Final Fantasy VII Remake - OFFICIALLY RELEASED!! (No Spoilers)

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I just hope the remake explains the plot better. I could tell you the plot to every other FF game I've played but not VII.

 

[syz]

I just hope the remake explains the plot better. I could tell you the plot to every other FF game I've played but not VII.

Capitalistic over-industrialization bad.

Also aliens (but really just colonialism.)

 

[Commander Clueless]

I just hope the remake explains the plot better. I could tell you the plot to every other FF game I've played but not VII.

I really don't have much experience with the original game, so I'm hoping the story is close enough to be a good first foray into the legendary game.

I'm not much of a FF player, but my wife is. I think she was planning on playing, so I might tag along with a couch-side seat.


Friends have told me I should just play the original, but those early 3D graphics give me a headache these days.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I really don't have much experience with the original game, so I'm hoping the story is close enough to be a good first foray into the legendary game.

I'm not much of a FF player, but my wife is. I think she was planning on playing, so I might tag along with a couch-side seat.


Friends have told me I should just play the original, but those early 3D graphics give me a headache these days.

If you have a Switch, it is actually fairly palatable on that console.

 

[Shareefruck]

The main trouble with getting that story straight in FFVII is that it's basically three or four levels deep of unreliable narrator inception, with most of them willing to outright make things up, and with zero indication of how or why people claim what they say/know..... AND an awful English translation on TOP of all of that (one that likes to throw in plot-changing words like "clone" in there randomly, purely for the sake of how cool the word sounds, I guess).

Basically, instead of the reveal of what happened making sense of every statement that was previously told to you, everything in the reveal just kind of overrides everything that was incompatible with it.

Which is a shame, because I really do like the story, the reveal, and the mystery that surrounds it the whole time.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I just hope the remake explains the plot better. I could tell you the plot to every other FF game I've played but not VII.

Over exploitation of resources is the main theme of the game.

The story is all over the place and not very good; people just love Sephiroth despite him being a boring badass and so much less fun than Kefka.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Sephiroth looks cool.

And the beginning of his whole arc - Shinra tower and Nibelheim, is cool.

The final battle, provided you don't nerf him with KotR or Omnislash, and the unloseable psychic battle, are pretty cool.

But that's about it...

Some things make sense, like why he killed Aeris and why he's able to manipulate Cloud.

But a lot doesn't, like how he's a human who was injected with Jenova cells in utero and somehow he can control and manipulate Jenova (the same Jenova that killed almost all of the ancients), or how he has such power over Cloud to the point that not only can he manipulate Cloud's memories...but somehow those of Tifa as well?


The story could use more exposition, I agree - I shouldn't have to play it thru 3 times and read wacky synopses to 'get it'.


But what really jams me up is the real time battles like FFXV.

What are they thinking, 'if we have on screen enemies and turn based battles less people will buy it!'?

Fact: The WRPG market is almost as saturated now as the JRPG market was in 2004, even more so if you consider 'open world games with RPG elements' (which every AAA game these days is) WRPGs.

Bitch, its got 'Final Fantasy VII' in the title, it'll do RDR2 numbers...and also splitting it into two games, again if RDR2 could do it in one disc, you can too. I understand the thinking here, 'if we split it into two games we make twice the money!'... What if they waffle the first game - and FFVII or not, look at Square-Enix's output in recent years - it's no longer an unfathomable possibility.

Whatevskis, like we see it before 2022 anyways...

 

[Shareefruck]

Over exploitation of resources is the main theme of the game.

The story is all over the place and not very good; people just love Sephiroth despite him being a boring badass and so much less fun than Kefka.

I like the story, but I agree that the way it's presented, with that localization, can be a mess to follow. If cleaned up and presented more artfully, it actually has more of a mysterious/abstract open to interpretation feel to it that I really enjoy.

I've always enjoyed what a deceptively small chunk of the story Sephiroth is actually involved in. He appears as this big mythical looming thing that's heavily alluded to, but it turns out that he factors into the story less than guys like Jenova and Hojo, who are kind of acting independently, doing the heavy lifting, and contributing in a more pure evil Kefka-like way.

It's a completely different approach, and there's no shame in being less of a pure villain than Kefka.

 

[Rebels57]

Over exploitation of resources is the main theme of the game.

The story is all over the place and not very good; people just love Sephiroth despite him being a boring badass and so much less fun than Kefka.

Awful take.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I like the story, but I agree that the way it's presented, with that localization, can be a mess to follow. If cleaned up and presented more artfully, it actually has more of a mysterious/abstract open to interpretation feel to it that I really enjoy.

I've always enjoyed what a deceptively small chunk of the story Sephiroth is actually involved in. He appears as this big mythical looming thing that's heavily alluded to, but it turns out that he factors into the story less than guys like Jenova and Hojo, who are kind of acting independently, doing the heavy lifting, and contributing in a more pure evil Kefka-like way.

It's a completely different approach, and there's no shame in being less of a pure villain than Kefka.

Maybe it was my younger self but I never felt anywhere the same animosity towards Sephiroth that I did Kefka and that is what I want out if my villains: I want to hate them. Sephiroth is just boring: yeah he kills Aerith but it was cold and passionless, a stark contrast from Kefka poisoning Cyan's family, killing Leo or disfiguring the planet.

I will give credit to having Sephiroth be diametrically opposed to Kefka but that was more interesting than fun. I need a villain I hate or fear, I just thought Sephiroth looked cool, I didn't care about him whatsoever.

 

[Shareefruck]

Maybe it was my younger self but I never felt anywhere the same animosity towards Sephiroth that I did Kefka and that is what I want out if my villains: I want to hate them. Sephiroth is just boring: yeah he kills Aerith but it was cold and passionless, a stark contrast from Kefka poisoning Cyan's family, killing Leo or disfiguring the planet.

I will give credit to having Sephiroth be diametrically opposed to Kefka but that was more interesting than fun. I need a villain I hate or fear, I just thought Sephiroth looked cool, I didn't care about him whatsoever.

I agree that he's more interesting than fun, but I disagree that villains need to be any one thing in particular.

Spoiler

Also, you may want to revisit the story if you think that Aeris was killed by Sephiroth.

It's actually heavily implied that it's Jenova (although who's manipulating who to do what is a bit ambiguous, which again, is an aspect that I liked).

From what I remember/interpreted, Sephiroth is only really active and moving the plot along in the flashback. After that, he's stuck in Northern Crater the whole time, arguably half dead and indirectly willing Jenova into reuniting where he is in order to complete his end goal (which is really completely impersonal relative to your party). Jenova is the one who is actively playing more of a villainous role throughout most of the game, taking advantage of the party's memories, toying with their psyche, and making things personal (killing Aeris) in order to manipulate the pieces.

When framed that way, I found the more sinister, supernatural dread pushing everything along pretty compelling, more-so than the personal revenge story side of it (which kind of turned out to not really be the point-- Killing Sephiroth ended up having more to do with Cloud getting rid of baggage that had a hold on him, than anything else, IMO).

It's less hate driven than the whole Kefka thing for sure, but I would argue that's because the threat/conflict isn't really meant to be that in the first place (only one minor, and kind of superficial aspect of it was).

 

[Do Make Say Think]

A good villain is one who makes the player emotionally invested in their defeat, how they go about making the player care doesn't really matter. You could feel conflicted/sympathy (Ardyn in FFXV) or hate (in the case of Kefka) or another emotion. Sephiroth does nothing except look cool.

I'm just talking conceptually, the execution is another matter entirely (since everything about the story telling in FFXV is awful despite the story being pretty good).

 

[Shareefruck]

A good villain is one who makes the player emotionally invested in their defeat, how they go about making the player care doesn't really matter. You could feel conflicted/sympathy (Ardyn in FFXV) or hate (in the case of Kefka) or another emotion. Sephiroth does nothing except look cool.

I'm just talking conceptually, the execution is another matter entirely (since everything about the story telling in FFXV is awful despite the story being pretty good).

I would argue that that's not really his purpose in this game, though. He's more of a tragic/lost-beyond-hope but personally removed, mythical lore-type character off in the distance that needs to be stopped, not because he's a maniacal spectre of evil that the player should hate/care about, but because of the implications to the planet. The game sufficiently builds and makes you care/feel invested about the planet/life in general (more-so than other games that instead rely on building hatred towards the villain, like FFVI) as well care about the sinister supernatural threat of Jenova and the hold she has on you. You're meant to feel somewhat intrigued and be in fearful awe of Sephiroth, as a figure (which I think the game does pull off), and he does have a clear presence, but not necessarily just straight up hate him and want to murder him or feel sympathy for him.

I've always viewed overcoming Sephiroth at the end of the game to be more of a symbolic idea than a personal one, and I think that final middle of nowhere in the darkness battle sequence is indicative of that-- It's more about slaying the personal demons that Sephiroth represents for Cloud than it is about getting payback, at that point.

Could the game be improved by making you more personally invested in him? I suppose... Maybe, maybe not (although it would have to all be done in the flashback)... but again, I don't really think that's the point.

Shinra, Hojo, and Jenova were always meant to be more present and despicable than Sephiroth was, and should sufficiently satisfy a lot of what you're talking about. I think the combination of the four (one corrupt, one deranged, one personal/pure evil, and one dispassionately/impersonally god-complexing his way into a catastrophic outcome) in addition to Cloud's own personal demons made for a much more multi-faceted experience/investment, personally (although Kefka alone being a singular straight-forward threat is just as effective).

 

[dma0034]

Kefka is extremely boring imo. Really his whole thing is just to be a mad clown. It's boring and uninspired. There is no back story to explain why he is the why he is, his whole narrative is driven just to cause chaos for really no explanation outside of oh... one day I'll have the powers of a God.

 

[Shareefruck]

Kefka is extremely boring imo. Really his whole thing is just to be a mad clown. It's boring and uninspired. There is no back story to explain why he is the why he is, his whole narrative is driven just to cause chaos for really no explanation outside of oh... one day I'll have the powers of a God.

I think it's implied somewhere in the game that the experiments that gave Kefka/Celes the ability to use magic is what drove him into becoming a mad freak.

 

[RandV]

Both Kefka and Sephiroth are great villains. I'm not that well versed in FFVII, but while Sephiroth is definitely a style over substance villain they do the style really well. Right from the start of the game where he's this ominous presence that you can feel but never see. Kefka is at first glance a side show mid-boss type character, who you grow to hate from the heinous acts he commits and becomes memorable when he wins half way through the game and becomes a mad god that destroys most of the world.

After these two Square has really struggled to get their FF villains right. Usually trying to hard to make another Sephiroth but never getting it quite right.

 

[Shareefruck]

Both Kefka and Sephiroth are great villains. I'm not that well versed in FFVII, but while Sephiroth is definitely a style over substance villain they do the style really well. Right from the start of the game where he's this ominous presence that you can feel but never see. Kefka is at first glance a side show mid-boss type character, who you grow to hate from the heinous acts he commits and becomes memorable when he wins half way through the game and becomes a mad god that destroys most of the world.

After these two Square has really struggled to get their FF villains right. Usually trying to hard to make another Sephiroth but never getting it quite right.

I would argue that this (and maybe the music) is the thing about FFVII that holds up best. Whether there's sufficient substance or not, the way his presence is hauntingly built up and hidden is perfect. There are arguably more weak points in the plot, writing, aesthetics, battle system, pacing, sound design, and lore than there is in that, IMO.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Kefka is extremely boring imo. Really his whole thing is just to be a mad clown. It's boring and uninspired. There is no back story to explain why he is the why he is, his whole narrative is driven just to cause chaos for really no explanation outside of oh... one day I'll have the powers of a God.

They explain in the game that infusion of magic (like they used on Celes) drove him mad.

Kefka rules because he wins.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I would argue that this (and maybe the music) is the thing about FFVII that holds up best. Whether there's sufficient substance or not, the way his presence is hauntingly built up and hidden is perfect. There are arguably more weak points in the plot, writing, aesthetics, battle system, pacing, sound design, and lore than there is in that, IMO.

Although my favorite music is actually from FFX, the music in FFVII does such a perfect job of capturing point in time emotion - the best in the series IMO. I wonder how much that plays into the love for FFVII that so many people have (including myself).

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The only reason FFVII is this loved is because it was the first really big JRPG.

As far as FFs go, it is pedestrian. Almost everyone I know who was into JRPGs before it came out does not think that highly of it.

 

[Gardner McKay]

The only reason FFVII is this loved is because it was the first really big JRPG.

As far as FFs go, it is pedestrian. Almost everyone I know who was into JRPGs before it came out does not think that highly of it.

I don't know how to say this but... I don't think that is a good representation of the sentiment of the general gaming population.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't know how to say this but... I don't think that is a good representation of the sentiment of the general gaming population.

Agreed, I'm part of the old school. I learned English by playing Final Fantasy 1 on NES, t'was brutal

The "current" generation of gamers would have been at the perfect age to be utterly blown away by FFVII. That being said, my point still stands, in my group of friends back in 1997, we were all in agreement that FFVII wasn't that great. It was good, we all enjoyed it; but compared to Chrono Trigger or FFVI? Yeah, not a chance.

Different strokes for different folks. It is all good. One day, probably not that far off (hell we might already be there!!), people will consider FFX the best one and, well... FFX is garbage if you ask me.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Agreed, I'm part of the old school. I learned English by playing Final Fantasy 1 on NES, t'was brutal

The "current" generation of gamers would have been at the perfect age to be utterly blown away by FFVII. That being said, my point still stands, in my group of friends back in 1997, we were all in agreement that FFVII wasn't that great. It was good, we all enjoyed it; but compared to Chrono Trigger or FFVI? Yeah, not a chance.

Different strokes for different folks. It is all good. One day, probably not that far off (hell we might already be there!!), people will consider FFX the best one and, well... FFX is garbage if you ask me.

Yeah see I was only 10 or so when FFVII was released. I had played other JRPG's before, such as Lufia 2, Chrono Trigger, etc. But I see where you're coming from.

I will also disagree on FFX, well kind of. I think the version that was released in the US at the time was garbage. It lacked post game content for me and that was why I was never a big fan of FFX, until the remaster. Although, the music will always be my favorite of any FF game.

 

[Shareefruck]

Sure, but some of the older titles being better (which I agree with) doesn't suggest that it's anything close to pedestrian. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I personally think that its broad strokes focal points are still inspired and are arguably more ripe for potential greatness if handled properly than most other games in its genre (of course, that potential is likely never going to be fully realized, and certainly not by Square Enix).

I agree that it's a deeply flawed game that is distractingly and outright awful in many areas (which would understandably be a huge deal-breaker for a lot of people) and not even a fraction as fully realized, tight, tasteful, and expertly executed as older games such as FFIV, FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, and arguably even games like Terranigma. I think it has the basic ingredients to be, though, and I do think that certain things about it were handled excellently, such as Sephiroth's buildup and presence throughout the game. I don't agree that this should be lost sight of or downplayed simply because there's a hoard of obnoxious fans who think it's some sort of a untouchable masterpiece due to childhood attachment.

It being the first big JRPG may be the only reason it's AS widely beloved as it is, but there's still plenty to justifiably love about the game.

Although my favorite music is actually from FFX, the music in FFVII does such a perfect job of capturing point in time emotion - the best in the series IMO. I wonder how much that plays into the love for FFVII that so many people have (including myself).

I find VII's music the most consistently catchy and easily stuck in your head, and everything's very appropriately used in the context of the game, but I'm not sure I like it as much as the others as well.

 

[EpochLink]

I played FF 6 before FF 7, although I beat both of them I refuse to play it again.
If it was my 12-13 year old self sure but I have no time for that.