IGN proving how dumb their 10 point review scale is. Im listening to the guy who did their review on a podcast and it feels like hes already backtracking his review score from the initial backlash.
"Its an 8 on the new scale, but under the old scale it would be a high 8"
I generally like their reviews, but I think they blew this one. Not as badly as their Doom 2016 (which they essentially fired the review guy over).
IGN proving how dumb their 10 point review scale is. Im listening to the guy who did their review on a podcast and it feels like he already backtracking his review score from the initial backlash.
"Its an 8 on the new scale, but under the old scale it would be a high 8"
I generally like their reviews, but I think they blew this one. Not as badly as their Doom 2016 (which they pretty fired the review guy over).
It reminds me of the Transistor review on Gamespot a few years ago. Gave it an 8/10 but displayed no negatives and if you read the review, there was nothing negative spoken about it. So why give it an 8? Still remember the 7.8 Too Much Water bullshit .
Another thing that is entirely new that I did love was the scene with
The Turks in the Shinra building.
Felt totally organic and perfectly encapsulates what they're all about and their different degrees of moral ambivalence.
I think for me, it just comes down to being put off by the fact that something reeks of "this manipulative crap always works on those suckers, hook line and sinker." So something like the Wilhelm scream doesn't bother me nearly as much as this stuff.
If something is super cheesy but feels like an authentic and personalized creative choice that accomplishes something, I'm happy to go along with the silliness and find plausibility/realism/continuity kind of overrated. Both Shinra Middle Manager encounters with Barrett were just so over the top but perfect, and the fact that Cloud can fall a million stories without dying really doesn't matter to me.
That makes sense. I guess I should be more upset when a game developer insults my intelligence than when they pull me out of their narrative, but I've been story-focused for most of my life, so I might be extra sensitive to things that ruin immersion.
I kind of agree on your second point. Plausibility and realism are thrown out the window when the story takes place in a fictional world like Midgar, or any of the other worlds in a FF game. Continuity, though, is always important to me. You can't deus ex machina yourself into and out of situations and expect a person to accept those situations as being good. Same with coincidence - you can only use coincidence to get into conflict, not to get out of conflict. There are rules to writing, even if they're ignored somewhat frequently.
Our conversation has yet again strayed away from the Remake, though. Getting back to it, after sleeping on it I think I would give Remake a score of 8.75/10. It does so many things right, but it moderately misses the mark when it comes to some important things. What it does right vastly outweighs the negatives, though. It's still a damn fine game that anyone with any interest in RPGs should play. The characters, the setting, and the combat are all tip-top notch.
Oh, and I just remembered another scene of
someone being pulled up off a ledge. Cloud pulls Tifa up to him after the Turks blow up the staircase during the plate collapse scene.
So that's four instances of the same cliche used in this one game. Four that I can remember, at least.
That makes sense. I guess I should be more upset when a game developer insults my intelligence than when they pull me out of their narrative, but I've been story-focused for most of my life, so I might be extra sensitive to things that ruin immersion.
I kind of agree on your second point. Plausibility and realism are thrown out the window when . Continuity, though, is always important to me. You can't deus ex machina yourself into and out of situations and expect a person to accept those situations as being good. Same with coincidence - you can only use coincidence to get into conflict, not to get out of conflict. There are rules to writing, even if they're ignored somewhat frequently.
Our conversation has yet again strayed away from the Remake, though. Getting back to it, after sleeping on it I think I would give Remake a score of 8.75/10. It does so many things right, but it moderately misses the mark when it comes to some important things. What it does right vastly outweighs the negatives, though. It's still a damn fine game that anyone with any interest in RPGs should play. The characters, the setting, and the combat are all tip-top notch.
Oh, and I just remembered another scene of
someone being pulled up off a ledge. Cloud pulls Tifa up to him after the Turks blow up the staircase during the plate collapse scene.
So that's four instances of the same cliche used in this one game. Four that I can remember, at least.
Deus Ex Machinas and coincidences kind of have nothing to do with continuity though, they have to do with thoughtfulness-- which I agree is always important. For example,
Barrett getting stabbed and instantly revived
is perfectly consistent with the world that this game setup, continuity-wise, but that doesn't make it feel any less cheap and stupid.
There are pieces of media that deliberately give the middle finger to continuity (like the show, Louie, for example), just to make a point, that I think work brilliantly and that never loses its effectiveness or emotional weight because the choices are always thoughtful, well placed, and purposeful. It's just a matter of how well something is done.
On the last point, on top of that, there were also several examples (at least three or four) where Tifa and Aerith have a hollow "save each other from danger" moment solely for the purpose of "Bonds!" that made me groan and that I think falls under the exact same category. Also, don't forget, the exact dramatically-pulled-up-off-a-ledge moment happens with Cloud being pulled up by Tifa/Aerith in the sewers as well. They did something similar for just about every permutation of the four characters, really.
Deus Ex Machinas and coincidences kind of have nothing to do with continuity though, they have to do with thoughtfulness-- which I agree is always important. For example,
Barrett getting stabbed and instantly revived
is perfectly consistent with the world that this game setup, continuity-wise, but that doesn't make it feel any less cheap and stupid.
There are pieces of media that deliberately give the middle finger to continuity (like the show, Louie, for example), just to make a point, that I think work brilliantly and that never loses its effectiveness or emotional weight because the choices are always thoughtful, well placed, and purposeful. It's just a matter of how well something is done.
On the last point, on top of that, there were also several examples (at least three or four) where Tifa and Aerith have a hollow "save each other from danger" moment solely for the purpose of "Bonds!" that made me groan and that I think falls under the exact same category. Also, don't forget, the exact dramatically-pulled-up-off-a-ledge moment happens with Cloud being pulled up by Tifa/Aerith in the sewers as well. They did something similar for just about every permutation of the four characters, really.
What is your definition of continuity? I must be confusing it with consistency. While the rules in the world of FFVII Remake show continuity, I would say their adherence to the rules of writing are not consistent.
I think my issue with them re-using the same cliches throughout the game for all of the characters is that it loses its effectiveness exponentially after each time it happens. I truly enjoyed the characters, but being force-fed the idea that they're all friends and brothers-in-arms through those moments made me think less of the bonds between them, not more. It'd be more impactful in the story if those bonds were broken and the relationship had to be remedied as opposed to everyone getting along perfectly and everyone protecting each other perfectly.
What is your definition of continuity? I must be confusing it with consistency. While the rules in the world of FFVII Remake show continuity, I would say their adherence to the rules of writing are not consistent.
I think my issue with them re-using the same cliches throughout the game for all of the characters is that it loses its effectiveness exponentially after each time it happens. I truly enjoyed the characters, but being force-fed the idea that they're all friends and brothers-in-arms through those moments made me think less of the bonds between them, not more. It'd be more impactful in the story if those bonds were broken and the relationship had to be remedied as opposed to everyone getting along perfectly and everyone protecting each other perfectly.
I agree with all of those specific examples being bad.
I'm not saying the game actually is consistent-- it clearly isn't-- I'm saying that inconsistency isn't really the crux of why a lot of those choices happen to be bad-- the fact that they're uninspired contrivances that serve a really cheap purpose is. There can be moments with strong continuity that are no less awful because they're still uninspired contrivances even if they're consistent and explainable, and there can also be moments with non-existent narrative continuity that are inspired, powerful, and perfectly considered.
I'd argue that it basically works the same way realism does-- lack of realism often happens to coincide with laziness an awful lot of the time, but it shouldn't be mistaken for the same thing or necessarily be viewed as an inherent bad, in my opinion.
Really basic example:
Jessie dies by being blown up by her own bomb. If hypothetically, Jessie were a member of your party earlier in the game and tanked grenade attacks like they were nothing, that would be broken continuity, but it wouldn't cheapen the impact of her death (which still has all of the same thematic relevance, purpose and consideration), IMO, even though lots of people would (in my view, wrongfully) poke fun at that as if that continuity detail were an actual flaw.
Opposite example:
The saving-Cloud-from-falling-off-a-ledge trope is dumb because of how it's used (everything we discussed earlier), not because of the continuity problem that a lot of people instead point out-- That he can survive ludicrously high falls without any damage in other scenes. If you fixed that so that he was in actual danger of dying from the fall, those ledge scenes would still be exactly as badly written as they are now.
Love seeing this. Guys who made this game deserve everything for putting out such an outstanding game. Also great news for us because that means Square will not be afraid to spend the money to make sure the 2nd game will be just as good as the first.
I'm on chapter 9 and currently level 42
Taking time grinding.. those that beat the game, over kill?
I feel like I could enjoy the gameplay more knowing I'm less likely to get my ass kicked lol
I agree with all of those specific examples being bad.
I'm not saying the game actually is consistent-- it clearly isn't-- I'm saying that inconsistency isn't really the crux of why a lot of those choices happen to be bad-- the fact that they're uninspired contrivances that serve a really cheap purpose is. There can be moments with strong continuity that are no less awful because they're still uninspired contrivances even if they're consistent and explainable, and there can also be moments with non-existent narrative continuity that are inspired, powerful, and perfectly considered.
I'd argue that it basically works the same way realism does-- lack of realism often happens to coincide with laziness an awful lot of the time, but it shouldn't be mistaken for the same thing or necessarily be viewed as an inherent bad, in my opinion.
Really basic example:
Jessie dies by being blown up by her own bomb. If hypothetically, Jessie were a member of your party earlier in the game and tanked grenade attacks like they were nothing, that would be broken continuity, but it wouldn't cheapen the impact of her death (which still has all of the same thematic relevance, purpose and consideration), IMO, even though lots of people would (in my view, wrongfully) poke fun at that as if that continuity detail were an actual flaw.
Opposite example:
The saving-Cloud-from-falling-off-a-ledge trope is dumb because of how it's used (everything we discussed earlier), not because of the continuity problem that a lot of people instead point out-- That he can survive ludicrously high falls without any damage in other scenes. If you fixed that so that he was in actual danger of dying from the fall, those ledge scenes would still be exactly as badly written as they are now.
Gotcha, that makes sense now. Basically it all comes down to cheap thrills and big set pieces being the driving force behind a lot of the plot elements than anything else, which I can agree with. I'd still argue that the characterization is handled well, minus the relationships between some of the characters, and that the characters push the plot forward more than the plot pushes the characters forward. Still, there are some definite flaws with the game that I hope can get cleaned up in the next one, even though I'm not that hopeful in that being the case due to Square's recent track record. And Nomura. And Nojima. But I digress.
I'm on chapter 9 and currently level 42
Taking time grinding.. those that beat the game, over kill?
I feel like I could enjoy the gameplay more knowing I'm less likely to get my ass kicked lol
Gotcha, that makes sense now. Basically it all comes down to cheap thrills and big set pieces being the driving force behind a lot of the plot elements than anything else, which I can agree with. I'd still argue that the characterization is handled well, minus the relationships between some of the characters, and that the characters push the plot forward more than the plot pushes the characters forward. Still, there are some definite flaws with the game that I hope can get cleaned up in the next one, even though I'm not that hopeful in that being the case due to Square's recent track record. And Nomura. And Nojima. But I digress.
Completely agreed. The characterizations of the main cast + Avalanche + pretty much all of the Shinra heads are absolutely spot on, and probably express the original characters more clearly and eloquently than the original does (even though all of the same seeds were still there in the OG version-- you just had to read between the lines and draw a lot from a few succinct lines, and in some cases you don't realize a lot of it until later in the game). The only fully new and notable character trait I can think of is Jessie's forwardness which did not exist at all before and works excellently in this game (that and I guess Biggs' weird shoe-horned "worrying about details" trait, which I didn't find convincing at all)-- I interpreted it more as a shy schoolgirl crush on Cloud thing in the original, which is not the case at all here. I think they kind of overdid the Aerith/Tifa friendship as well, I guess in attempt to make the game feel less male-targeted.
Sephiroth is probably the sole exception and is very poorly characterized and cheapened for the sake of hollow fan service, though-- which is a shame because his build-up was one of my favorite things about the original game.
Plotwise, I would say they nail just about everything up to the beginning of Shinra HQ, but it suddenly gets very flimsy after that.
I mostly just despise the thematic statement the game concludes with, which really comes close to souring everything else and implications moving forward for me.
I'm on chapter 9 and currently level 42
Taking time grinding.. those that beat the game, over kill?
I feel like I could enjoy the gameplay more knowing I'm less likely to get my ass kicked lol
I'm on chapter 9 and currently level 42
Taking time grinding.. those that beat the game, over kill?
I feel like I could enjoy the gameplay more knowing I'm less likely to get my ass kicked lol
The colosium.
Due to my situation at home I only play about 2 hours each night, so I have just been doing this the last few days. Each 5 rounds gets ya 2302 exp points,
Oh I also have beers and do video chats during the fights so I'm not totally bored
I'm on chapter 9 and currently level 42
Taking time grinding.. those that beat the game, over kill?
I feel like I could enjoy the gameplay more knowing I'm less likely to get my ass kicked lol
Its weird. My playtime was 45 hours. Ive seen playtimes as low as 32 hours. I cant figure out how they were 13 hours faster then me. Unless they did none of the sidequests?
Its weird. My playtime was 45 hours. Ive seen playtimes as low as 32 hours. I cant figure out how they were 13 hours faster then me. Unless they did none of the sidequests?
Fair enough.
My brother beat the game in 96 hours (abut a week at all 100%)
No idea how he did it with a wife that works not at home and has 2 kids ( 6 and 3) and he apparently works from home too...
My minor petty quibble is the motion capture. Not that is isn't very fluid and the animations look good.
Its the overly dramatic hand movements and head nods. It's really Japanese and obviously not the only game that does it, but the poses and hand clutching just irked me.
Tifa making Cloud a drink just looked so silly to me, but not in a fun way.
Idk its silly, and maybe just means I am getting too old for anime anesthetics.
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