Fire Chia Thread V: Manning and Petrovic and Spooner Oh ****!

Little Fury

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
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From the last thread by @Zaddy

I mean, you are technically right but they were 1 game away from the WCF's but got screwed over by poor reffing. Making the WCF's would've been a very deep playoff run, taking round 2 to game 7 is still fairly deep. It's not like they just laid over and died once they reached the 2nd round.

People keep talking about how we got screwed vs. Anaheim, but forget how lucky we were to get a Sharks team that had a one-legged Jumbo, Couture playing with his face caved in and Marleau with a broken hand. Stuff happens. Point is, that season looks for all the world like a one-off. This current team is also much worse than that team.
 
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Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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Honestly I don’t remember many people being happy about the Lucic contract. Some were of course “yay! Our player can beat up your dads” kind of thing, but pretty much everybody was fully aware that the contract would be an absolute boat anchor before it was done. The only variable was how soon. Iirc my take on it was that we’d be a slightly better team for two or three years, then we’d deeply regret it the rest of the way.

Lucic has a good year in LA the year before he signed with us.

Lucic physically has had very few injuries. Is currently still actually physically fit.

The contract takes him to age 34, not 36 or 38 or 40.

There were many including myself that had no issues with Lucic's contract in terms or amount. His play historically. His conditioning historically. Plus his injury history suggested he would still be a somewhat effective nhler at age 34.

Lucic played approximately the first 40 games last year with decent production. His play literally fell off a cliff after that point and looks gone for good. Something no one could ever predict.

Something happened. I believe mentally. Since that "incident" his passing and shooting ability vanished. Like completely.

Lucic had a good shot. Could take and recieve high end passing plays. Was very easily a top 6 forward in terms of talent.

After the incident he no longer has top 6 talent. He has always been slow and in today's NHL that hurts as well. On top of that even his board work is terrible. He losses the vast majority of battles along the boards. He will finish a check but the puck always ends up on the opponents tape.

I can't express how shocked and disappointed I am with his play. I personally believe he either is playing this badly because he wants off the team or has had some kind of mental breakdown.

I'm a big fan of Lucic's. If by some miracle he can regain most of his game from 2015 he would be great for this team. It's been a full 82 games with his play being beyond terrible. I don't know what can be done. How long do you give him? He kills plays and makes the team worse right now. We can't afford to have a player like that on the team.

Obviously if we can trade him away without taking back an equally bad contract that would be best but that isn't likely. To say he has negative value is an understatement.

Try to trade over the summer? When that fails permanently bench him? Even laying big hits like he currently is I don't even like him on the fourth line.

For example Matt Hendricks was a much better fourth liner at age 35 when he played for us than Lucic is right now at age 30. If that doesn't put things into perspective I don't know what will. Heck, Hendricks is 37 now and may be the better hockey player.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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From the last thread by @Zaddy



People keep talking about how we got screwed vs. Anaheim, but forget how lucky we were to get a Sharks team that had a one-legged Jumbo, Couture playing with his face caved in and Marleau with a broken hand. Stuff happens. Point is, that season looks for all the world like a one-off. This current team is also much worse than that team.

I hate this thought process.

2016-2017 was not a one off. Many players on that team had average or bad years. Few had career years.

Our top 4 defenders that year were Sekera Russell and Klefbom Larsson. 3 of our top 4 defenders from 2016-2017 have been injured the majority of this year. Larsson hasn't been as good either.

Our goaltending this year has been average to terrible at best this year and was atrocious last year.

Despite all the above and other weird issues we are 3 points out of a playoff spot.

Any fool can see that the team on paper if healthy and functioning at a "respectable" level would easily be a playoff team this year.
 

Consultant

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Sep 12, 2010
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Peter Chirelli is destroying the Oilers. 95% of his trades he loses and about 50% of those are so bad he is ridiculed by all pundits. He must be fired now. Nicholson and his audit needs to be canned too for letting this happen. Bobby’s biggest contribution so far is inspiring a $18 hamburger... Fire Chia Today, don’t make us die hard Oiler fans cheer for our Oilers to lose just to ensure this loser is fired.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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I hate this thought process.

2016-2017 was not a one off. Many players on that team had average or bad years. Few had career years.

Our top 4 defenders that year were Sekera Russell and Klefbom Larsson. 3 of our top 4 defenders from 2016-2017 have been injured the majority of this year. Larsson hasn't been as good either.

Our goaltending this year has been average to terrible at best this year and was atrocious last year.

Despite all the above and other weird issues we are 3 points out of a playoff spot.

Any fool can see that the team on paper if healthy and functioning at a "respectable" level would easily be a playoff team this year
.

So, if everything goes perfectly and the team doesn't experience the normal ups and downs and injuries every team faces they'd be a wild card team.

Whoopee?

I don't care about scratching into the playoff spot so we can get bulldozed by a team with actual depth. I don't want a team than needs an absolute best case scenario to squeak into the playoffs while icing the best player on the planet. Real sustainable success is the goal and this team is a 100 miles from that.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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Peter Chirelli is destroying the Oilers. 95% of his trades he loses and about 50% of those are so bad he is ridiculed by all pundits. He must be fired now. Nicholson and his audit needs to be canned too for letting this happen. Bobby’s biggest contribution so far is inspiring a $18 hamburger... Fire Chia Today, don’t make us die hard Oiler fans cheer for our Oilers to lose just to ensure this loser is fired.

Don't equate losing with Chiarelli being fired.

The two should be completely separate things.

Imperical evidence suggests that at the end of the 2016-2017 season Peter Chiarelli was one of the best GMs in the league.

Right now he looks really bad.

For me trades like the Strome for Spooner trade or acquiring Manning are blatant stupid moves. More so than Hall for Larsson or acquiring Lucic or Ebs for Strome.

His last few trades are pure acts of desperation and unfortunately it will probably take one or two more of those to get him fired.

The Oilers winning or losing should have no effect on him staying or going.

At this point I want the team to succeed and for Chiarelli to either be fired or just stop making these blatant bad moves.

The key thing to remember is removing Chiarelli will not magically make the team better. The organization needs massive changed outside the GM before any positive change is likely.
 
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Aerchon

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So, if everything goes perfectly and the team doesn't experience the normal ups and downs and injuries every team faces they'd be a wild card team.

Whoopee?

I don't care about scratching into the playoff spot so we can get bulldozed by a team with actual depth. I don't want a team than needs an absolute best case scenario to squeak into the playoffs while icing the best player on the planet. Real sustainable success is the goal and this team is a 100 miles from that.

We have more playoff success with this team than Calgary does.

We only have one sample size to go off and it's pretty damn good.

Step one. Get into the playoffs.

Step two. Do damage in the playoffs. Maybe even win a Cup. Once in anything can happen. McDavid...

Step three get lucky in drafting or development like other powerhouse teams.

Step four be a powerhouse and make the playoffs and hopefully win the cup but realize even being a perennial powerhouse it's extremely unlikely a cup is possible.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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We have more playoff success with this team than Calgary does.

Why are you pretending this is the same team as 16-17? This version is basically missing 60% of the top 10 scorers from that season, plus the goaltending has completely fallen off.

We only have one sample size to go off and it's pretty damn good.

Just gonna pretend last year didn't happen, huh?

Step one. Get into the playoffs.

Step two. Do damage in the playoffs. Maybe even win a Cup. Once in anything can happen. McDavid...

Step three get lucky in drafting or development like other powerhouse teams.

Step four be a powerhouse and make the playoffs and hopefully win the cup but realize even being a perennial powerhouse it's extremely unlikely a cup is possible.

This team has neither the high end talent nor the depth to go deep. When was the last time a team with one scoring line did jack in the playoffs?

This team is closer to a rebuilding club than any sort of powerhouse. 2-3 years away with a smart GM.
 
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Frank the Tank

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Aug 15, 2005
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What I don't get is with Garrison, Wideman, Spooner, Manning, Petrovic, etc... is that the analytics numbers on these guys were bad before Chiarelli acquired them. It's almost as either management ignores/dismisses such metrics or they have an internal analytics person/team that had different metrics saying that they were decent players. Either of these scenarios worries me if this management team is allowed to continue running the Oilers.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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What I don't get is with Garrison, Wideman, Spooner, Manning, Petrovic, etc... is that the analytics numbers on these guys were bad before Chiarelli acquired them. It's almost as either management ignores/dismisses such metrics or they have an internal analytics person/team that had different metrics saying that they were decent players. Either of these scenarios worries me if this management team is allowed to continue running the Oilers.

Remember when Chia re-signed Russell and claimed he was one of the best D men in the league at zone exits despite there being publicly available data showing the exact opposite?
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Don't equate losing with Chiarelli being fired.

The two should be completely separate things.

Imperical evidence suggests that at the end of the 2016-2017 season Peter Chiarelli was one of the best GMs in the league.

So was Dorion. Then what happened?
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Crawling into the playoffs = winning the Stanley Cup for the Oilers. Pretty obvious that's where the base line for this organization is, they have no plan beyond that.

Just get Katz his playoff revenue to buy the dummy GM more time and waste more of McDavid's career.

They're hoping for (in the best case) the same type of thing the Islanders had with Tavares where they'd make the playoffs every other year, get beat in round 1 or 2, but at least get some playoff revenue.

And the only reason they're even close is because the bottom of the West is incredibly weak right now weaker than its been in 10+ years. The Canucks have the same amount of points as the Oilers with Petterson being hurt for at least 1/4 of their games which is pathetic.

16-17 season was a mirage built on Talbot having an one-off Vezina tier season that he's clearly not able to replicate.
 

ConnorMcNugesaitl

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Sep 23, 2012
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Don't equate losing with Chiarelli being fired.

The two should be completely separate things.

Imperical evidence suggests that at the end of the 2016-2017 season Peter Chiarelli was one of the best GMs in the league.

Right now he looks really bad.

For me trades like the Strome for Spooner trade or acquiring Manning are blatant stupid moves. More so than Hall for Larsson or acquiring Lucic or Ebs for Strome.

His last few trades are pure acts of desperation and unfortunately it will probably take one or two more of those to get him fired.

The Oilers winning or losing should have no effect on him staying or going.

At this point I want the team to succeed and for Chiarelli to either be fired or just stop making these blatant bad moves.

The key thing to remember is removing Chiarelli will not magically make the team better. The organization needs massive changed outside the GM before any positive change is likely.

Are you joking?

The team making the playoffs doesn't make him even a good GM let alone one of the best in the league.

At that point the Reinhart blemish still overshadowed the good that he did with Talbot, Maroon and Sekera.

Lucic was already a question mark given his poor 5 on 5 scoring and playoffs but you somehow believe Chia was one of the best in the league based on some evidence you fail to produce.

Where do you get your drugs and can you hook me up?
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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Lucic has a good year in LA the year before he signed with us.

Lucic physically has had very few injuries. Is currently still actually physically fit.

The contract takes him to age 34, not 36 or 38 or 40.

There were many including myself that had no issues with Lucic's contract in terms or amount. His play historically. His conditioning historically. Plus his injury history suggested he would still be a somewhat effective nhler at age 34.

Lucic played approximately the first 40 games last year with decent production. His play literally fell off a cliff after that point and looks gone for good. Something no one could ever predict.

Something happened. I believe mentally. Since that "incident" his passing and shooting ability vanished. Like completely.

Lucic had a good shot. Could take and recieve high end passing plays. Was very easily a top 6 forward in terms of talent.

After the incident he no longer has top 6 talent. He has always been slow and in today's NHL that hurts as well. On top of that even his board work is terrible. He losses the vast majority of battles along the boards. He will finish a check but the puck always ends up on the opponents tape.

I can't express how shocked and disappointed I am with his play. I personally believe he either is playing this badly because he wants off the team or has had some kind of mental breakdown.

I'm a big fan of Lucic's. If by some miracle he can regain most of his game from 2015 he would be great for this team. It's been a full 82 games with his play being beyond terrible. I don't know what can be done. How long do you give him? He kills plays and makes the team worse right now. We can't afford to have a player like that on the team.

Obviously if we can trade him away without taking back an equally bad contract that would be best but that isn't likely. To say he has negative value is an understatement.

Try to trade over the summer? When that fails permanently bench him? Even laying big hits like he currently is I don't even like him on the fourth line.

For example Matt Hendricks was a much better fourth liner at age 35 when he played for us than Lucic is right now at age 30. If that doesn't put things into perspective I don't know what will. Heck, Hendricks is 37 now and may be the better hockey player.


what is the "incident" you are referring to?
 

space321

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May 11, 2011
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Imperical evidence suggests that at the end of the 2016-2017 season Peter Chiarelli was one of the best GMs in the league.

*empirical

And uhm no.... empirical evidence suggests that Mcdavid was the best player in the league, and he had a decent enough supporting cast to get past SJS.

Current empirical evidence suggests that Chiarelli is by FAR the worst GM in the league, and that the Oilers are nowhere near being contenders, which is what one would hope for with McDavid on their team.
 

redgrant

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Nov 2, 2013
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*empirical

And uhm no.... empirical evidence suggests that Mcdavid was the best player in the league, and he had a decent enough supporting cast to get past SJS.

Current empirical evidence suggests that Chiarelli is by FAR the worst GM in the league, and that the Oilers are nowhere near being contenders, which is what one would hope for with McDavid on their team.

*History of the league.
 

Aerchon

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
10,491
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Are you joking?

The team making the playoffs doesn't make him even a good GM let alone one of the best in the league.

At that point the Reinhart blemish still overshadowed the good that he did with Talbot, Maroon and Sekera.

Lucic was already a question mark given his poor 5 on 5 scoring and playoffs but you somehow believe Chia was one of the best in the league based on some evidence you fail to produce.

Where do you get your drugs and can you hook me up?

He took a team with no top 3 defenders and built a team/blue line that went to within one goal of a conference finals and was nominated for best GM of the year...

What are you smoking.

I'm not a Chiarelli supporter but ignoring his success is just blatant hatred with no basis in reality.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
10,491
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what is the "incident" you are referring to?

Pure speculation on my part.

There was an incident mentioned around that time about his kid being mocked/harassed for Lucic's poor play but again even that may haveven nothing to do with anything.

Thought I read something about his wife missing her family or something as well.

Again just speculation.

It's very weird for someone's play to completely drop off a cliff like that.

Also the rumors he is open to be involved traded.

Also reports that he had some mental issues he worked on in the offseason.

Could be a combo of things.
 

Domino1

Registered User
Aug 5, 2007
155
10
So, if everything goes perfectly and the team doesn't experience the normal ups and downs and injuries every team faces they'd be a wild card team.

Whoopee?

I don't care about scratching into the playoff spot so we can get bulldozed by a team with actual depth. I don't want a team than needs an absolute best case scenario to squeak into the playoffs while icing the best player on the planet. Real sustainable success is the goal and this team is a 100 miles from that.

Well to be fair in 2006 they squeaked into the playoffs and that turned out fairly ok.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
22,936
17,813
He deserves one more chance. 1st, jones and Yams for Marc Staal? We need more "not sexy" on this team. It's still too sexy.
 
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foshizzle

Registered User
Feb 1, 2007
4,011
3,016
Chia is not getting fired. He is Nicholson's guy, and Bobby Nick's is an honorary OBC member. Katz doesn't have the balls to go against Gretz.
 

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