World Cup: FINAL: France vs. Croatia, 7/15/2018

[bluesfan94]

No there absolutely isn't. Hell, I wouldn't trade Modrić for that whole lot and I find it absurd someone could claim a team devoid of any creativity in midfield is as talented as the team that has Kovačić and Kramarić on the bench.

Like I said, the difference comes in that England is probably more talented up front while Croatia is more talented in the midfield. I think I would slightly favor England's defense as well, although Lovren played phenomenally. There's at least an argument possible. Again, I wouldn't make it.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Looking at England's two big chances again. Kane's chance and Lingard's shot that went wide.

Both times the big problem was open space for Lingard in the center of the pitch just outside the box. In both situations, Croatian defenders converged upon Alli who had the ball on the left side and who then managed to pass it into the middle to Lingard.

In the first situation Lingard then slips the ball through to Kane who is open because Lovren took four steps toward the ball and Sterling in spite of Vida's presence in the area. That was a mental mistake by Lovren who simply forgot Kane was there (He's not playing Kane offside as he takes lateral steps, it's quite obvious he simply got distracted by the ball movement.)

In the second situation, Croatia was scrambling a bit because Kane made a run from midfield and defenders lost sight of Alli for a moment as they focused on him. Once Alli had the ball in promising position, they scramble and their attention turned toward him.

Lingard was the trailing runner and was wide open. Vrsaljko and Brozovic are then focused on confronting Alli, Lovren is tracking near Alli but seems to have an eye on Kane to prevent a pass that way, Vida is covering Sterling. Rakitic is near Kane as well. Meanwhile Strinic is stranded on his side.

Lingard's shooting lane is open for a second as there's a gap between Vida and Strinic. But Lingard is in a bad position toward the ball, needs to adjust and cannot take a clean hard shot in that second as Vida and Strinic converge. His eventual shot is off.

I feel like Strinic messed up in both situations as he is covering his side without Trippier or any other English player anywhere near there while Lingard is moving into that open space. One could argue that Rakitic can also move in there, but Strinic is the only player without an obvious assignment in both situations.

France would probably be a lot less forgiving of such mistakes.

 

[cgf]

Quite frankly I was too, after all, I voted for Colombia, but sadly they decided to act like clowns rather than play football.

I knew that the mindset Pekermann imparts to that team was going to piss me off at some point *sigh*

I let myself get way too excited about seeing a healthy Falcao join James, Cuadrado, Arias, Mojica & one (or two) of Quintero, Izquierdo & Racist-dona, before the tourney

 

[YNWA14]

Make no mistake, England have a very good chance to build on this WC. People writing this off as a one-off haven't been paying attention to the changes in English youth development or how well those youth teams have been doing.

When the senior team starts integrating players like Sancho, Brewster, Foden, Alexander-Arnold, Hudson-Odoi, Gomez, Oxford, Sessegnon, etc. etc. etc. (note, they won't all make it but they have a ton of great young players coming up) they're going to be a force under the right coaching and with the right mentality (two things that are extremely important at this level).

I mean, in 4 years the potential for a team like this is very high.

Sancho - Kane - Brewster
Winks - Foden
Henderson
Sessegnon - Stones - Gomez - TAA
Pickford​

 

[ndgt10]

Thought this thread was about France vs Croatia. Take this England talk somewhere else.

 

[cgf]

Like I said, the difference comes in that England is probably more talented up front while Croatia is more talented in the midfield. I think I would slightly favor England's defense as well, although Lovren played phenomenally. There's at least an argument possible. Again, I wouldn't make it.

Englands not much better up front...if they even are, Kane's the best forward on either side -- despite not scoring from open play at this tourney (IIRC) -- but taking a Pep-less-Sterling over Perisic, Kramaric, Robo-Mario, or a hot Rebic is no sure thing, and I'd take any of those 5 over Rashford/Lingard/etc...while the gap in midfield is utterly jarring.

Which is what the play reflected. Whenever England had to string passes together they would get more uncomfortable with each completion, while the Croats looked better the more they slung that ball around the pitch. That's what happens when a worldclass midfield goes up against a mediocre one.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

You can name all the overhyped prospects you'd like...it doesn't change their approach to the game at the senior level. England had a tremendous chance to make it to the final with all the usual suspects having subpar campaigns due to various reasons. It was really the perfect storm for them to make it and they still couldn't. A nation of 4 million at times walked them off the pitch.

All I saw from England was typical England hoff ball for 120 minutes all difference was they managed to score a goal early. Alpha Hendo was one of the bigger reasons why they couldn't create anything the guy just kept kicking the ball in hopes Sterling/Lindgard latch on to it. Mind you I think that he was instructed to do so but that right there is the problem with English football and until they fix their approach to the game they are not going anywhere. Despite some talented up and comers.

 

[cgf]

I feel like Strinic messed up in both situations as he is covering his side without Trippier or any other English player anywhere near there while Lingard is moving into that open space. One could argue that Rakitic can also move in there, but Strinic is the only player without an obvious assignment in both situations.

...there's a reason I keep trying to come up with ways to make a 3-5-2, that gets Strinic off the pitch for them, work

 

[Live in the Now]

Which is what the play reflected. Whenever England had to string passes together they would get more uncomfortable with each completion, while the Croats looked better the more they slung that ball around the pitch. That's what happens when a worldclass midfield goes up against a mediocre one.

I think this had much more to do with the defenders looking totally uncomfortable with the ball, in combination with forward players not coming back to show for it.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Make no mistake, England have a very good chance to build on this WC. People writing this off as a one-off haven't been paying attention to the changes in English youth development or how well those youth teams have been doing.

When the senior team starts integrating players like Sancho, Brewster, Foden, Alexander-Arnold, Hudson-Odoi, Gomez, Oxford, Sessegnon, etc. etc. etc. (note, they won't all make it but they have a ton of great young players coming up) they're going to be a force under the right coaching and with the right mentality (two things that are extremely important at this level).

I mean, in 4 years the potential for a team like this is very high.

Sancho - Kane - Brewster
Winks - Foden
Henderson
Sessegnon - Stones - Gomez - TAA
Pickford​

Can’t forget about Gomez or Chong from United. They look like they’ll be good players in the future as well.

 

[cgf]

Make no mistake, England have a very good chance to build on this WC. People writing this off as a one-off haven't been paying attention to the changes in English youth development or how well those youth teams have been doing.

When the senior team starts integrating players like Sancho, Brewster, Foden, Alexander-Arnold, Hudson-Odoi, Gomez, Oxford, Sessegnon, etc. etc. etc. (note, they won't all make it but they have a ton of great young players coming up) they're going to be a force under the right coaching and with the right mentality (two things that are extremely important at this level).

I mean, in 4 years the potential for a team like this is very high.

Sancho - Kane - Brewster
Winks - Foden
Henderson
Sessegnon - Stones - Gomez - TAA
Pickford​

Let me know when one of those young midfielders establishes himself as a star at the senior level. I don't doubt they can craft more modern attackers than they used to & produce athletic defenders who aren't as hopeless on the ball, but...although Winks & Foden are promising...they haven't even produced a midfielder like Scholes yet. Much less a maestro that will let them truly compete against the big boys.

This should be the most exciting time English fans have had since their "golden generation" (lol) kicked off, but let's see if they've actually got a world class midfielder in the system before we overhype the next Wilshere.

I think this had much more to do with the defenders looking totally uncomfortable with the ball, in combination with forward players not coming back to show for it.

I noticed Kane & Sterling dropping deep for the ball & Stones isn't uncomfortable on the ball in Manchester, where he trusts his midfielders & has a possession structure he can rely on. So even that concern to me goes back to the root problem england has tactically & in it's midfield.

 

[Live in the Now]

All I saw from England was typical England hoff ball for 120 minutes all difference was they managed to score a goal early. Alpha Hendo was one of the bigger reasons why they couldn't create anything the guy just kept kicking the ball in hopes Sterling/Lindgard latch on to it. Mind you I think that he was instructed to do so but that right there is the problem with English football and until they fix their approach to the game they are not going anywhere. Despite some talented up and comers.

You are forgiven for blaming Henderson, but he was also the major reason England didn't lose far sooner in this game or other rounds. For a nation that prides itself on hard tackling and interceptions, they have nobody else who knows how to stop attacks from coming forward.

Their team tactic throughout the tournament was to play long and he merely carried it out. We know that he's capable of better, but he is also very tactically disciplined and will do whatever a manager tells him to do.

Let me know when one of those young midfielders establishes himself as a star at the senior level. I don't doubt they can craft more modern attackers than they used to & produce athletic defenders who aren't as hopeless on the ball, but...although Winks & Foden are promising...they haven't even produced a midfielder like Scholes yet. Much less a maestro that will let them truly compete against the big boys.

This should be the most exciting time English fans have had since their "golden generation" (lol) kicked off, but let's see if they've actually got a world class midfielder in the system before we overhype the next Wilshere.

Alexander-Arnold will wind up being a CM for the NT. Their hopes at CM aren't great at all. They could move him and Sessegnon there but that's usually not good when you have two of the best prospects in the world who play fullback and have to move them to CM in order to play decent football.

 

[robertmac43]

Henderson

you think 32 year old Henderson will be there? I guess as holding Mid having experience is good. I just feel like he will be less effective by then.

 

[Ivan13]

I think this had much more to do with the defenders looking totally uncomfortable with the ball, in combination with forward players not coming back to show for it.

What made it more hilarious was Ferdinand praising Stones for how he played with the ball in his feet, dude was worse than Strinic.

 

[Live in the Now]

Also, I forgot about Curtis Jones, but he won't be ready to play for England by the time of the next WC. He's pretty good though. Grealish decided to play for England as well. These are not #6's though by any definition and are much better closer to the goal.

Lewis Cook on the other hand is a good prospect who will be in Henderson's position by the time of the next WC.

 

[amj h]

Basically it sounds right superficially but in actuality, isn't. Saying that the better team is the one that wins is not accurate.



I don't know if I would make the argument, and it's hard to do because of the difference in formations, but if you take the lineups, there's an argument to be had.

I've been thinking about this. Yes god help us all, I've been thinking

We compete to decide who the best is. Winners win. Losers lose. The best team alway wins.

 

[cgf]

What made it more hilarious was Ferdinand praising Stones for how he played with the ball in his feet, dude was worse than Strinic.

What's telling is that Stones actually is good with the ball at his feet when he has Pep's structure & a midfield that can do most of the work in their build up play. But when he's put in an antiquated longball-based system behind a mediocre midfield, he looks like he did.

This run highlighted the shortcomings of the outdated approach to the game that is still favored in English punditry & some german fans who are still mad at pep for dominating with Bayern so thoroughly that they can't even begin to criticize what his football did in germanny. It's wasn't proof that Mourinho-ball still works.

 

[cgf]

I've been thinking about this. Yes god help us all, I've been thinking

We compete to decide who the best is. Winners win. Losers lose. The best team alway wins.

No, the winning team always wins, that's not the same thing.

...says the german who proudly bangs on about the 4 stars on our shirt with no shame...

 

[amj h]

No, the winning team always wins, that's not the same thing.

...says the german who proudly bangs on about the 4 stars on our shirt with no shame...

We are not going to agree.

 

[cgf]

We are not going to agree.

Which often happens when one comes in stating an opinion as a fact & is unwilling to even discuss the notion

 

[YNWA14]

you think 32 year old Henderson will be there? I guess as holding Mid having experience is good. I just feel like he will be less effective by then.

I think as long as his body doesn't fail him (which isn't guaranteed) he should be. It's always good to have a mix of youth and experience, and experience is especially important on the defensive side so having a pairing of Jones/Gomez is probably not that likely either.

 

[bluesfan94]

I've been thinking about this. Yes god help us all, I've been thinking

We compete to decide who the best is. Winners win. Losers lose. The best team alway wins.

Today I learned Wigan Athletic is better than Manchester City.

 

[bluesfan94]

Sancho - Kane - Brewster
Winks - Foden
Henderson
Sessegnon - Stones - Gomez - TAA
Pickford

No Alli? No Rashford/Lingard? No Sterling? I would like to commend you on only picking 4 current Liverpool players though.

 

[Ceremony]

Mind that time England were in a World Cup final in this millennium?

Naw?

Me neither.

 

[Ceremony]

Mind that time Harry Winks was going to be near an England squad?

Naw?