Fire Deboer

[Kegsey]

A team that has Vlasic, Burns, and Karlsson in their top 4 just got outscored 20-6 in 4 games.

Not sure how you can ignore this or the rest of the season as a whole. At what point does Hasso step in?

 

[rangerssharks414]

Ok, here are some new head coach ideas. Hitchcock, Blysma, Caryle... they have won cups and i don't think are abusive. Bogner could be interm coach as he has NHL coaching experience.

Ewwww...

If DeBoer is fired, I'd just promote someone from within to interim coach and look for a new mind in the offseason. I don't want another retread as the head coach.

 

[Patty Ice]

If Pete is still coach by weeks end, I will consider this a lost season. Without a 1st, it makes it that much bitter.

There are 3 guys that clearly need to be let go and I really hope Wilson does what he needs to do to change this season around.

 

[WSS11]

Not sure how you can ignore this or the rest of the season as a whole. At what point does Hasso step in?

he won’t unless attendance plummets.

 

[Mafoofoo]

he won’t unless attendance plummets.

so what you’re saying is that we as fans must destroy the teams attendance to save it

 

[WSS11]

so what you’re saying is that we as fans must destroy the teams attendance to save it

What I’m saying is that though I believe Hasso cares about winning, he’s not a Jerry Jones type and leaves DW completely in charge of hockey ops and personnel decisions. I believe the only way he steps in after signing EK65 to that big contract is if the bottom line takes a hit.

 

[OffSydes]

he won’t unless attendance plummets.

They lost a bunch of casual fans to the Warriors and with them being garbage now is the time to get them back. They can't afford to be this bad.

 

[stator]

A team that has Vlasic, Burns, and Karlsson in their top 4 just got outscored 20-6 in 4 games.

Vlasic hasn't been the same since his stalwart days pairing with Braun. In fact, neither has been the same but it cannot last forever either.

Burns and Karlsson are easy to shutdown when there are not good multiple lines. PDB only has four Sharks forwards to create strong lines from. That's not enough.

Karlsson needs to be paired with a defense-oriented partner than can move the puck out or pass it out. Otherwise, teams are shutting down Karlsson's best asset by not taking his partner as a serious threat.

The other success comes from pressuring the points more so than usual. They are getting advantageous turnovers up high.

PDB is a mediocre coach to begin with, but I'm surprised most here don't see an additional problem in DW. He's put together an out of balance roster with no depth to be an offensive threat across the board. DW has been leverage the future for the present for some years now, and the bill is coming due. Both need to go.

 

[OrrNumber4]

DeBoer has some fault, but right now, this recent stretch, it comes down to the roster. Defensively, they have not been porous because of bad structure or strategy, but because of poor execution. Bad goaltending, Simek-Burns being tire-fire, and the lack of forward depth being exposed. Hertl was the Sharks's top forward last season and he's at, what, 80% right now? Thornton has severely regressed, Meier has regressed, and no player outside of Goodrow has really taken the "next step". Specifically, DW made a bet that he could replace Pavelski/Donskoi/Nyquist internally and he lost.

 

[NWSharkie]

DeBoer has some fault, but right now, this recent stretch, it comes down to the roster. Defensively, they have not been porous because of bad structure or strategy, but because of poor execution. Bad goaltending, Simek-Burns being tire-fire, and the lack of forward depth being exposed. Hertl was the Sharks's top forward last season and he's at, what, 80% right now? Thornton has severely regressed, Meier has regressed, and no player outside of Goodrow has really taken the "next step". Specifically, DW made a bet that he could replace Pavelski/Donskoi/Nyquist internally and he lost.

I don't buy it. This roster is good enough to win, and they've shown flashes of it. Yes, Hertl's hurt and playing below capacity. Yes, Thornton is older and slower than he was last year. But I refuse to believe that the other 10-12 forwards on the roster have all regressed at once.

Thornton has picked it up recently, and shown that he can still drive possession. Goodrow, Gambrell and Gregor have all proven themselves to be reasonable bottom-6 forwards. The top-6 is missing an impact winger, sure, but the forward group isn't so shallow as to be outscored 20-6 in four games. Watching them play, I see a team that isn't supporting the puck on the breakout, isn't possessing the puck in the offensive zone, and isn't tracking and sorting on defense. Especially on the breakout, it looks like guys are getting the puck, looking around for their teammates, and making reaction passes that often end up behind the target/in his skates. That's unstructured, poorly-coached play. Nobody knows where their teammates are going to be at any given moment, and it leads to two guys covering the same man on defense, blind passes to empty ice, and breakaways the other way.

Jones could be better, for sure. Burns looks lost so far. But to my eye, it seems like most of the individual shortcomings/failure to execute are a sum-of-their-parts thing that comes back to coaching and expectations.

 

[Used As A Shield]

The team is also awfully bad at breaking coverage and getting open to receive clean passes.

 

[Lebanezer]

I don't buy it. This roster is good enough to win, and they've shown flashes of it. Yes, Hertl's hurt and playing below capacity. Yes, Thornton is older and slower than he was last year. But I refuse to believe that the other 10-12 forwards on the roster have all regressed at once.

Thornton has picked it up recently, and shown that he can still drive possession. Goodrow, Gambrell and Gregor have all proven themselves to be reasonable bottom-6 forwards. The top-6 is missing an impact winger, sure, but the forward group isn't so shallow as to be outscored 20-6 in four games. Watching them play, I see a team that isn't supporting the puck on the breakout, isn't possessing the puck in the offensive zone, and isn't tracking and sorting on defense. Especially on the breakout, it looks like guys are getting the puck, looking around for their teammates, and making reaction passes that often end up behind the target/in his skates. That's unstructured, poorly-coached play. Nobody knows where their teammates are going to be at any given moment, and it leads to two guys covering the same man on defense, blind passes to empty ice, and breakaways the other way.

Jones could be better, for sure. Burns looks lost so far. But to my eye, it seems like most of the individual shortcomings/failure to execute are a sum-of-their-parts thing that comes back to coaching and expectations.

I also don't buy it because a coach should be able to alter their system to maximize the potential of their roster. Deboer doesn't do that, whereas Barry Trotz has found a way to take a roster with less talent and have them play above their ability. I think Deboer is a below average talent evaluator.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I don't buy it. This roster is good enough to win, and they've shown flashes of it. Yes, Hertl's hurt and playing below capacity. Yes, Thornton is older and slower than he was last year. But I refuse to believe that the other 10-12 forwards on the roster have all regressed at once.

Thornton has picked it up recently, and shown that he can still drive possession. Goodrow, Gambrell and Gregor have all proven themselves to be reasonable bottom-6 forwards. The top-6 is missing an impact winger, sure, but the forward group isn't so shallow as to be outscored 20-6 in four games. Watching them play, I see a team that isn't supporting the puck on the breakout, isn't possessing the puck in the offensive zone, and isn't tracking and sorting on defense. Especially on the breakout, it looks like guys are getting the puck, looking around for their teammates, and making reaction passes that often end up behind the target/in his skates. That's unstructured, poorly-coached play. Nobody knows where their teammates are going to be at any given moment, and it leads to two guys covering the same man on defense, blind passes to empty ice, and breakaways the other way.

Jones could be better, for sure. Burns looks lost so far. But to my eye, it seems like most of the individual shortcomings/failure to execute are a sum-of-their-parts thing that comes back to coaching and expectations.

I’m not saying that the other forwards have all regressed. They just weren’t that good to begin with (and the Sharks are facing better teams in this stretch), and without their top players driving the way, the Sharks don’t have a lot of weapons.

The way I see it, if Jones is “average”, the Sharks need Hertl, Burns, and Karlsson doing their thing to be considered a contender. If they have two going, they can be competitive. With only one going, they will lose more often than not. And with none going, they will never win. And when Jones is poor, everything goes out the window.

I also don't buy it because a coach should be able to alter their system to maximize the potential of their roster. Deboer doesn't do that, whereas Barry Trotz has found a way to take a roster with less talent and have them play above their ability. I think Deboer is a below average talent evaluator.

It is one thing to make a bad team on paper and good team on the ice, and another to make a good team on paper a great team on the ice.

Regarding DeBoer’s ability to evaluate talent...what player did DeBoer really do disservice to? What happened to all those talented players that DeBoer passed over? Except for maybe Adam Larson, I can’t think of a time DeBoer really misjudged talent. Look at how board-favorite Joakim Ryan is doing...and look at how a player we hated in DeMelo is getting a ton of love in Ottawa for his ability to drive play (I’m shocked, to be honest).

 

[Lebanezer]

I’m not saying that the other forwards have all regressed. They just weren’t that good to begin with (and the Sharks are facing better teams in this stretch), and without their top players driving the way, the Sharks don’t have a lot of weapons.

The way I see it, if Jones is “average”, the Sharks need Hertl, Burns, and Karlsson doing their thing to be considered a contender. If they have two going, they can be competitive. With only one going, they will lose more often than not. And with none going, they will never win. And when Jones is poor, everything goes out the window.



It is one thing to make a bad team on paper and good team on the ice, and another to make a good team on paper a great team on the ice.

Regarding DeBoer’s ability to evaluate talent...what player did DeBoer really do disservice to? What happened to all those talented players that DeBoer passed over? Except for maybe Adam Larson, I can’t think of a time DeBoer really misjudged talent. Look at how board-favorite Joakim Ryan is doing...and look at how a player we hated in DeMelo is getting a ton of love in Ottawa for his ability to drive play (I’m shocked, to be honest).

Deboer had a clear say in the additions of Zubrus, Spaling and Boedker (you could argue Prout or Polak, but I don't know of any proof that Deboer lobbied for them) and his odd love for Micheal Haley. He also thinks much higher of Melker Karlsson than almost anyone else, and I wouldn't be surprised if Melker can't find a steady job in the NHL after he leaves the Sharks. He didn't think highly enough of Nieto or Carpenter to prevent them from being waived. Look at Donskoi, and then read Donskoi's comments after he signed with Colorado. Deboer's input into personnel decisions has been poor and I think it is reflective of his inability to evaluate players well.

 

[Barrie22]

How can any one atill give deboer the benefit of the doubt when it comes to lineup choices? He lost all credibility when he played haley over donskoi in the playoffs.

 

[Levie]

I'm thinking if he gets fired it will be after the preds game or not at all...

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I'm thinking if he gets fired it will be after the preds game or not at all...

I don’t see him getting fired. We are within a few points for the 3rd division spot with 50 games to play.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

This feels like 14-15 again, except no Timo on the horizon without a trade.

Where's Deboer from? Can he quit and go there to get fired like Todd McQuitter did??

 

[OrrNumber4]

Deboer had a clear say in the additions of Zubrus, Spaling and Boedker (you could argue Prout or Polak, but I don't know of any proof that Deboer lobbied for them) and his odd love for Micheal Haley.

I actually liked Spaling, Polak, and Zubrus. Boedker wasn’t a terrible player...a poor fit but decently productive.

The Prout signing contributes to my point. I was against the signing, because I thought Prout would be taking a spot away from a more deserving player. But, it is clear to me that those players aren’t ready. People, including myself, overrated Middleton/DeSimone/etc. Tim Heed had a poor camp and start to the year. When Ferraro earned his spot, DeBoer showed little hesitation in playing him over Prout.

He also thinks much higher of Melker Karlsson than almost anyone else, and I wouldn't be surprised if Melker can't find a steady job in the NHL after he leaves the Sharks.

This season has somewhat softened my stance on Karlsson (and Barclay Goodrow, for that matter). Granted, his contract vitiates his value. Contract aside, however, he absolutely deserves to be in the lineup. He’s better than Radil, Gambrell, and Suomela. Fans constantly harangued DeBoer to give the young players a shot, pointing to Karlsson getting an undeserved spot. Yet, when poor depth forced DeBoer to give those young players a chance, it became clear that they didn’t deserve it. Gambrell, Bergmann, Yurtaikin, Radil...they are not (and maybe never will be) ready.

He didn't think highly enough of Nieto or Carpenter to prevent them from being waived.

Both played their way off of San Jose, and DW waived them so they could get opportunity elsewhere. Carpenter had a strong year in Vegas, but he’s back to being a fringe NHLer. Nieto is a solid fourth-liner; he would have been useful this year but clearly had no room in the lineup the last two years. Perhaps I am being tendentious, but I don’t think his departure from San Jose was a result of DeBoer misjudging his talent.

Look at Donskoi, and then read Donskoi's comments after he signed with Colorado. Deboer's input into personnel decisions has been poor and I think it is reflective of his inability to evaluate players well.

Again, this isn’t by dint of poor talent evaluation, this was a combination of Donskoi not being a good fit, not playing well, and his contract demands. The Avalanche were fortunate to take the Sharks to seven games last season; they clearly struggled against the Sharks heavy, physical style of play. Donskoi doesn’t help them in that regard.

 

[Lebanezer]

I actually liked Spaling, Polak, and Zubrus. Boedker wasn’t a terrible player...a poor fit but decently productive.

The Prout signing contributes to my point. I was against the signing, because I thought Prout would be taking a spot away from a more deserving player. But, it is clear to me that those players aren’t ready. People, including myself, overrated Middleton/DeSimone/etc. Tim Heed had a poor camp and start to the year. When Ferraro earned his spot, DeBoer showed little hesitation in playing him over Prout.



This season has somewhat softened my stance on Karlsson (and Barclay Goodrow, for that matter). Granted, his contract vitiates his value. Contract aside, however, he absolutely deserves to be in the lineup. He’s better than Radil, Gambrell, and Suomela. Fans constantly harangued DeBoer to give the young players a shot, pointing to Karlsson getting an undeserved spot. Yet, when poor depth forced DeBoer to give those young players a chance, it became clear that they didn’t deserve it. Gambrell, Bergmann, Yurtaikin, Radil...they are not (and maybe never will be) ready.



Both played their way off of San Jose, and DW waived them so they could get opportunity elsewhere. Carpenter had a strong year in Vegas, but he’s back to being a fringe NHLer. Nieto is a solid fourth-liner; he would have been useful this year but clearly had no room in the lineup the last two years. Perhaps I am being tendentious, but I don’t think his departure from San Jose was a result of DeBoer misjudging his talent.



Again, this isn’t by dint of poor talent evaluation, this was a combination of Donskoi not being a good fit, not playing well, and his contract demands. The Avalanche were fortunate to take the Sharks to seven games last season; they clearly struggled against the Sharks heavy, physical style of play. Donskoi doesn’t help them in that regard.

1. This issue with Zubrus, Spaling and Boedker was about whether or not their play, along with the salary allocated to Boedker in particular was worth it. In all 3 cases, it was not. Spaling and Zubrus were not better than the players they replaced. Boedker was not worth 4 million dollars, nor was he a necessary addition. The team is very fortunate that Doug was able to get rid of him.

2. It's hard to know if Prout would have played over Ferraro since Prout got hurt immediately, but more importantly, Simek was injured to start the season and Ferraro is a LHD. Ferraro earned what he got though, and that's good on him. Middleton I don't see an NHL future, and DeSimone isn't close either. If they were Prout wouldn't have been signed and Heed wouldn't have been re-signed.

3. Melker is the poster boy for what Deboer values. Deboer has a soft spot for him because he gives max effort, sacrifices his body, kills penalties, and sells out for the team. It's a not a surprise that he is always in a the lineup. It is a surprise when he is moved up the lineup. Melker plays the same way no matter where he is in the lineup, but he doesn't have the same talent level as some of the other guys. While he is a good 4th liner, his skill set does not suit any top 9 roles.

4. With Nieto and Carpenter you have to wonder why they ended up playing their way off of the Sharks but still managed to find consistent NHL work afterwards. Carpenter less so than Nieto at this point as you said. Is that issue more damning of the player or the coach? How bad did Nieto look with the Sharks for him to have to be waived instead of traded? Guys who are waived are usually fringe NHLers or AAAA players. I think that Deboer has a way that he expects players to play, and if you don't fit his mold, then you suffer. As opposed to accentuating the player's strengths, he's punishing their weaknesses because they don't fit his mold.

5. Donskoi clearly has talent, way more talent that half the Sharks roster last year and even more this year. The fact that he couldn't get into the lineup over any number of guys, whether he was struggling or not, is on the coach. Deboer was quick to demote, and then scratch Donskoi after his initial success with Hertl and Kane. Even when he was struggling, if a coach can't see the importance of playing his most talented players that his decision. I don't know anything about Donskoi's contract demands, but I remember him stating he wanted to come back. Donskoi scored in game 7 against Colorado, and had 2 points in the 3 games in played in that series, totally changing the 4th line with his presence.

 

[Pistol Pete]

 

[Alwalys]

I don't for a moment believe ferarro would have played as much as he has if prout wasn't injured

 

[Alwalys]

and i bet prout gets back into the lineup over him in the future

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

and i bet prout gets back into the lineup over him in the future

Maybe. But I think it would be over Heed if that happens. Or to move Dillon once Simek is healthy and back.

Vlasic-Karlsson
?-Burns
Ferraro-?

Dillon, Simek, Prout, Heed could fill in the 2 spots. I don't think anyone on the Cuda is really ready to step up so they can trade Dillon if they trust going into the playoffs (if that even happens) with 7D.

 

[Internazionale]

Just cancelled my nhl.tv account. I have watched this team through and through since I was a kid, but my passion for the boys this year is at an all time low. The incompetence of PDB and coaches is inexcusable.