Fire Chia Thread V: Manning and Petrovic and Spooner Oh ****!

[bone]

One year deal for Chiasson to prove he's still got it. These types of finds don't come along every year. We cannot realistically expect Chiarelli to find a league min. player to contribute (even in a bottom 6 role) every year. For every Chiasson that Chiarelli finds in the dumpster, there's a Wideman, Spooner, Manning, etc.

With the strength a salaries of our wonderkids, we do need whoever is the GM to find these pretty much yearly to balance the cap space. Do I have confidence that Chiarelli could do it again. Hell no. But he guessed correctly on this one. Now let's just hope it doesn't turn into ta multi-year multi-million contract.

 

[space321]

With the strength a salaries of our wonderkids, we do need whoever is the GM to find these pretty much yearly to balance the cap space. Do I have confidence that Chiarelli could do it again. Hell no. But he guessed correctly on this one. Now let's just hope it doesn't turn into ta multi-year multi-million contract.

Our wonderkids' salaries are fine. The problem you're looking for is Lucic, Spooner, Manning, Kassian, etc.

 

[MaxR11]

 

[bone]

But this is the kind of stuff good GMs do as a matter of routine. This is like giving Chia credit for successfully finding his way to the office.

I agree this is the job of a decent GM, but it's more than finding his way to the office. It's a quality move that paid off. I have no issue crediting him with a good move even if it should be a common item. Unfortunately, it has been his only good move since summer 2017 and arguably even before that.

 

[bone]

Our wonderkids' salaries are fine. The problem you're looking for is Lucic, Spooner, Manning, Kassian, etc.

That's true. The point still remains though you need a GM to find a contributor for close to league minimum every year in the salary cap era. He did in this case, so that was a win for him. Hopefully he doesn't get a chance to do it again though because it's his only win.

 

[space321]

That's true. The point still remains though you need a GM to find a contributor for close to league minimum every year in the salary cap era. He did in this case, so that was a win for him. Hopefully he doesn't get a chance to do it again though because it's his only win.

It's a small win. It would be much more impactful if he did it while this team had some hope of competing for a Cup, as those are the years where you really need to find some production out of guys you don't expect.

 

[BudBundy]

Since Koskinen has crashed down to earth, Chiasson is Chiarelli's only good acquisition in the past 2 years.

And we were a sore knee away from Upshall being here and Chiasson being in the KHL.

 

[frag2]

Nothing to do with what we are talking about. Thanks for the tid bit though. Let me be clear I am not defending lucic or chia. I’m just saying he deserves some credit for Chiasson.

I thought Gulutzan was the one who suggested Chia give Chiasson a PTO. Knowing Chia, he would've either stood pat or signed some slow ass former Bruin player out there to some absurd contract.

 

[LaGu]

Not sure what you're saying with this because every season here it becomes more apparen that Larsson is just a Jason Smith with less leadership skills. Anything that was forecast for him, that he would start to be a dominating D, or grow his offensive and transition game has not occurred. This is a player that looks ordinary as befits a top pairing in hockey. Really a lot of nights he looks just like a 3-4. Not somebody I'm tying the train to for sure.

What I am saying with this is that IMO people should lay off trade proposals involving Larsson, Klefbom or Nurse right now. Russell as well, at least until (if) Sekera is back and playing decent hockey.

Being soneone who liked Jason Smith very much I won't go into lenghts about why I think Larsson is the superior D man. Larsson did not break out offensively, I thought he'd be a 30+ D man at this point, my bad I guess. What he is though is an excellent complimentary D on a top pair containing another good D man. It was evident in NJ with Green and has been evident here when Klefbom has been on his game (and to a small extent playing for the national team, but sample size is too small). He struggles when he becomes "the guy" to anchor a pair.

In short, on a D core with something that resembles a #1 D man Larsson can fill a very important role, and be excellent at it. But yes, if that partner is not there or the D core is generally weaker, he it shows that he is not all what some of us hoped.

Look I expected more from him and I am disappointed that he hasn't taken that next step but still I think he is very much underrated amongst fans. He has been a +- machine, someone showed stats on that he is one of few D men who for whatever reason constantly keeps having + games much more frequently than - games. +- is what it is but when on the ice the team outscores the opponents much more frequently than not.

Bottom line is that I think that calling him a bottom pair D is ridculous, saying he wouldn't be top 3 on any other team is wrong and considering trading him would set this team back more than people realise.

Just my opinion of course.




Anyway, there are way bigger fish to fry than Larsson. He is not close to be a/the problem. In the fire Chia thread I'd start out with Manning and Lucic and then probably move to a dozen other issues before arriving at Larsson.

 

[Consultant]

Disgusting. I've never been so disgusted by this organization. Trade a decent forward for nothing then go and look for a forward. Chia is the laughing stock of the league and us fans just get to sit by and watch it all burn...

 

[Drivesaitl]

What I am saying with this is that IMO people should lay off trade proposals involving Larsson, Klefbom or Nurse right now. Russell as well, at least until (if) Sekera is back and playing decent hockey.

Being soneone who liked Jason Smith very much I won't go into lenghts about why I think Larsson is the superior D man. Larsson did not break out offensively, I thought he'd be a 30+ D man at this point, my bad I guess. What he is though is an excellent complimentary D on a top pair containing another good D man. It was evident in NJ with Green and has been evident here when Klefbom has been on his game (and to a small extent playing for the national team, but sample size is too small). He struggles when he becomes "the guy" to anchor a pair.

In short, on a D core with something that resembles a #1 D man Larsson can fill a very important role, and be excellent at it. But yes, if that partner is not there or the D core is generally weaker, he it shows that he is not all what some of us hoped.

Look I expected more from him and I am disappointed that he hasn't taken that next step but still I think he is very much underrated amongst fans. He has been a +- machine, someone showed stats on that he is one of few D men who for whatever reason constantly keeps having + games much more frequently than - games. +- is what it is but when on the ice the team outscores the opponents much more frequently than not.

Bottom line is that I think that calling him a bottom pair D is ridculous, saying he wouldn't be top 3 on any other team is wrong and considering trading him would set this team back more than people realise.

Just my opinion of course.




Anyway, there are way bigger fish to fry than Larsson. He is not close to be a/the problem. In the fire Chia thread I'd start out with Manning and Lucic and then probably move to a dozen other issues before arriving at Larsson.

For clarity, I wouldn't trade him whats done is done, but I certainly wouldn't have specifically traded for him, expecially concerning the return NJ got. Greene is it in NJ, the guy, I said that at the time, its more clear now. With all due respect some of the Larsson fans here were saying at the time Larsson was the one holding Green up. Really, away from Green, a quiet but exceptional D, Larsson is not nearly as good. Unfortunately something that I expected would be the case.

The reason that Larsson will always catch flack here, and I'm not saying its right, but its obvious. A team shouldn't even do a deal like this because of the optics and that fans don't ever forget. This deal was as untenable as any deal here since Gretz for Carson. Carson was doomed here from the start. Really it altered his whole hockey path. Its not something you get over. Of course Larsson is not filling those boots but he's not close to Carson value either. Carson was an elite allstar coming here.

I maintain that Larsson is Jason Smith, if that, but without the leadership qualities. Lets be clear here too. Adam is 26, this is what we got. It isn't getting appreciably better. He's at prime, he has back problems, and we're likely seeing performance drop off from here. Especially for a D that has to be physical to be effective. Adam doesn't read the game nearly well enough to just be a quiet solid D with silky smooth transition. Frankly he's never being that guy.

 

[BLabz]

Lucic has a good year in LA the year before he signed with us.

Lucic physically has had very few injuries. Is currently still actually physically fit.

The contract takes him to age 34, not 36 or 38 or 40.

There were many including myself that had no issues with Lucic's contract in terms or amount. His play historically. His conditioning historically. Plus his injury history suggested he would still be a somewhat effective nhler at age 34.

Lucic played approximately the first 40 games last year with decent production. His play literally fell off a cliff after that point and looks gone for good. Something no one could ever predict.

Something happened. I believe mentally. Since that "incident" his passing and shooting ability vanished. Like completely.

Lucic had a good shot. Could take and recieve high end passing plays. Was very easily a top 6 forward in terms of talent.

After the incident he no longer has top 6 talent. He has always been slow and in today's NHL that hurts as well. On top of that even his board work is terrible. He losses the vast majority of battles along the boards. He will finish a check but the puck always ends up on the opponents tape.

I can't express how shocked and disappointed I am with his play. I personally believe he either is playing this badly because he wants off the team or has had some kind of mental breakdown.

I'm a big fan of Lucic's. If by some miracle he can regain most of his game from 2015 he would be great for this team. It's been a full 82 games with his play being beyond terrible. I don't know what can be done. How long do you give him? He kills plays and makes the team worse right now. We can't afford to have a player like that on the team.

Obviously if we can trade him away without taking back an equally bad contract that would be best but that isn't likely. To say he has negative value is an understatement.

Try to trade over the summer? When that fails permanently bench him? Even laying big hits like he currently is I don't even like him on the fourth line.

For example Matt Hendricks was a much better fourth liner at age 35 when he played for us than Lucic is right now at age 30. If that doesn't put things into perspective I don't know what will. Heck, Hendricks is 37 now and may be the better hockey player.

Luc is this you ?

 

[Porkleaker]

I wonder what kind of job Chia will get after this, is there anything he's shown to be adept at? Poor talent analysis so scouting is out, poor communicator so media gigs are a no go, ...

I wouldn't trust him to manage a McDonald's, yet alone another hockey team. I like to picture him living under an overpass, all scruffy, clutching tightly to his bottle of "forget-me-nows" because he's too afraid to face the reality that he was once the worst GM in hockey. But here's him Working at McDonald's, see how happy he is? Because he knows he's not even fit to work there and should count himself lucky.

 

[Soundwave]

I wouldn't trust him to manage a McDonald's, yet alone another hockey team. I like to picture him living under an overpass, all scruffy, clutching tightly to his bottle of "forget-me-nows" because he's too afraid to face the reality that he was once the worst GM in hockey. But here's him Working at McDonald's, see how happy he is? Because he knows he's not even fit to work there and should count himself lucky.

I've traded the Big Mac rights to Burger King in exchange for their fries.

 

[MaxR11]

I wouldn't trust him to manage a McDonald's, yet alone another hockey team. I like to picture him living under an overpass, all scruffy, clutching tightly to his bottle of "forget-me-nows" because he's too afraid to face the reality that he was once the worst GM in hockey. But here's him Working at McDonald's, see how happy he is? Because he knows he's not even fit to work there and should count himself lucky.

how much does chia make a year?... i could be wrong but i thought it was $3 mil/year. he can basically retire. most people don't even make $3 mil their entire lives.

 

[Soundwave]

how much does chia make a year?... i could be wrong but i thought it was $3 mil/year. he can basically retire. most people don't even make $3 mil their entire lives.

He's set for life, good for him for fleecing a dumb owner.

That said he's also likely destroyed his GM career, he won't get a GM gig again just like Milbury hasn't gotten a sniff from anyone. Which is pretty sad for Chia given by GM terms, he's still relatively young.

He threw away probably 20 more years of GMing with his stupid moves here and now will forever be known as the guy who failed McDavid and got taken the cleaners for both Seguin and Hall.

Probably threw away 20-50 million+ in potential career earnings because he could have GMed for a long time. Hope Adam Larsson, Milan Lucic, and Griffin Reinhart were worth it, Chia. That's gotta sting.

 

[MaxR11]

He's set for life, good for him for fleecing a dumb owner.

That said he's also likely destroyed his GM career, he won't get a GM gig again just like Milbury hasn't gotten a sniff from anyone. Which is pretty sad for Chia given by GM terms, he's still relatively young.

He threw away probably 20 more years of GMing with his stupid moves here and now will forever be known as the guy who failed McDavid and got taken the cleaners for both Seguin and Hall.

Probably threw away 20 million+ in potential career earnings because he could have GMed for a long time. Hope Adam Larsson, Milan Lucic, and Griffin Reinhart were worth it, Chia.

dude's like mid 50s. he's got maybe another 25-30 years to enjoy life with his wealth. i'm not sure he really cares if he gms again. it irritates the he** out of me that someone like him makes so much more $ than i do.

 

[bone]

He's set for life, good for him for fleecing a dumb owner.

That said he's also likely destroyed his GM career, he won't get a GM gig again just like Milbury hasn't gotten a sniff from anyone. Which is pretty sad for Chia given by GM terms, he's still relatively young.

He threw away probably 20 more years of GMing with his stupid moves here and now will forever be known as the guy who failed McDavid and got taken the cleaners for both Seguin and Hall.

Probably threw away 20-50 million+ in potential career earnings because he could have GMed for a long time. Hope Adam Larsson, Milan Lucic, and Griffin Reinhart were worth it, Chia. That's gotta sting.

He could still get an assistant role or a scouting position somewhere and try to work himself back, but odds are at this point he'd have to do some amazing things to get another sniff 5-10 years from now.

Or he could go back to being an agent. Might even like it. I bet the other GMs in the league would.

 

[Soundwave]

dude's like mid 50s. he's got maybe another 25-30 years to enjoy life with his wealth. i'm not sure he really cares if he gms again. it irritates the he** out of me that someone like him makes so much more $ than i do.

Well I'm sure on one level he does love GMing (I would assume so anyway), so it would be quite a bitter turn to see you've locked yourself out of your profession.

20 more years of GMing at a conservative $2 million/year in salary = $40 million in lost revenue.

That said of course he won't be lining up at the poor house any time soon. Dallas Eakins likely made a nice fortune off the Oilers too though.

 

[Soundwave]

He could still get an assistant role or a scouting position somewhere and try to work himself back, but odds are at this point he'd have to do some amazing things to get another sniff 5-10 years from now.

Probably a slim chance. Once you get that reputation it's so hard to shake in this leauge and there's so few GM jobs really (relative to the number of people that want one) that it's hard to convince a team to take a chance on this guy over someone else that isn't weighed down by so much baggage.

Like Mike Milbury, I think the only job he's been able to get is working for NBC Sports.

 

[GOilers88]

For clarity, I wouldn't trade him whats done is done, but I certainly wouldn't have specifically traded for him, expecially concerning the return NJ got. Greene is it in NJ, the guy, I said that at the time, its more clear now. With all due respect some of the Larsson fans here were saying at the time Larsson was the one holding Green up. Really, away from Green, a quiet but exceptional D, Larsson is not nearly as good. Unfortunately something that I expected would be the case.

The reason that Larsson will always catch flack here, and I'm not saying its right, but its obvious. A team shouldn't even do a deal like this because of the optics and that fans don't ever forget. This deal was as untenable as any deal here since Gretz for Carson. Carson was doomed here from the start. Really it altered his whole hockey path. Its not something you get over. Of course Larsson is not filling those boots but he's not close to Carson value either. Carson was an elite allstar coming here.

I maintain that Larsson is Jason Smith, if that, but without the leadership qualities. Lets be clear here too. Adam is 26, this is what we got. It isn't getting appreciably better. He's at prime, he has back problems, and we're likely seeing performance drop off from here. Especially for a D that has to be physical to be effective. Adam doesn't read the game nearly well enough to just be a quiet solid D with silky smooth transition. Frankly he's never being that guy.

We're not seriously writing people off at 26 are we? That's really what it sounds like.

 

[Soundwave]

We're not seriously writing people off at 26 are we? That's really what it sounds like.

This is Larsson's 8th season in the NHL, he is what he is.

 

[GOilers88]

This is Larsson's 8th season in the NHL, he is what he is.

I'm talking about the part that says we should probably expect a drop in production. This whole myth that every guy that plays a physical game somehow wears down by age 30 is ridiculous.

Larsson's numbers are what they are. There's no reason to suspect that they're suddenly going to decrease because he turns 27..

For what he brings, at the cost he's at is great for this team. Especially for a team thin on any quality right handed defensemen. Evan Bouchard and Ethan Bear don't count.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm talking about the part that says we should probably expect a drop in production. This whole myth that every guy that plays a physical game somehow wears down by age 30 is ridiculous.

Larsson's numbers are what they are. There's no reason to suspect that they're suddenly going to decrease because he turns 27.

Dude is on pace for fewer than 2 goals this year, how much further can his offence even fall, lol.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Players have to be wondering wtf the GM is doing. I bet McDavid is super happy that he dropped $750,000 off of his salary so Chia could go out and get "better players" to make the team more competitive. Next time - if he decides to sign here - he will be asking for full pop, as he should have this time around.