Fire Deboer

[Lebanezer]

Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if the PP is actually bad or if it's just something every fanbase complains about it. When you think about it statistically, 2/8 on a PP is a great power play but you still failed 6 times. You could be ****ty 6 times
and strike gold twice and you technically have one of the best PPs in the league. I do think Spott sucks but it's kinda one of those things where how it looks and how the numbers shake out don't line up.

The power play had big personnel issues, the 1st unit put all puck retrieval on the shoulders of Hertl. Couture, Pavs, Burns/Karlsson and Labanc could not be relied on to retrieve the puck either because of their position on the power play or because they were simply too slow. The second unit put it on Meier or Kane. Kane isn’t good at it, Meier is better, Thornton was too slow, Nyquist was like Labanc in that he just wasn’t often involved. So when their entries with attempted passes failed they couldn’t get the puck back. That’s all systematic. They needed other entries or to try different units. Once they got into the zone, they didn’t move at all this year. Which is emblematic of their 5 on 5 system, the players stagnate in their positions. The Sharks only ran like 3 different plays while on the power play and most of them were just attempted deflections. There was no creativity at all.

 

[Groo]

Why? Has DW not iced the best team every season? I think he has. Has PDB gotten the most out of his team every season? No ****ing way.

A change in culture is needed. That starts at the top

 

[Kegsey]

A change in culture is needed. That starts at the top

I agree the culture on the ice needs to change. Don't blame the architect because the coach is stubborn. Make Couture captain, fire the coaching staff and see what happens.

 

[Groo]

I agree the culture on the ice needs to change. Don't blame the architect because the coach is stubborn. Make Couture captain, fire the coaching staff and see what happens.

The culture pre-dates Deboer

 

[Fnysnipe77]

That's fire that's pretty much a great way to sum up how the shark's playeD. Parts of 4 five and All of six.

 

[hohosaregood]

Its not the conversion rate that bothered me. It was more to do with the fact that we struggled to enter the zone and even get SOG's.

The power play had big personnel issues, the 1st unit put all puck retrieval on the shoulders of Hertl. Couture, Pavs, Burns/Karlsson and Labanc could not be relied on to retrieve the puck either because of their position on the power play or because they were simply too slow. The second unit put it on Meier or Kane. Kane isn’t good at it, Meier is better, Thornton was too slow, Nyquist was like Labanc in that he just wasn’t often involved. So when their entries with attempted passes failed they couldn’t get the puck back. That’s all systematic. They needed other entries or to try different units. Once they got into the zone, they didn’t move at all this year. Which is emblematic of their 5 on 5 system, the players stagnate in their positions. The Sharks only ran like 3 different plays while on the power play and most of them were just attempted deflections. There was no creativity at all.

I agree with you guys. I guess my point is that statistically, we had a good PP but strategically, it was pretty crappy for all the reasons Leb alludes to. Just one of those things where the stats are misleading.

 

[hohosaregood]

Alright new plan, Fire Spott. Hire Joe Thornton as a player/coach. He'll make the PP great again. If Jumbo's done as a player, he can win the cup as an org member.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if the PP is actually bad or if it's just something every fanbase complains about it. When you think about it statistically, 2/8 on a PP is a great power play but you still failed 6 times. You could be ****ty 6 times
and strike gold twice and you technically have one of the best PPs in the league. I do think Spott sucks but it's kinda one of those things where how it looks and how the numbers shake out don't line up.

Don’t get me wrong the production matters, but the most important part is PP system, attack points, and of course the zone entry.

It’s not an expectation of a ridiculous percentage but rather are they getting good chances and are they using the man advantage to their advantage.

Think about how many times a Sharks player is skating up the ice only to drop pass to another skater who is then trying to weave through a 4 man picket fence on the blue line.

We see it all the time and it’s aggravating because quite a few times the puck gets stopped at the blue line and knocked back out and on a few occasions it has lead to breakaways and odd man rushes going the other way.

Look at other team’s zone entry on their PP, the good PP teams try to get in before the “wall” sets-up.

Also look how the best PP’s are moving the puck quickly not goalie to adjust.

We see far too much stagnant PP as opposed to crisp movement and rarely do we see cross ice pass to the opposing dot for a one-timer.

Of course there’s much more to it but the basic problem comes down to letting the defense set-up and then not moving enough on the PP to force the defender to make a difficult choice. The idea is to try to create 2-1 or temporary open nets.

When you don’t move the D can sit in a box and just shift around. The goal is to make the PK shape less of a box/rhombus/parallelogram and more of an amorphous mess and using movement to exploit the lack of structure.

 

[Painful Quandary]

Alright new plan, Fire Spott. Hire Joe Thornton as a player/coach. He'll make the PP great again. If Jumbo's done as a player, he can win the cup as an org member.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Why? Has DW not iced the best team every season? I think he has. Has PDB gotten the most out of his team every season? No ****ing way.

It’s more of a question of the right team. I think Doug Wilson is a very good GM I’m terms of doing a lot with late round picks and trade acquisitions, where he has not been so good is the bottom 6 some questionable contracts and coaching choices.

 

[Bleedred]

I probably should have clarified. I agree going for a new younger coach is a good idea. What I was trying to get at was that I think keeping PDB is the best option that the Sharks might do.

I would honestly get rid of all assistant coaches. I don’t really know how Zettler or Barr are doing but I get rid of both.

Barr is pretty good.

Zettler was a Doug Wilson pity hiring because no one else would have him working for them. At least not in the NHL. That's why we had this retread hire here.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

It’s more of a question of the right team. I think Doug Wilson is a very good GM I’m terms of doing a lot with late round picks and trade acquisitions, where he has not been so good is the bottom 6 some questionable contracts and coaching choices.

I think the bottom-6 spots need to come from withing the organization and they should focus more on the skill players getting a chance there than going with the old school approach of energy/checking/grit lines.

 

[hohosaregood]

I wonder what the story on Dan Darrow is. All I know is that he's the video coach and he's made some ballsy challenges. I wonder how much he does outside of that. Either way, they've talked him up a bit

 

[Dicdonya]

Why? Has DW not iced the best team every season? I think he has. Has PDB gotten the most out of his team every season? No ****ing way.

How do you know? Or any of us for that matter.

All we do know is, DW has yet to build a cup winning team. We can all debate whether we have had teams that were capable of winning a cup sure, but none of them have and so how do you, or I, or anyone know whether the GM could have done more, or made better decisions.

DW has absolutely built good, playoffs teams, some of which I personally would agree could have won a cup, but they never do. Sometimes it feels like those teams let themselves down, others feel like coaching, and obviously injuries have played major factors too, even though that last one is shared by all teams.

So at this point we’ve tried different coaches, different systems, different players, heck we’ve even had ownership changes all while DW has stayed the constant on this painfully promising but cupless team.

At this point it’s clear some people don’t care and just want DW to keep churning out playoff ready teams forever, and honestly if that’s what pleases some people that’s fine I’m done trying to argue about it with those people, we can disagree and the world will still turn. For some others we just want to move in a new direction, and we’ve seen changes to everything else but the GM these last 16 years, so I don’t feel it’s crazy to think that maybe a new set of eyes and plans coming from the top, might not be a terrible idea and might even be the last little nudge that takes us from contender to winner.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Vlasic, and Karlsson individually playing better does not mean Deboer caused it. Especially when these two things occurred at very different times. I might agree Deboer caused it if there was some sudden change in their play around the same time, coinciding with some noticeable change in the defensive coverage or scheme.

Two superstar players playing better randomly, at different times though? Nah not gunna give Deboer credit for that when there was no other noticeable change on the team.

Your last sentence is exactly my problem, we had a stacked D, and we played ****ty, dangerous defense, to get offense from the blue line that only has two players really capable of creating offense, both of whom don’t need that kind of system to create offense in the first place because they are offensive juggernauts.

So Deboer decided to play a hyper aggressive system that does not compliment most of our defenders, and many of our forwards, and none of our goalies, to accentuate the offense of two players who don’t even need the help generating points.

In fact, the only reason we even got to the WCF was because he abandoned that **** system in favor of a more defensive one for game 5-7 against Vegas, which magically (not really since I’d been saying it all freaking year) helped Jones remove his head from his butt and start making saves, while still being able to score goals because we have tons of offensive talent.

So I give Deboer credit for making that change, but that’s about it.

That's all fine and good. I said he had warts. I've complained repeatedly about the system. He's still the best coach this team has ever had and until you can show me someone that you can guarantee will do better, I'm sticking with him. And I don't think for a second that DW entertains replacing him after this run. And DW certainly isn't getting fired after assembling this team.

 

[neverretirejoe]

I'm down. Not a big fan of the guy.

 

[tealzamboni]

what would this team look like with sutter as head coach?

I assume he'd bring:
1. More emphasis on pride. Protect the goalie, the star players, your professional pride. Don't be bullied. Impose your will.
2. More emphasis on two-way hockey. Maybe Hertl, Kane, Meier, and Couture get a lot of attention from him.
3. Presumably better game management. He's been on the right side of a reverse sweep/choke and the SCF. So, hopefully can see a dead horse for what it is.

But:
1. I doubt he's available. Seems happy with post-hockey life. It'd be going 0 to 100 in stress level. (Assuming the Sharks expect him to get them over the hump and it's the Joes' last last shot.)
2. Probably needs a strong tactician at his side, especially with the different pieces the Sharks have.
3. Not sure if his presence helps or hurts the return of EK65 and the Joes. PDB seems very accommodating to his favorite players, so long as they meet his minimum requirements. Not sure if Sutter will demand Sutter brother hockey from everyone.

 

[RickyHP]

I assume he'd bring:
1. More emphasis on pride. Protect the goalie, the star players, your professional pride. Don't be bullied. Impose your will.
2. More emphasis on two-way hockey. Maybe Hertl, Kane, Meier, and Couture get a lot of attention from him.
3. Presumably better game management. He's been on the right side of a reverse sweep/choke and the SCF. So, hopefully can see a dead horse for what it is.

But:
1. I doubt he's available. Seems happy with post-hockey life. It'd be going 0 to 100 in stress level. (Assuming the Sharks expect him to get them over the hump and it's the Joes' last last shot.)
2. Probably needs a strong tactician at his side, especially with the different pieces the Sharks have.
3. Not sure if his presence helps or hurts the return of EK65 and the Joes. PDB seems very accommodating to his favorite players, so long as they meet his minimum requirements. Not sure if Sutter will demand Sutter brother hockey from everyone.

interesting take, thank you. I have to agree. I doubt he's even available, but what a trip that would be. Like the good ol' days of sharks hockey

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Sutter ain't coming out of retirement. Pretty sure one of his last interviews he said he was done. He ain't hitchcock. He says he's done, I believe him. Point remains. Sharks aren't firing a coach that took them to the final 4 and a cup final in 2 of his 4 years. Also made the 2nd round last year while missing his #1 or #2 center (Jumbo). No team would be that dumb. I will hedge this by saying that if a new coach is a contingency of resigning EK65 then PDB is gone but I seriously doubt that would be the case. The players genuinely seem to like PDB.

 

[Kegsey]

I think a big issue is that the players seem to love Pete. Look how long it took DW to fire Tmac after he had already lost the room.

 

[91Fedorov91]

Doug Wilson says Pete will be our head coach next season.

 

[Used As A Shield]

Doug Wilson says Pete will be our head coach next season.

At least get new assistants......................

 

[stator]

I agree the culture on the ice needs to change. Don't blame the architect because the coach is stubborn. Make Couture captain, fire the coaching staff and see what happens.

Pretty close to my thoughts. The only way I can see firing DW at this point is if top coaches don't want to come here because DW does not give them enough latitude.

I'm sure TMac is not giving any due to DW since he's exit.

 

[tealzamboni]

At least get new assistants......................

I'd like to see one assistant with the power of foresight, so they'll have good plan Bs when plan A is shut down.
Also, another assistant with the power of anti-freeze, so no one on the bench has a brain freeze when things go wrong.
Other than that, I wish PDB well in his offseason planning and hopefully he learned some lessons with this past run.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Jones is making 5.75 Million. It would look really bad benching the starter at that amount of money.

You say that now, but at the time, DeBoer was excoriated for starting Jones.