Final Fantasy VII Remake - OFFICIALLY RELEASED!! (No Spoilers)

[Shareefruck]

I mean, sure, at the end of the day these are video games, not virtual worlds. I'm not sure what you are arguing: I just said that having a world map ala 2D JRPGs doesn't make sense since we now have much better ways to show scale.

Where is the confusion or where is the discussion going off track? I'm just arguing that world maps use symbols and abstractions to convey scale in a way that large open world games that bypass them still don't sufficiently replace. That conveyance is something valuable that has been sacrificed for the sake of moment-to-moment realism and seamless transitions. It still makes plenty of sense to include them. This is a directly relevant disagreement with your sentiment.

The only thing that is lost by the abstraction of world maps is realism, which is far less important than more effectively conveyed ideas (like the feeling of distance traveled, story-wise), in my opinion. As you say, video games should not be virtual worlds.

It's just like how a movie that is shot in a single take is inherently going to be more limited in epic scale than a movie that takes advantage of abstract ideas conveyed by edits, transitions, and how scenes are put together, even if the movie shot in a single take has a significantly longer runtime and feels more like a simulation of reality.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Where is the confusion or where is the discussion going off track? I'm just arguing that world maps use symbols and abstractions to convey scale in a way that large open world games that bypass them still don't sufficiently replace. That conveyance is something valuable that has been sacrificed for the sake of moment-to-moment realism and seamless transitions. It still makes plenty of sense to include them. This is a directly relevant disagreement with your sentiment.

The only thing that is lost by the abstraction of world maps is realism, which is far less important than more effectively conveyed ideas (like the feeling of distance traveled, story-wise), in my opinion. As you say, video games should not be virtual worlds.

It's just like how a movie that is shot in a single take is inherently going to be more limited in epic scale than a movie that takes advantage of abstract ideas conveyed by edits, transitions, and how scenes are put together, even if the movie shot in a single take has a significantly longer runtime and feels more like a simulation of reality.

But the only reason maps used to have symbols or rely on abstractions was technical limitations.

If you think the worlds of FFVI or Chrono Trigger are "better/more immersive/more epic" than the one in BotW then I got nothing except that your nostalgia goggles might need some cleaning.

 

[Shareefruck]

But the only reason maps used to have symbols or rely on abstractions was technical limitations.

If you think the worlds of FFVI or Chrono Trigger are "better/more immersive/more epic" than the one in BotW then I got nothing except that your nostalgia goggles might need some cleaning.

It's not really about those things, though it's about conveyance of ideas and concepts. I would definitely say that the world map of FFVII conveys more distance than the Breath of the Wild map, story-wise, despite being technologically inferior and significantly less rich and detailed in every way. This is because world maps did not only exist because of technical limitations, they also existed for practical conceptual limitations (that realistically, may always exist) in translating the unmanageable, impossible-to-design size of the real world into a video-game world without losing the broader idea or the broader feeling of the idea. I mean, that's what a symbols are for.

You can dismiss anything you don't agree with or relate with as nostalgia just as you can with recency bias. I think the reasons I'm giving are pretty logical rather than emotional and don't really warrant that accusation. I also think nostalgia is kind of stupid and should be resisted in general (I don't have any interest in childhood sentimentality factoring into my values or preferences and dislike the idea in principle), so I resent the implication.

Edit: Here's a pretty good video that communicates a similar point more eloquently than I can, that actually brings up a better counter-point about other 3D (abstraction/symbol-based) alternatives to open worlds beyond just world maps. So maybe something like those can be considered, but I don't think the Breath of the Wild way of doing it comes close to addressing the problem I'm bringing up, personally.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Latest Square Enix Financials Suggest FFVII Remake and Avengers Have Been Delayed from FY20 to FY21

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Given that after 4 years of nothing we've only finally seen the beginning of the game I'm not really optimistic the entire package is going to be out before 2025.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Given that after 4 years of nothing we've only finally seen the beginning of the game I'm not really optimistic the entire package is going to be out before 2025.

By entire package, I presume you mean both games? Either way, I doubt it. You can't have an episodic game go five years in between episodes. SE has taken some hits lately and I doubt they want/can afford to every major game to have a 8-10 year development cycle. Also, if the first game ends outside of Midgar, in theory they would already have a decent amount of work done on the rest of the game.

I think part two will be released 2 years after the part one.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

By entire package, I presume you mean both games? Either way, I doubt it. You can't have an episodic game go five years in between episodes. SE has taken some hits lately and I doubt they want/can afford to every major game to have a 8-10 year development cycle. Also, if the first game ends outside of Midgar, in theory they would already have a decent amount of work done on the rest of the game.

I think part two will be released 2 years after the part one.

Both? I know this was episodic but is there only 2 episodes?

Either way it's just hard after all this time to believe this thing is going to be completed in good time.

Should've remade VI, or IV (again), but that's just me.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Both? I know this was episodic but is there only 2 episodes?

Either way it's just hard after all this time to believe this thing is going to be completed in good time.

Should've remade VI, or IV (again), but that's just me.

Two Episodes has been the speculation for a little while. If each episode is going to be a full game, FF VII isn't big enough to do three full episodes, unless they add a ton of artificial content, which I would completely agree with @Shareefruck would be a massive mistake.

Define good time. It has been 4 years since they announced the remake. I presume they had been working on it, even minimally, for a year before that. That would mean we are already 5 years in. Dropping the first episode in 2019/2020/2021 and not completing the second episode until 2025 would be a f*** up of epic proportions, even for Square Enix.

From a business standpoint it also makes little sense. The longer it takes them to finish the second episode the more likely they see diminished financial returns. For a company as business driven as SE, I would presume they sooner put out a half assed second episode than let that happen. If the second episode isn't a hit, then you not only are you missing out on game sales revenue, you also are missing out on DLC revenue as you have a hardcore fanbase that you could milk the shit out of with some DLC.

I can tell you if it took 5+ years for Endgame to come out after Infinity War, I would not give a crap and I am a huge Marvel Fanboy.

 

[Gardner McKay]

From my post in another thread... I think we are looking at a November 2020 release date for FF7 Remake part 1.

I told you, SE’s word means less than a six year old’s. They’re an atrocious company.

What a bummer.

November 2020.

Juicy PS5 and Xbox Two info to be presented at E3 2019 product showcase

PlayStation gamers currently look set to receive the PS5 in November 2020, so some more information about the console's AMD hardware, which was reportedly in part leaked recently by an insider who infiltrated an official Sony meeting, would be a welcome boon, and especially so in light of Sony itself not officially attending E3 this year.

Combine that with SE pushing back their big revenue increase to FQ3 of next year...

What better way to sell games/consoles than do a PS5 launch bundle with FF7 remake.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

From my post in another thread... I think we are looking at a November 2020 release date for FF7 Remake part 1.

I don't think they will wait till the PS5 comes out because I don't think that was ever the plan. Still think we see Part 1 for the holidays this year. Can't see them going all out at E3 for it to still be almost a year and a half away. But what do I know

edit - nevermind just saw the previous post you posted...yea sounds like 2020 now...if it got delayed might as well release it when the ps5 comes out.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't think they will wait till the PS5 comes out because I don't think that was ever the plan. Still think we see Part 1 for the holidays this year. Can't see them going all out at E3 for it to still be almost a year and a half away. But what do I know

edit - nevermind just saw the previous post you posted...yea sounds like 2020 now...if it got delayed might as well release it when the ps5 comes out.

I don't think that was the plan either. If you watch the original video from E3 2015, the ending says "play it first on PS4". This tells me they had no idea how long it was going to take them to develop and that the PS5 wasn't even close to being on their radar then (and why would it be, we were still in the first half of the PS4 life cycle).

I wonder when they found out about PS5 and how much work it really would be to move everything over to development for that system. It would make sense given the drastic shift in SE financials in a short time, with the PS5 release being right in the middle of their original financials release and their updated financials release.

 

[GreytWun]

Hopefully they scrap the episode idea. I feel like we'll be waiting another 10 years for the whole thing to be released if they do that.

Ahhh yes. I’m still waiting for the day Half Life 2 episode 3 releases. Pipe dream I know.

 

[Shareefruck]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but story-wise, I actually do feel like that plot could possible lend itself to a trilogy better than ALL of that being crammed into a single game. It feels cleaner and less convoluted that way, to me.

Geeky armchair speculation about ideal story structure/creative decisions, anyone? Looked at the game structure and tried to work something out/decide what I'd want.

Spoiler

1st Game:

Basic structure: Start with bombing Missions -> Cross Dressing -> Pillar Comes Down -> Shinra HQ -> Jenova escapes + President dead -> Rufus final boss -> Escape from Shinra HQ -> Kalm flashback & Sephiroth reveal (re-order this/make this happen inside of Midgar or something) -> End on flashback-Sephiroth going nuts & party exiting the gates to the open world

* First game is completely linear
* Don't show any visual hint of Sephiroth until the Flashback (unlike the trailer suggests)
* Don't randomly pull Rufus out of nowhere at the end like they do in the game. Rufus should be introduced and appear early in scenes with President Shinra, be developed but seem less important, and the passing of power at the end should feel more like Gestahl -> Kefka, with Rufus being the final boss of this game
* Maybe consider doing the flashbacks while they're in the Shinra cell to avoid the Kalm placement awkwardness? Not sure if that works or not
* This game primarily revolves around Mako energy & Shinra

2nd Game:

Basic Structure: Start with Midgar Zolom -> Junon Harbour -> Corel/Gold Saucer -> Cosmo Canyon -> Nibelheim -> Temple/City of the Ancients + Aeris death -> Professor Gast flashbacks at Icicle Inn -> Northern Crater -> You haven't actually been following Sephiroth reveal + Jenova-Death final boss -> Climax on real Sephiroth reveal + Black Materia/Cloud going nuts + Weapons unleashed -> End on Tifa's internal monologue/early Midgar flashback

* Trilogies usually work well when the middle entry ends on a down note with everything in disarray and all hope lost.
* Whatever you do, don't directly call Cloud a "clone" and avoid that unnecessary confusion. Leave it open to that interpretation but still explained in a way that makes sense when the truth is revealed later. Don't just make it like Sephiroth had no idea what the **** he was talking about.
* This game primarily revolves around The Lifestream, The Ancients, & Jenova

3rd Game:

Basic Structure: Start with Meteor reveal + escape from Junon -> Sidequests (Wutai: Corneo & Turks send-off/Lucrecia's Cave: Vincent & Hojo flashback) -> Huge Materia -> Gelnika -> Lost in the Lifestream -> Cloud returns -> Shinra Mansion Flashback -> Key to the Ancients -> Return to Midgar -> Hojo Sub-Boss -> Northern Crater -> Jenova + Sephiroth final boss -> Keep the ending sequence pretty much the same but better written

* Game doesn't have Cloud until the end
* Might as well make Vincent a required character and that Lucrecia scene part of the main story
* Leave humanity's outcome/judgement ambiguous instead of hinting any nonsensical spin-off/sequel content
* This game primarily revolves around Cloud, Hojo, Sephiroth & Holy/Meteor

I think that actually potentially works out pretty well, structurally. Not that I'm expecting anything like that, of course.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Final Fantasy 7 Remake Demo Reportedly Developed and Playable


Released after E3? If that's the case I'm going to start thinking Dec is the release again for part 1. E3 will be very telling!

 

[KapG]

Both? I know this was episodic but is there only 2 episodes?

Either way it's just hard after all this time to believe this thing is going to be completed in good time.

Should've remade VI, or IV (again), but that's just me.

Should have remade TACTICS.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Final Fantasy 7 Remake Demo Reportedly Developed and Playable


Released after E3? If that's the case I'm going to start thinking Dec is the release again for part 1. E3 will be very telling!

It would be awesome if they make it a public demo, like they used to in the old days.

Also, for those worried about combat being just live FFXV, This video does an amazing job of explaining why that is almost certainly to NOT be the case.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I've seen this info get reported a few different places. If true, some of it is absolutely amazing news and some of it is pretty cool. I've only posted a few of the bullet points here.

Final Fantasy VII Remake Demo To Launch Soon; Game Split In Two Parts

Game is in fact 2 parts. Part 1 ends exactly as Aerith is let down into the water after her death and a fade to black.

-Over-world map is almost seamless. There are some “zones.” There will be roads and methods of transportation. It is open world. Vehicles like the Tiny Bronco work almost exactly the same only being able to go in lighter water. There will be items available occasionally on the field. Chocobos will of course be obtainable after the farm.

-They have really made an effort to make each town feel lived in, and feel like there is a reason why each place is like the way it is. Each town is very unique from the last. Cosmo Canyon and its occasional dust storms are a stark contrast to the streets of Midgar. Upper Junon feels very much more like a military installation than Midgar as well.

-Shin-ra HQ wont have quite as many floors to explore but MORE to do on the floors you do go to so it still feels like your fighting through a lot to get to the top.

-Golden Saucer will have some games that are not playable(yet) because they are essentially replaying a part of a later story mission. Some will be playable right when you arrive. They want it to feel more grand and provide a break from the main story beats while still eventually having to incorporate the story into it later.

-Red XIII has clones Cobalt XIV and Indigo XV you must fight before he joins your party in Shin-ra HQ

I think the Red XIII clones are interesting. Cobalt XIV and Indigo XV were slated to be a part of the original game.

 

[Shareefruck]

Should have remade TACTICS.

Not exactly concrete news, but from Yasumi Matsuno:

Rather than looking back at the past, I’m the kind of person who loves trying out new things. But when you reach my age, you start having thoughts like “How much time do I have left to keep making games?”. And I’m not talking about retirement, I’m talking about death. Recently, I’ve been to more funerals than weddings, and it made me aware of how limited our time is. On places like Twitter, fans sometimes send me messages like “I really wish you’d make a new Ogre or FFT!!”. When I see messages like this, a part of me thinks “I probably need to make one before I die”.​

New Final Fantasy Tactics & Ogre Battle Games Might Be Coming In The Future

 

[KapG]

Not exactly concrete news, but from Yasumi Matsuno:

New Final Fantasy Tactics & Ogre Battle Games Might Be Coming In The Future

I don’t want to get my hopes up....but yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssss

 

[Suxnet]

I remember when I beat FFT back in the day I got caught off guard and almost cried when it showed "Congratulations! This game is complete!" instead of "Congratulations! This battle is complete!"

Instead of remakes and sequels they need to invest in technology that can make people forget experiences.

 

[The Nemesis]

I don’t want to get my hopes up....but yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssss

I'm afraid. Final Fantasy Tactics on the PS1 was fantastic. Tactics Advance with its asinine "laws" system was infuriating. I don't want random nonsense restrictions on how battles have to go. If it makes sense within the context of the story, fine. But otherwise I want the freedom to craft my army and approach the battle on my own terms.

 

[ArchAngel55]

I remember when I beat FFT back in the day I got caught off guard and almost cried when it showed "Congratulations! This game is complete!" instead of "Congratulations! This battle is complete!"

Instead of remakes and sequels they need to invest in technology that can make people forget experiences.

Alcohol or drugs.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

This the FF7 remake thread or Tactics?

 

[Suxnet]

I've come to accept that remakes of classics should not be done. It's nice to dream about, but development teams change, ideas change, gaming trends change. FFT and FF7 were released over 20 years ago. They wont have the same magic anymore.

 

[Shareefruck]

Personally, I don't give a flying **** about changing gaming trends and attitudes. A good game is a good game whether it's released over 20 years ago or released now. Nostalgia is something that you can see through quite easily (and that type of sentimentality is completely worthless to me anyways), and even when you remove it from the equation, there is still plenty of value and magic leftover in older things that only comes along periodically throughout history, despite any flaws and quality of life issues that can (and ideally should) be corrected. I don't buy this "standards based on the context of their time" way of looking at things whatsoever. I evaluate old games with the exact same scale I use for new games, and the best ones come out of that process just fine, the same way they would if they were released today without the same cultural impact.

FFVII is a deeply flawed game with uncommonly inspired core bullet-points that hold everything together. It was both of those things even back when those flaws were considered the accepted best-in-class norms at the time, and it's equally still both of those things now that they no longer are.