World Cup: FINAL: France vs. Croatia, 7/15/2018

[Ivan13]

The offside would almost certainly have been overturned on VAR to be fair. I do agree that while England was suffocating Croatia in the early going and looked like the much better side then, it didn't yield a ton of clear chances.

As far as chances other than Kane's go, I remember Lingard pulling a great shooting opportunity wide and a header saved off the line. That's not all that much, obviously, but it bears pointing out that Croatia produced almost nothing of note in the 1st half. I think that Croatia's inability to mount much of an offensive threat was the real surprise for everyone, and why England seemed to have the upper hand playing with a lead. At that point in time England were pressing like the best of Klopp sides, and Croatia looked a bit slow in comparison. That fed into the narratives going into the game of a tired Croatia running out of steam.

Given their shortcomings in the skill department, this was always going to be England's best chance at success in this tournament. Score some way - probably a set piece - then defend the opposition to a standstill for the rest of the match. They didn't get that done and, of course, and it's relatively easy to see why in hindsight. In order to bring a lead home safely, you must control midfield. Once they stopped pressing all over - probably just don't have the horses to do that to be honest - England's midfield was absolutely hopeless vs Croatia's midfield.

I'm not sure how that works, I know that earlier in the tournament the expert on Croatian TV said something that once that flag goes up it is over because it might be argued that it influenced play, even though it clearly didn't here. If that first shot went in it would probably be overturned, the 2nd I have no idea.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

It was called offside, but the only reason why the linesman flagged when he did is when it was no longer a goal-scoring opportunity and it was just a matter of whether or not England would get a corner, because he wanted the play to pan out so that VAR could take care of it if Kane scored. If the ball enters the net, the linesman doesn't flag, it goes to VAR, and it stands. The sequence of events there was important.

 

[Ivan13]

It was called offside, but the only reason why the linesman flagged when he did is when it was no longer a goal-scoring opportunity and it was just a matter of whether or not England would get a corner, because he wanted the play to pan out so that VAR could take care of it if Kane scored. If the ball enters the net, the linesman doesn't flag, it goes to VAR, and it stands. The sequence of events there was important.

You're probably right. But they do need to sort this out better, VAR is a step in the right direction, but they need to perfect it.

 

[Harry22]

Which was called offside? They had one chance after that in regulation, the one where Lingard missed the goal by five feet. Speaking of teams they beat to get here, we didn't play world-beaters, but neither did France save for Belgium. They barely beat Australia and Peru, drew level with Denmark, beat a broken Argentine team, Cavani-less Uruguay and Belgium. Listening to some you'd think they got past Brazil, Germany and God knows who and that we played the likes of Panama.

It's easy to denigrate the teams your opposition beat to advance your agenda. ''Barely beat'' Australia is code for France dominated the game and suffocated the opposition. Denmark-France was a game both teams wanted a draw, France played their B team and Denmark was satisfied with a draw to move on. They then did what they had to do and beat all of their opponents in regulation.

Now I am not here to debate who had the tougher schedule, both teams beat who they had to beat to get here and both are deserving finalists. Croatia will have its toughest test in France come Sunday and France will have to prove they can finish the job, something they did not do in 2016.

 

[Ivan13]

It's easy to denigrate the teams your opposition beat to advance your agenda. ''Barely beat'' Australia is code for France dominated the game and suffocated the opposition. Denmark-France was a game both teams wanted a draw, France played their B team and Denmark was satisfied with a draw to move on. They then did what they had to do and beat all of their opponents in regulation.

Now I am not here to debate who had the tougher schedule, both teams beat who they had to beat to get here and both are deserving finalists. Croatia will have its toughest test in France come Sunday and France will have to prove they can finish the job, something they did not do in 2016.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Harry22]

Pot meet kettle.

I did not denigrate who Croatia beat just stating facts that they needed PK to beat two inferior opponents, don't you agree? They then went on to beat England (an arguably superior opponent) in convincing manner.

 

[Ivan13]

England a superior opponent? To who?

 

[YNWA14]

I did not denigrate who Croatia beat just stating facts that they needed PK to beat two inferior opponents, don't you agree? They then went on to beat England (an arguably superior opponent) in convincing manner.

What?

 

[Evilo]

Being called offside and being offside isn't always the same thing, no?

PS

Which is why those two shots aren't added to the total of shots that were on target.

Var would have accepted the goal.

 

[Harry22]

What?

England was arguably a superior opponent to Croatia per most experts before the match started.

 

[Harry22]

England a superior opponent? To who?

So you would prefer if I said they barely beat three inferior opponents (2 in PK) on their way to the final?

 

[ViD]

Croatia is the Golden Knights of the World Cup. M
Amazing run, but it ends with a clearly better team winning.

France wins 2018 WC.

 

[Ivan13]

Var would have accepted the goal.

Looking at what WBS posted, yes, most likely.

 

[Ivan13]

England was arguably a superior opponent to Croatia per most experts before the match started.

Rio Ferdinand, Garry Neville and the rest of homerific English press do not represent most experts. It is patently absurd to call that lot a superior team to the group that has Modrić, Rakitić, Subašić, Vrsaljko, Brozović etc.

 

[Ivan13]

So you would prefer if I said they barely beat three inferior opponents (2 in PK) on their way to the final?

What I prefer is to stick to facts. Both teams had their warts in getting here, apart from one game France had issues scoring and that is a question mark for them, of our 6 games, we outplayed 5 opposing teams throughout most of the games (dominated Iceland, Argentina, Nigeria throughout the games Russia for the entire 2nd half and ET, same with England and struggled against a bus parking Denmark that was a nightmare matchup for us), but like France lacked finish in some of them.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I was neutral going into this, but the calls for justice by Lovren and Modric b/c f***ing Ian Wright picked England is a laughable. Amazing they withstood the oppression of Piers Morgan's twitter account. FOH with this.

Plus I just saw the Croatian PM present Dumpy pants with his own customized jersey. NOPE.

France it is.

 

[Ivan13]

Yeah, shame on Lovren for feeling good about sticking it to halfwits who treated him like absolute shit.

 

[YNWA14]

Looking at what WBS posted, yes, most likely.

Do you have a link to it? I've been trying to find a good angle of the play. The only one I can find (FIFA on Youtube) Kane looks offside by an inch with his shoulder.

 

[cgf]

It was legendary stuff. I think it was Pep incognito tbh. Either that or Bielsa considering his temperament and his coaching license from multiple countries.

Ugh, link me. Now!

This wasn't the guy who's been playing pro in germany for years, was it?

 

[cgf]

This isn't a thread for ridiculous wishes for 50 year old men to play sports. I will ban people from it if need be and if you think I'm talking about you, don't respond to this post.

What about 73 year olds?

 

[cgf]

Who was the poster that was ****ting on Mandzukic for being a starter before the WC?

He’s been great for Croatia.

I dunno if anyone else was but I questioned whether he had the gas tank to be more than a joker and argued that given the class of Perisic, Kramaric & Rebic that Mandzo should be used off the bench, so his tenacity can take advantage of tired legs.

But I forgot that Mario is more machine now.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

In general, with a few notable exceptions only, you tend to like your own players a lot better if you don't hear them talk much. I think Modric and Lovren are guys who certainly can be called 'controversial' (see their involvement in the corruption scandals in Croatia) on a personal level.

Of course, getting to the World Cup Final (even if they lose) will likely put a halo over their head for the rest of their lives and all those problems for them in Croatia could 'disappear'. Of course, it doesn't change the fact that they were probably complicit in a scheme that was designed to enrich a few men at the cost of Croatian football's future..but people have short attention spans.

 

[bluesfan94]

I think there's definitely an argument to be made that England is equal if not superior to Croatia in terms of overall talent. The problem is that Croatia has an amazing midfield while England does not.

 

[amj h]

England was arguably a superior opponent to Croatia per most experts before the match started.

You know the better team usually wins. That is why they are better.

 

[Incubajerks]

I think there's definitely an argument to be made that England is equal if not superior to Croatia in terms of overall talent. The problem is that Croatia has an amazing midfield while England does not.

Not even close, without considering the fact that as usual in the moments that really count England is not able neither to suffer nor to hurt. They should stick to cricket. A world cup of this kind will never happen again for them.