- May 3, 2021
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The Canucks are guaranteed to not win the Cup next year. You can all just take a year off of posting. I promise that the conversation will be the same 365 days from now.
Who cares about the Cup? At this point, starved Canuck fans would even settle for a couple of playoff games at Rogers Arena.The Canucks are guaranteed to not win the Cup next year. You can all just take a year off of posting. I promise that the conversation will be the same 365 days from now.
Again I hope your right, I don't think you are though.You’re looking at extreme examples without context. OEL was signed as a star. So was Jones, whether he is or not. Nurse signed after a 7th place Norris finish.
This past offseason we saw Weegar sign for 8 years at 6.25, Sanheim sign for the same deal as Weegar, Cernak sign for 8 at 5.2, and Sergachev sign for 8 at 8 and Sergachev was widely seen as paying for the future. We also saw Lindholm sign for 8 years at 6.5 in March last year.
Hronek is a talented player but doesn’t have the track record of any of them save Sanheim. I think it’s far more likely his cap hit starts with a 6 than a 7
This is so awful...Who cares about the Cup? At this point, starved Canuck fans would even settle for a couple of playoff games at Rogers Arena.
If the Kraken can do it--why not the Canucks?
No way, I mean we (somehow...) will make a bunch of trades and get out of cap hell, apparently thinking otherwise is hyperbole (even though we've heard this crap for years, and history is in fact a thing), so many incoming trades even though we couldn't trade any of these players during the year, or last off season, they will be easy to move now, somehow, because...........The Canucks are guaranteed to not win the Cup next year. You can all just take a year off of posting. I promise that the conversation will be the same 365 days from now.
You're trying to insult me without quoting me. This reminds me so much of this:No way, I mean we (somehow...) will make a bunch of trades and get out of cap hell, apparently thinking otherwise is hyperbole (even though we've heard this crap for years, and history is in fact a thing), so many incoming trades even though we couldn't trade any of these players during the year, or last off season, they will be easy to move now, somehow, because...........
Oh, and all of the players who suddenly emerged at the end of the year (during garbage time, against non playoff teams) will absolutely continue their up ward trajectory, because why wouldn't they?
Even Hirose, I mean he proved in 7 games (in garbage time against non playoff teams) that he will be an NHL dman, or, at the very least be the best dman on the AHL club, somehow, in 7 games.
Oh and Hronek is a top 4 dman (or even top pairing dman depending on who you talk to on here), he's underrated defensively (somehow), looks like the best shot we have on the blue line but won't get a big raise, somehow, saying otherwise is fear mongering.......
Oh and it's a guarantee that we won't finish 22nd OA next year, because finishing a little bit higher doesn't mean we're a mediocre team or anything......
Let's not forget either that anything but blind devotion to this ("new and improved") management means you want to rebuild forever.....now that's my favourite......
and what the rest of us are saying is that, by being a bubble team next year, you are locking us in as a bubble team for the next 4-5 years. Because we dont just look at next year, throw our hands up and say "we will somehow get out of cap hell without incurring long term pain, loss of picks, loss of futures". That permanent loss is pick 17 and 40 in this especially deep draft. The only argument against that is assuming that EP will eave if that is the case..... which is possible, but a hypothetical that just leads nowhere.History is a thing... but Bennings history in what can be done will be done is useless.
History is a thing Hronek was that top pairing 3/4 dman this season for the wings.
No one here has said we are anything more than a bubble team. We are saying you need to get there to improve to be a contender. You don't go from terrible to sudden cup contenders.
No one is saying blind faith, but it is asinine to assume any management team is as bad as Benning, and will be making the same errors he did.
History is a thing... but Bennings history in what can be done will be done is useless.
History is a thing Hronek was that top pairing 3/4 dman this season for the wings.
No one here has said we are anything more than a bubble team. We are saying you need to get there to improve to be a contender. You don't go from terrible to sudden cup contenders.
No one is saying blind faith, but it is asinine to assume any management team is as bad as Benning, and will be making the same errors he did.
Who cares about the Cup? At this point, starved Canuck fans would even settle for a couple of playoff games at Rogers Arena.
If the Kraken can do it--why not the Canucks?
and what the rest of us are saying is that, by being a bubble team next year, you are locking us in as a bubble team for the next 4-5 years. Because we dont just look at next year, throw our hands up and say "we will somehow get out of cap hell without incurring long term pain, loss of picks, loss of futures". That permanent loss is pick 17 and 40 in this especially deep draft. The only argument against that is assuming that EP will eave if that is the case..... which is possible, but a hypothetical that just leads nowhere.
No one is saying this management team is as bad as Benning, we are past that, we are saying the damage Benning had done is critical, we can't slap duct tape over it, it takes a few years to resolve the bad contracts, sit back and make a Hronek trade in 2 years. Blindly charging into playoffs next year is killing the team 3 years down the road. Basically Linden vs Benning circa 2018.
I am well aware that arguing this in 2023 is pointless, because fact is, ownership only prioritize next year, because of moves like this. How best to go forward? Don't force things, dont sign any long term deals this UFA. 1-2 year max to lessen the burden when the team has the cap space to actually do something meaningful in 2025. You want to make playoffs? Let Tocchet do his thing, lets see him replicate 14-5-2 with this current team if the rot and mismanagement is indeed a thing of the past.
Not sure why you would ask a question like that, we are taking about Smith, not every other pick. A lesser prospect in Lundqvust was traded for a 1st and Smith had accomplished more. Whether you think they are worth that doesn’t matter because ultimately that is how the GMs valued it.
Montour wasn’t that good back then, what’s so hard to understand? Montour playing top 4 min on a shit team doesn’t really mean he’s a top 4 guy. I am guessing Schenn got like top4 minutes with us and i am pretty sure he’s not a top4 guy. Hell Jack Johnson plays top4 minutes for the Blackhawks last season, would anyone look at his ice time and proclaim him top 4 guy? There is a reason he went for so little but good on Florida for sticking with him and letting him Blossom.
Of course there is a large variance in value between players. Forsling was not established and seen as a replacement player when he was picked up by Florida. Established players cost more than ones that are not, yes we all know that. You do know that every off season teams are taking flyers on players and only like a handful ends up being good. Nobody argues against doing that, but when you take those bets, we call them bet for a reason because odds of them hitting are really freaking low.
not me, Hronek is a good player. my beef is not the right time, nothing to do with the quality of the player.Being a bubble team locks you into nothing. Things can change quick. Look at the Panthers. They did what we are trying to do, and became the President Trophy winners and then just went and did huge changes again.
No one things it will be easy. Like I haven't seen one person say it is easy. What they have said is its way harder to get players as good as Petterson Hughes Demko Miller and Kuze. They also realize that isn't enough, but its a huge starting point.
Finally yes people have constantly been lumping them in with Benning. Saying "same things as always" or comparing Hronek to Gudbranson.
not me, Hronek is a good player. my beef is not the right time, nothing to do with the quality of the player.
Look at the teams that finally win a Cup. Usually they fail in the playoffs for two or three seasons before they finally break through.and it’s that thinking that will always hinder this club from making the right moves and prevent us from winning a cup
Look at the teams that finally win a Cup. Usually they fail in the playoffs for two or three seasons before they finally break through.
I can honestly live with giving up a 1st for this guy, but throwing in that 2nd still bothers me. It's just so typical of this organization. Like, please, stop pissing away 2nd round picks like they're nothing. Good players get taken in the 2nd round every single year. Hell, Hronek was a 2nd round pick.
Smith had 1st round value not just because he was a former 1st rounder. He had 1st round value because he had 1st round pedigree, was part of a all rookie team, trended good enough to play in the NHL in his D+3 season. Those are better achievements than Lundqvist who struggled in the A.You said Smith was recently a 1st, so had 1st equivalent value, that's false. Ludqvist didn't deserve a 1st either. What we think matters because we can't say value is X based upon stupid trades.
Fair point about Montour being on a bad team, but the point is that there was enough there that he was worth taking a chance on as a top4 RHD. That's all the Canucks need to do.
Believe it or not, Hronek is a bet too. What you pay for him isn't necessarily what he will return. He's played 6 games here. Could you imagine paying that much and him faltering here?
The end point is that because there is variance, and underrated buys, there is no have-to-pay value, unless the team feels that they have to pay. But we can't say because the team paid X, that this is the value that always must be paid. Clearly, that is incorrect.