Fighting numbers way down this season

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

A sad commentary on a culture of violence. I would be nice if one day humanity woke up and realized that, to quote Bill & Ted, "be excellent to each other" is more important than "Kicking ass".

And maybe someday society will move forward and not waste their time and money on something as childish and pointless as professional sports.

Just remember, someone out there can always be more condescending than you.

 

[TheSituation]

"Staged", "Heat of the Moment", whatever, the league is more entertaining with fighting than it will be without it.

Next on the resume: Hitting, i guess.

Can't wait until we're watching guys prance around and throwing tantrums when someone touches you like Basketball.

Haha, avatar definitely checks out.

 

[Sheppy]

Haha, avatar definitely checks out.

Speaking of... I was meaning to change it.

 

[Volica]

I'm mostly happy that guys coming through the ranks are slowing down with the fists.
Having a fight 2 times a year in the NHL likely won't lead to brain injury (not counting falling backwards and smashing your head on the ice); it's the kids who literally since the age of 16 were fighting 30 guys in the CHL, then going to the AHL and fighting every other night; then going to the NHL and were fighting every other night.

Fairly simple:
Look at the WHL, a league that's always been synonymous would tough stuff; in 2001, 100 PIMs wouldn't get you into the top 125 of penalty minutes. This year, 100 PIMs will have you top 25. That year, there were almost 20 guys who broke 200 PIMs, this year there'll maybe be 1.

I like fighting in hockey, but again, not staged, just two willing guys who aren't pounding their brains to mush.

 

[Bandit]

And maybe someday society will move forward and not waste their time and money on something as childish and pointless as professional sports.

Just remember, someone out there can always be more condescending than you.

Yeah, maybe one day the scientists and educators will be the millionaires and the athletes will do it for the love of the sport. It's nice to dream.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Yeah, maybe one day the scientists and educators will be the millionaires and the athletes will do it for the love of the sport. It's nice to dream.

Ha. We will long be dead before that. So give up, and watch some people punch each other in the face already!

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I'm mostly happy that guys coming through the ranks are slowing down with the fists.
Having a fight 2 times a year in the NHL likely won't lead to brain injury (not counting falling backwards and smashing your head on the ice); it's the kids who literally since the age of 16 were fighting 30 guys in the CHL, then going to the AHL and fighting every other night; then going to the NHL and were fighting every other night.

Fairly simple:
Look at the WHL, a league that's always been synonymous would tough stuff; in 2001, 100 PIMs wouldn't get you into the top 125 of penalty minutes. This year, 100 PIMs will have you top 25. That year, there were almost 20 guys who broke 200 PIMs, this year there'll maybe be 1.

I like fighting in hockey, but again, not staged, just two willing guys who aren't pounding their brains to mush.

Hits. Hits. Hits.

If the anti fighting crowd drops the pretense of "fighting hurts brains!" it would be nice for the transparency of also being opposed to the very hits that certainly cause as many or more concussions as fighting. That is the irritating part. Once fighting is effectively banned that is when this next agenda will come out, but not before as the vocal minority must avoid ruffling too much opposition in preserving hockey.

 

[Volica]

Hits. Hits. Hits.

If the anti fighting crowd drops the pretense of "fighting hurts brains!" it would be nice for the transparency of also being opposed to the very hits that certainly cause as many or more concussions as fighting. That is the irritating part. Once fighting is effectively banned that is when this next agenda will come out, but not before as the vocal minority must avoid ruffling too much opposition in preserving hockey.

Oh I agree, hitting is a huge factor too.
But there's a link between the number of guys who had to fight every night and substance abuse, CTE and unfortunately suicide.

Hitting does knock the brain around; so does having to punch a guy in the face every second night for 10 years.

 

[Beukeboom]

A tibetan monk splitting bricks with his forhead does not get a concussion everytime he does it. It is about movement of the brain not impact to the head. A hard hit can give you a concussion even tough it did not even touch the head.

The numbers I have seen say fighting accounts for around 5% of the concussions. And to be honest those numbers are probably old. Looking at the fights this year I don't think we have too many concussion makers.

The skull is built to take a punch to a higher degree than the body is built to take a hit at hockey speed. Mankind can't reach a speed like that without ice and skates.

Like someone said above. If you are truly worried about concussions, take hitting out too. Don't be a hypocrite. Hitting is not necessary for the game.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

If not having a goon in the line up improves the bottom 6 of a team, then the Columbus Blue Jackets have been cheated badly.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

A tibetan monk splitting bricks with his forhead does not get a concussion everytime he does it. It is about movement of the brain not impact to the head. A hard hit can give you a concussion even tough it did not even touch the head.

The numbers I have seen say fighting accounts for around 5% of the concussions. And to be honest those numbers are probably old. Looking at the fights this year I don't think we have too many concussion makers.

The skull is built to take a punch to a higher degree than the body is built to take a hit at hockey speed. Mankind can't reach a speed like that without ice and skates.

Like someone said above. If you are truly worried about concussions, take hitting out too. Don't be a hypocrite. Hitting is not necessary for the game.

Very interesting number if it's accurate. Like you said, hitting isn't necessary either. I guess slap shots (they cause more injuries than wristers) aren't really needed either. They could soften the puck up as well, go back to the old icing rules etc., etc.

I think the entire move is part of a legal strategy designed to reduce liability in light of some (valid or not, I don't know) ECT research. Nothing more. Fighting is a huge part of the game to the casual fan. I am a long time STH to the ECHL Cincinnati Cyclones and I'd say that 75% or more of the crowd on any given night gets much more psyched about a 30 second fight than a huge skill play.

At the beginning of this season, linesmen were jumping in to stop fights before they started. They're not doing very much anymore. I think the league knows where its bread is buttered. I will go to games even if fighting is banned. I'd hazard a guess that a fair amount of people would stop coming if fighting actually was completely banned.

The NHL will survive a reduction in fighting. If they ever fully eliminated it, I'd think that many casual fans wouldn't be "casual". They'd be former fans.

 

[Jon Riley]

Hits. Hits. Hits.

If the anti fighting crowd drops the pretense of "fighting hurts brains!" it would be nice for the transparency of also being opposed to the very hits that certainly cause as many or more concussions as fighting. That is the irritating part. Once fighting is effectively banned that is when this next agenda will come out, but not before as the vocal minority must avoid ruffling too much opposition in preserving hockey.

I am one of those "anti fights" guys. For one main reason, hockey fights are less graceful, elegant, effective, interesting and meaningful than a bar fight over a spilled beer.
For me it's like going to watch a soccer match and all of a sudden the game stops and two guys pull put a chess board and start moving pieces randomly.
There is plenty of good fighting out there, watching a ridiculous version of it while I intended to watch something else screams "waste of time" very loud.

...and this does not even take into account that if fights are slowly disappearing it is not because someone is actively pushing for it to happen, it is just because fights do not win (anymore?) hockey matches, skills do.
And for a team having a skilled player getting sent off and risking an injury will very rarely be worth the "cheers" from the crowd

 

[Royale With Cheese]

But there's not even "occasional tilt" anymore. There is no pulse to the game. It's nothing.

People don't realise it's not fighting that is over, it's excitement too.

To be clear, I enjoy fast, skilled, physical hockey. I like aggressive fore-checking and I like hits, big and small. I think we all do. I follow the Jets and whatever it is they are, that's the type of hockey I enjoy. I can go forever without seeing another fight, but I definitely want to see exciting, fast paced hockey.

 

[vandymeer13]

That is a very weak argument. We send people off to fight wars that come back and live normal lives, that is not a justification to not care about all the ones that come back and commit suicide. The sooner we as a society stop getting a hard on over watching two grown people trying to beat the **** out of each other for our own personal entertainment, the better off we will be.

As I said, one story like that is one too many.

I never said the nhl should not have organizations like Daniel Carcillo's to help with post hockey life problems. So I take it you don't watch any other physical sport and you would rather have everyone sing and hold hands together in harmony. Yes I like physical sports and sanctioned fighting. It's apart of life. With your argument we shouldn't drive cars because of all of the car crash fatalities then either right?

 

[vandymeer13]

To be clear, I enjoy fast, skilled, physical hockey. I like aggressive fore-checking and I like hits, big and small. I think we all do. I follow the Jets and whatever it is they are, that's the type of hockey I enjoy. I can go forever without seeing another fight, but I definitely want to see exciting, fast paced hockey.

Change your aviator your wrecking Matthew McConaughey's image.

 

[TheSituation]

Hits. Hits. Hits.

If the anti fighting crowd drops the pretense of "fighting hurts brains!" it would be nice for the transparency of also being opposed to the very hits that certainly cause as many or more concussions as fighting. That is the irritating part. Once fighting is effectively banned that is when this next agenda will come out, but not before as the vocal minority must avoid ruffling too much opposition in preserving hockey.

But the problem is hitting is a fundamental part of the game and defending your goal. Fighting is a clumsy, side show with the goal of getting your teammates to the tap the sideboards with their sticks.

Also, there's a reason that you need a license to participate in combat sports in North America...

 

[vandymeer13]

Oh I agree, hitting is a huge factor too.
But there's a link between the number of guys who had to fight every night and substance abuse, CTE and unfortunately suicide.

Hitting does knock the brain around; so does having to punch a guy in the face every second night for 10 years.

Very few players were fighting more then 25 times a year in the last 10 years. And not all fights are the same, some it's just swing and missing and others its hugging or just you doing the punching. The problem back in the day was players getting concussed and being rushed back to early. Look at mma fighters if they get ko'd they get a lot of time off to let the brain heal compared to some past nhlers who got ko'd then played their next shift. Responsibility lies on the player to be fourth right and the organization to help assist them in making sure they don't rush back. Another problem is when the players just get handed pain killers instead of other options that are better like say marijuana.
Boogaard had cte symptoms abused pills with alcohol.
Rypien had long history of depression
Belak had depression and pill usage some say his death was accidental.
Todd ewen had depression was consumed with fear he was living with cte and it turns out he didn't show any despite being a enforcer.
Many other former athletes besides just hockey players specifically enforcers have unfortunately committed suicide so just to put it all on there role is unfair.

 

[Sheppy]

I am one of those "anti fights" guys. For one main reason, hockey fights are less graceful, elegant, effective, interesting and meaningful than a bar fight over a spilled beer.
For me it's like going to watch a soccer match and all of a sudden the game stops and two guys pull put a chess board and start moving pieces randomly.
There is plenty of good fighting out there, watching a ridiculous version of it while I intended to watch something else screams "waste of time" very loud.

...and this does not even take into account that if fights are slowly disappearing it is not because someone is actively pushing for it to happen, it is just because fights do not win (anymore?) hockey matches, skills do.
And for a team having a skilled player getting sent off and risking an injury will very rarely be worth the "cheers" from the crowd

That's fine. It's not remotely the same thing though...

I absolutely, wholeheartedly disagree with them being meaningless, though. Absolutely disagree.

There's also plenty of good hockey out there where there is no fighting, you can tune into that if the thought of a fight happening bores you, or offends you. I've watched hockey my entire life (I'm 27 years old) - It has always had fighting in it since the beginning of time... Which is why i laugh when people (not you) tell the people who support fighting to go watch another sport. I'll never, ever understand that. Why should I watch something else? I love the game of hockey, I love the skill, nastiness, speed and the physicality of it.

Hockey is unique. If a guy runs your star, or takes him out, he often times would have to answer the bell for doing so. I remember John Tavares getting run by Jared Boll a few years ago, Trevor Gillies came over and went right at Boll. After the fight, Tavares went over to the penalty box, tapped Gillies on the shoulder and said "Thanks, man" - But hey, they're meaningless, right?

Again, the players want fighting to remain in the game. They're all adults. They all know what they're getting themselves into. Don't want to fight? That's fine. Don't try to run someone's head into the boards.

 

[Sheppy]

But the problem is hitting is a fundamental part of the game and defending your goal. Fighting is a clumsy, side show with the goal of getting your teammates to the tap the sideboards with their sticks.

Also, there's a reason that you need a license to participate in combat sports in North America...

I can't. I can't even. The ignorance here is absolutely outstanding. How insanely insulting to anyone that's ever been in a fight.

You can't truly believe that's the goal of someone who drops the gloves, right? Tell me you're kidding.

 

[Jon Riley]

There's also plenty of good hockey out there where there is no fighting, you can tune into that if the thought of a fight happening bores you, or offends you.

...and this is exactly what I do, even watchint the NHL. It is the whole point of the topic, here, the fact that fights happen very rarely now and constitute less then a marginal and minute amount of the match.
There is no need to ban fighting, it's goin on its own.

I love the game of hockey, I love the skill, nastiness, speed and the physicality of it.

Oh, I do too. I simply do not think that the hockey fights have anything to do with it.

Hockey is unique. If a guy runs your star, or takes him out, he often times would have to answer the bell for doing so.

Answering the bell, 9 times out of 10, means being dragged around by the jersey and getting hugged by a sweaty stinky big man.
It's probably unpleasant, I can give you that. Not sure it's much of a deterrent (anymore?).
For example not even ending up like this

made Scherwey stop being a pain in the arse, I wonder what would be the effect of some swishy swoshy on a shoulder pad and helmet.

 

[TheSituation]

I can't. I can't even. The ignorance here is absolutely outstanding. How insanely insulting to anyone that's ever been in a fight.

You can't truly believe that's the goal of someone who drops the gloves, right? Tell me you're kidding.

I was being facetious, it's not the goal, but it's always the result. This isn't NHL 18.
I'm sorry, they also say "Thanks man". Energizing stuff.

 

[Sheppy]

I was being facetious, it's not the goal, but it's always the result. This isn't NHL 18.
I'm sorry, they also say "Thanks man". Energizing stuff.

Unbelievably condescending. Never been on the ice before, have you?

It's hilarious how people sit here and say "that has no effect", "It means nothing" meanwhile NHL players, NHL... you know, the big leagues players say otherwise.

 

[McDonald19]

Hits. Hits. Hits.

If the anti fighting crowd drops the pretense of "fighting hurts brains!" it would be nice for the transparency of also being opposed to the very hits that certainly cause as many or more concussions as fighting. That is the irritating part. Once fighting is effectively banned that is when this next agenda will come out, but not before as the vocal minority must avoid ruffling too much opposition in preserving hockey.

You are correct, fighting is the scapegoat, but eventually body checking will have to be eliminated if the league is serious about CTE/concussions.

 

[TheSituation]

Unbelievably condescending. Never been on the ice before, have you?

I actually have. But after playing other sports at higher levels, I realized that bear hugging on ice skates doesn't do **** for momentum or energy versus actually wanting to win.

 

[McDonald19]

A tibetan monk splitting bricks with his forhead does not get a concussion everytime he does it. It is about movement of the brain not impact to the head. A hard hit can give you a concussion even tough it did not even touch the head.

The numbers I have seen say fighting accounts for around 5% of the concussions. And to be honest those numbers are probably old. Looking at the fights this year I don't think we have too many concussion makers.

The skull is built to take a punch to a higher degree than the body is built to take a hit at hockey speed. Mankind can't reach a speed like that without ice and skates.

Like someone said above. If you are truly worried about concussions, take hitting out too. Don't be a hypocrite. Hitting is not necessary for the game.

Excellent post. High speed collisions are far more dangerous than the occasional fights we are now seeing. But continue making fighting your scapegoat Pacifists.