when the player isn't bailed out, than when they are.

I'll agree with this. I'll also acknowledge that Koski hasn't stolen us any games. But he has made lots of big saves in games this year to keep the team in it. I really don't think it's his fault the team hasn't come out strong or found ways to win those games without McDrai being the only difference maker. I still think he's a good 1B guy who just needs a manageable workload and someone even half reliable behind him.

He's probably thrilled to see Smith back.


Then again maybe I'm understating the mental impact soft goals can have against a team.

 

[stratedge]

I'll agree with this. I'll also acknowledge that Koski hasn't stolen us any games. But he has made lots of big saves in games this year to keep the team in it. I really don't think it's his fault the team hasn't come out strong or found ways to win those games without McDrai being the only difference maker. I still think he's a good 1B guy who just needs a manageable workload and someone even half reliable behind him.

He's probably thrilled to see Smith back.


Then again maybe I'm understating the mental impact soft goals can have against a team.

It's a very, very thin line between a mediocre NHL goalie and an inadequate one. He's obviously making some great saves at times, sometimes for a period or two in a game, and I think you're seeing that and I see it too. But he's 47th in save percentage right now... if he'd made 10 more saves on the 378 shots, he'd be top 20 in the NHL with the highest workload and I think everyone would be singing his praises in unison. 10 very slight differences in angle or bounce and he's a hero right now, and the Oilers are over .500. Goalie's a tough job, but it pays well.

 

[Metamind]

I dont get the Holland hate, guy was left a tire fire of an organization that he's done pretty good at cleaning up in my opinion. I get the lack of goalie but even Holland saw that too when he tried to get Markstrom with no cap space to play with. I willing to give him until the end of the 2022 season to see what he can come up with.

 

[Smartguy]

I think we should trade everyone and re-enter rebuild #3. It's time boys. No more McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH wearing us down. Dump them for peanuts and lets ride it out!

Rebuild number 4 actually

#1 Gagner, Cogliano, Nilsson
#2 Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Schultz
#3 Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Puljujarvi
#4 Bouchard, Broberg, Holloway, new prospects

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I dont get the Holland hate, guy was left a tire fire of an organization that he's done pretty good at cleaning up in my opinion. I get the lack of goalie but even Holland saw that too when he tried to get Markstrom with no cap space to play with. I willing to give him until the end of the 2022 season to see what he can come up with.

I don't want him fired but he absolutely failed addressing the glaring weakness in net

 

[Senor Catface]

Rebuild number 4 actually

#1 Gagner, Cogliano, Nilsson
#2 Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Schultz
#3 Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Puljujarvi
#4 Bouchard, Broberg, Holloway, new prospects

I mean, considering all those guys in 1 and 2 were on the same team except for Nilsson, it's hard to argue those being 2 separate rebuilds.

Especially when you have a guy that was drafted in 2007 in group 1, and a guy that drafted in 2008 in group 2.

 

[MoontoScott]

Leavins' 9 Things write up discussing the game and goaltending seemed fairly reasonable. I agree that Grosenick was not worth losing Lagesson and can see why they didn't ask Russell to waive so he can be sent down to the taxi squad if they think it would 'look bad'.

That said, the whispers about trading Bear or Bouchard would make this thread blow up if either came true.

Unlike Chia, Holland doesn't panic so I don't think Bouchard is going anywhere.

 

[BudBundy]

This team is objectively worse than last year, and on par with the failures that Peter Chiarelli built. Holland is the one to blame for nearly every factor that has led us to this point, from the awful goaltending to the poor depth on D to our dinosaur of a coach still having a job.

It’s time for Katz to step in before McDavid demands a trade. He’s wasting his career here with each passing game.

This thread is shameful. It’s a knee-jerk reaction to a rough start to the season and bad goaltending. Holland hasn’t made any panic moves, hasn’t signed us to an$4.5M backup. He did all the right things with Puljujarvi and we are reaping those benefits. Picking up Barrie and Kahun were astute moves. Turris was a solid bet, done on the cheap. We have Broberg, Holloway, and next years first because of his patience. He is the best GM we’ve had in a decade and you want him fired because the Flames overpaid Markstrom. Get your head out of the oven and look at the bigger picture.