Fire Ken Holland

[Mez]

Wow, a "fire insert name here" thread on the HF Oilers board.

What an original concept after a loss.

whowouldathunkit?

HFoil would have 2-3 coaches and GM's turn over every year.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

I'm will to give him time. He's developing a lot of our prospects well. He absolutely needs to get a goalie next year though and not getting one is costing us... It may cost us the playoff and even if we make it we will probably lose in the first round anyway. It's so critical to the point that if he doesn't, we definitely need to have this conversation. We haven't had a consistantly good goalie since Garon. It's unacceptable!

 

[MoontoScott]

I'm will to give him time. He's developing a lot of our prospects well. He absolutely needs to get a goalie next year though and not getting one is costing us... It may cost us the playoff and even if we make it we will probably lose in the first round anyway. It's so critical to the point that if he doesn't, we definitely need to have this conversation. We haven't had a consistantly good goalie since Garon. It's unacceptable!

My thoughts too. Quick fixes rarely fix much and trading away 1st round picks or the most exciting prospect in the system won't help anything.

Holland has made a few mistakes but even a saint couldn't fix the ineptitude of 2 decades of poor choices.

If NHL teams traded as stocks on the TSE then the Oilers would have long ago been bought out in a hostile takeover or merged with a more competent organization.

 

[stratedge]

I think it's disingenuous to compare Holland to Chiarelli, because Chia sucked at every aspect of being a GM. Holland's been great at the drafting/developing, because he has patience, and while he signs the wrong players he doesn't sign them to obscene contracts.

But his problem is his professional scouting and roster building, and unless you can do both sides of the GM role, you'll never win a cup. Bringing in Smith as your 2nd goalie, and the leagues worst defensive liability in Turris, are both completely unforgivable maneuvers and will be the Oilers undoing this year. Every fan knew that the day he made those horrible decisions.

It's infuriating watching this passive "I'll worry about him once he gets the puck" defensive style, and if last year's play in series wasn't enough then the start of this season clearly states that this team needs new coaching, pronto. Something about both the [lack of] passion and the attention to detail of the average player on this team, it winds up looking like a pick up game... they need a motivator not just x's and o's to play decent hockey. Obviously, without fans it's even more important.

Anyway, once again, here we are. Change is needed, try something else.

 

[barry halls]

When he sees management making little to no effort to improve the team in the off season can you blame him?

But what about all the awesome reclamation projects/cast-offs Holland signed, surely they’ll all suddenly reach their full potential here!

 

[MoontoScott]

People bitch about the Kassian extension (yeah it sucks) and the Khaira and Chiasson contracts. These are like 2-4 million in dead cap vs Chiarelli's $10+ million (and that's just this season after deadweight cleared from last offseason)

He had ~$7 million to f***ing address the following:

Top 6 winger x 2
3C
2 top 4D
1A goalie

I don't care who the GM is, that's simply not possible.

We're fortunate that the gambles on the following have looked good so far:

1 top 4D - Barrie
1 top 6 winger - Pulju (who would have been gone for peanuts last offseason by Chiarelli)

Kahun has been a decent top 9 guy and 4K is a reasonable bottom pair guy (better than Benning IMO)

Now there's what, around $2.5 million in LTIR that might be used on a goalie.

It's frankly a miracle that this roster is as good as it is.

Bang on. I still don't understand how people think that he could have acquired a guy like Markstrom or how that could have been fit into the salary cap especially in the face of the uncertainty about the future cap.

 

[barry halls]

Look no further than Toronto to see what a good GM looks like. The Leafs had the same results as us last season, and despite being up against the cap they look like a legit contender today (brace yourselves for a Leafs cup this decade, it’s coming). The Oilers took a step back in the same span of time and went from being 2nd in the division to missing the playoffs thanks to passive, ineffective gm’ing.

 

[TheNumber4]

Oilers are much better this year than past years. Record may not reflect it yet. Holland’s pick ups and miraculous schooling of and recovery of Pulju will be a big part of it. Barrie will be a big part of it. So will 4K. So will Bouch, and Holland took the smart slow development with him that looks like it’s about to pay off big. Holland gets high grades from me on his off season.

 

[iCanada]

Oilers are much better this year than past years. Record may not reflect it yet. Holland’s pick ups and miraculous schooling of and recovery of Pulju will be a big part of it. Barrie will be a big pet of it. So will 4K. Holland gets high grades from me on his off season.

Right, but all of that is undone with his atrocious handling of goaltenders in the offseason.

Even just holding Koski/Smith is a failure. So much so that Holland Hedged his bets with Forsberg. Who he promptly lost for nothing so we could run around with 9 defenseman. After this, Smith gets injured, and we get Grosenick through the luck of waivers. But instead of learning from this, he waives Grosenick again?! Same error he made with Forsberg?

Its a fatal error. And he not just made the error, but he tripled down on it by not just giving Forsberg and then Grosenick a spot on the 23 man roster. Not sure why Grosenick went down to the taxi squad instead of say Chiasson who'd already passed through waivers. Worst case you waive him again and you're out of that bad contract.

Then, we're stuck in a game where our goaltender allows 3 goals on 8 shots, 4 of those shots only existing because of our goaltenders own atrocious rebound control... and you can't even pull the guy because your guy on the bench dropped a .850 in the ECHL. Like... Just absolutely unnacceptable. Holland deserves criticism over the way hes handled the goaltenders here. No one expected us to be cup contenders this year, but we ought to be a .550+ team... He's wasting McDrai's prime with this subpar crap.

 

[Soundwave]

Oilers are much better this year than past years. Record may not reflect it yet. Holland’s pick ups and miraculous schooling of and recovery of Pulju will be a big part of it. Barrie will be a big part of it. So will 4K. So will Bouch, and Holland took the smart slow development with him that looks like it’s about to pay off big. Holland gets high grades from me on his off season.

I don't see it. I see the same ol crap. Shoddy goaltending, no D, no urgency, little depth scoring.

This is a team that lives to find ways to lose games.

They haven't played well at all since last March and thats like almost 20 games ago. They cost themselves in the play in round and now are well on their way to passing away this season.

But yah Puljujarvi will score a few goals with McDavid. Guess thats nice.

 

[TheNumber4]

Right, but all of that is undone with his atrocious handling of goaltenders in the offseason.

Even just holding Koski/Smith is a failure. So much so that Holland Hedged his bets with Forsberg. Who he promptly lost for nothing so we could run around with 9 defenseman. After this, Smith gets injured, and we get Grosenick through the luck of waivers. But instead of learning from this, he waives Grosenick again?! Same error he made with Forsberg?

Its a fatal error. And he not just made the error, but he tripled down on it by not just giving Forsberg and then Grosenick a spot on the 23 man roster. Not sure why Grosenick went down to the taxi squad instead of say Chiasson who'd already passed through waivers. Worst case you waive him again and you're out of that bad contract.

Then, we're stuck in a game where our goaltender allows 3 goals on 8 shots, 4 of those shots only existing because of our goaltenders own atrocious rebound control... and you can't even pull the guy because your guy on the bench dropped a .850 in the ECHL. Like... Just absolutely unnacceptable. Holland deserves criticism over the way hes handled the goaltenders here. No one expected us to be cup contenders this year, but we ought to be a .550+ team... He's wasting McDrai's prime with this subpar crap.

I agree that goaltending is a huge achilles heal. Holland tried for Markstrom and got out bid, if he wasn’t already hampered with Koskos contract he would have had more ammunition. If he didn’t want to also sign and give a chance to Barrie (which was and still is a good bet) he would have had more ammo to get it done. But he didn’t get Markstrom and then we were out of the running for some others so Holland fell back onto last years combination which was passable.

This all being said, the season is still early and this team is filled with loads of potential that we are just scratching the surface of. The emergence of Barrie, Bouchard, Pulju will be enough to put this team on another level this year... I fully expect the record to reflect that by the end of the year.

 

[Stoneman89]

Oilers are much better this year than past years. Record may not reflect it yet. Holland’s pick ups and miraculous schooling of and recovery of Pulju will be a big part of it. Barrie will be a big part of it. So will 4K. So will Bouch, and Holland took the smart slow development with him that looks like it’s about to pay off big. Holland gets high grades from me on his off season.

Goaltending is the thing that will eventually kill them. Can't believe that stupid contract was handed out. And some people on here actually defended it at the time.

 

[TheNumber4]

I don't see it. I see the same ol crap. Shoddy goaltending, no D, no urgency, little depth scoring.

This is a team that lives to find ways to lose games.

They haven't played well at all since last March and thats like almost 20 games ago. They cost themselves in the play in round and now are well on their way to passing away this season.

But yah Puljujarvi will score a few goals with McDavid. Guess thats nice.

shoddy goaltending yes. But the D is better at moving the puck and better offensively than any other year in the last 20 years... the fruit of this improvement hasn’t been fully realized yet but it will come. I think the offensive upgrade will more than make up for the loss of Klef and the loss of Benning is an upgrade in itself.

secondary scoring will be a lot better as we realize that our D can put up points.

last season and the play-in round performance is the past and doesn’t include contributions from Barrie, Bouch, or Pulju that we will be seeing in strides this year and it’s only just beginning.

i remain very bullish on this team, and last nights lost only added to it. Team has more talent than ever and McDrai look to be more motivated than ever to make this a winning team.

 

[Soundwave]

shoddy goaltending yes. But the D is better at moving the puck and better offensively than any other year in the last 20 years... the fruit of this improvement hasn’t been fully realized yet but it will come. I think the offensive upgrade will more than make up for the loss of Klef and the loss of Benning is an upgrade in itself.

secondary scoring will be a lot better as we realize that our D can put up points.

last season and the play-in round performance is the past and doesn’t include contributions from Barrie, Bouch, or Pulju that we will be seeing in strides this year and it’s only just beginning.

i remain very bullish on this team, and last nights lost only added to it. Team has more talent than ever and McDrai look to be more motivated than ever to make this a winning team.

I'm sorry but the d zone coverage was Eakins era bad last night.

This team has maybe bothered to defend in like 3 games this year.

We needed Larsson and Jones and Nurse to step up this year and only Nurse has. Barrie replaces Klefbom's offence but he can't defend much which we knew going in.

Secondary scoring is the same ol crap. 3rd/4th lines get completely caved.

 

[Tyrolean]

Peter Chiarelli single handedly is the reason the Oilers are where they are today. that mother****er robbed us at least 1 Stanley cup already.

He set the team back 4-5 years. The length of the Lucic contract more or less.

 

[TheNumber4]

I'm sorry but the d zone coverage was Eakins era bad last night.

This team has maybe bothered to defend in like 3 games this year.

Your right, D coverage and goaltending hasnt been good enough. I still think the team will be good this year. Smith despite being an old fart, if healthy, can make big saves... it’s a gamble but he can still in and stabilize the goaltending a bit... we’ll have to see how he looks when he’s in. The D has been bad... but we were still working out personnel issues... for example Jones shouldn’t be in and the experiment to get him games should just stop. Bouchard should be a regular. 4K should be a regular. Barrie is only recently starting to show up as advertised as the puck moving and dynamic offensive D-man he can be.

 

[Soundwave]

He set the team back 4-5 years. The length of the Lucic contract more or less.

Said it then but people kept saying let it go. Now people finally understand his decisions would haunt the team well into the here and now for a long time.

 

[iCanada]

I agree that goaltending is a huge achilles heal. Holland tried for Markstrom and got out bid, if he wasn’t already hampered with Koskos contract he would have had more ammunition. If he didn’t want to also sign and give a chance to Barrie (which was and still is a good bet) he would have had more ammo to get it done. But he didn’t get Markstrom and then we were out of the running for some others so Holland fell back onto last years combination which was passable.

This all being said, the season is still early and this team is filled with loads of potential that we are just scratching the surface of. The emergence of Barrie, Bouchard, Pulju will be enough to put this team on another level this year... I fully expect the record to reflect that by the end of the year.

And you know... as far as i am concerned it isn't really the end of the world to be outbid on Markstrom. Being outbit on Markstrom, then not having a feasible backup play and the current situation is what is unnacceptable.

He went with a stop-gap solution, banking on the fact that next year we have a ton of cap space. OK. Fine. But he then bungled his stop-gap and we're just leaking shit all over everything.

 

[Stoneman89]

Said it then but people kept saying let it go. Now people finally understand his decisions would haunt the team well into the here and now for a long time.

Truly amazing the breadth and scope of damage an individual can inflict on an organization in such a short time frame.

 

[Mr Positive]

And you know... as far as i am concerned it isn't really the end of the world to be outbid on Markstrom. Being outbit on Markstrom, then not having a feasible backup play and the current situation is what is unnacceptable.

He went with a stop-gap solution, banking on the fact that next year we have a ton of cap space. OK. Fine. But he then bungled his stop-gap and we're just leaking shit all over everything.

Atm it is looking like Markstrom was our one way to cheat ourselves into a real starter, after over a decade of our org not giving a crap about the position and not investing anything into it.

There were many that doubted him, and it wasn't that they knew less, but they were wrong. Markstrom has continued his good play this year. The Flames are a mess but he's holding them together.

And really, all it would have taken to have Markstrom is just to not sign Barrie. Barrie does add something to our team, but he's also brought a lot of negatives. We could have gotten by with Jones and Bouchard playing.

And sure, there is some hindsight here, but what is not hindsight is the reality of our goaltending situation. Having Markstrom + Koskinen would have been expensive, but goaltending would have been a strength. And maybe there would have been a taker for Koskinen.

 

[TheNumber4]

And you know... as far as i am concerned it isn't really the end of the world to be outbid on Markstrom. Being outbit on Markstrom, then not having a feasible backup play and the current situation is what is unnacceptable.

He went with a stop-gap solution, banking on the fact that next year we have a ton of cap space. OK. Fine. But he then bungled his stop-gap and we're just leaking shit all over everything.

I’m sure the goaltending situation could been handled differently... it was a tough call how the waiver wire and taxi squad thing would turn out this year, it’s tough to add a starter when you already have a “starter” signed long term. It’s tough to address goaltending whilst also trying to also afford much needed upgrades/replacements on the D and on the wings. I’d say Holland did okay with the cards he was dealt in dealing with the goaltending... and did many other things that will help this team this year in other areas. Nothing approaching “Fire Holland” discussions.

 

[McTonyBrar]

This is embarrassing. Not Holland but you guys who revive this thread after one loss in the last 4 AHAHAHAHA

 

[iCanada]

I’m sure the goaltending situation could been handled differently... it was a tough call how the waiver wire and taxi squad thing would turn out this year, it’s tough to add a starter when you already have a “starter” signed long term. It’s tough to address goaltending whilst also trying to also afford much needed upgrades/replacements on the D and on the wings. I’d say Holland did okay with the cards he was dealt in dealing with the goaltending... and did many other things that will help this team this year in other areas. Nothing approaching “Fire Holland” discussions.

How was it a tough call? The entire media and board were critical as it was announced. Its not like this is some hindsight 20/20 shit.

Not to mention... We just saw the wrong call made and its consequences, and we did the same f***ing thing again.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

This is embarrassing. Not Holland but you guys who revive this thread after one loss in the last 4 AHAHAHAHA

not as embarrassing as a franchise with 2 MVPs on it that can't even be average

 

[Zerotonine]

Pretty sure Tippet is a bigger problem then Holland. Holland did some good stuff this off season with limited resources

Tippet just seems to be lost in today's game