Fighting numbers way down this season

[mitchmagic]

Staged fights were awful and I'm glad they're gone along with the players who filled those roles.

The rivalry fights that just escalated after a hit or a snow shower were the best. Wish they still happened often.

Will miss the Bruins / Habs rivalry games that would always escalate into chaos.

 

[sandysan]

That's fine as long as you appreciate the chain of events that this sets in motion.

There is a player in the ECHL on this very day, at this moment preparing for a game in which he knows he will have to fight. He might have had 50 fights in junor, another 80 in the AHL, 2 in the NHL, that's the ones you paid big bucks to see, and he is building up to another 100 in the ECHL. He is 35, has no education and he gets paid $4000 a month. He didn't grow up dreaming about playing in the ECHL. He dreamed of being an NHLer. You wanted to see a couple of guys punch each other, you were prepared to pay for it and he jumped on the opportunity.

He might get home tonight, perked up on pain killers, slap his wife around a bit for no reason that he himself can understand and spend the rest of the night sitting in an empty silent dark room. He might have trouble stringing two thoughts together and one of those thoughts is how much better off everyone would be if he just shot himself in the head.

You are partially responsible for this. You are entitled to get your money's worth of entertainment but I hope you appreciate all the lives that your choice impacts.

personal choice and responsibility is dead ? Damn I must have missed it in the obits.

what you are saying is that because I might like a pop or two watching the game that I share in some responsibility when some A hole gets plastered and drives his truck into a busload of kids. hells no.

no one is forced to fight, and people EVERY DAY in every part of this country make personal decisions that I would not. and the decisions people make when their dreams are not realized is not unique to hockey, lots of people go to jobs every day that they hate. until they decide its not worth it and decide to do something else.Welcome to being an adult and in your hypothetical, I am more than comfortable saying that that 35 year old player is in a FAR FAR better position to decide what is best for himself and his family than I am.

you, not so much. and I suspect that 35 year old has a mother, so the position is filled unfortunately.

 

[Foppberg]

In this thread: Baby boomers vs millennials.

I do miss genuine fights, brawls, scrums, all that. What I don't miss is staged fighting.

They still do happen, just not as often. But I'll take guys like Landeskog, Tkachuk, Marchand etc vs some useless enforcer.

 

[sandysan]

People punched Matt Cooke. Matt Cooke still gave dirty hits. So much for fights being needed to stop dirty hits.,

It's a myth because people don't want to say that they just like to watch other people punch each other in the face. I give you credit, because you do say it, but let go of the deterrent thing. It just doesn't exist.

I'd be very interested in your opinion of fire detectors, because you know fires still happen. and seatbelts, you know some people still die in car crashes EVEN WHEN people wear them. pfffft ! useless pieces of cloth !

there's a word for people who think that a deterant has to be 100% effective in order to be a deterrent, uninformed. And I can guaran-damn-tee that when matt cooke was on the ice against evander kane, he knew where kane was every second. you want to know why ? google it.

you know who disagrees with you about the role self policing has in the game ? The overwhelming majority of players, coaches, past an present. like more than 90 out of every 100 players. But compared to you, what the hell do THEY know ? It's only their safety on the line. You don't have to worry about getting run in the numbers from your couch, why the players don't based on your infinite wisdom of the game, just blindly adopt your position is one of life's great mysteries.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

So according to you the number of fights would go up when all the goon vs goon stage fights are removed? Outstanding logic.

No, I was just pointing out the typo in your avatar.

 

[sandysan]

In this thread: Baby boomers vs millennials.

I do miss genuine fights, brawls, scrums, all that. What I don't miss is staged fighting.

They still do happen, just not as often. But I'll take guys like Landeskog, Tkachuk, Marchand etc vs some useless enforcer.

I like the animus which is rapidly dissapearing in today's game. And if two guys have a beef and want to settle it, doing so consentually and face to face is far safer and WAY more noble than the alternatives of settling it at the end of a stick or running a guy in the numbers.

And before anyone suggests that the players just sing coombaya and the " ditiest danglez" or fanciest pass wins the game, it is played in confined space at speed by large men with clubs in the hands and malice in their hearts so beefs WILL be born. The question is, how does one want these beefs to be squashed ?

 

[Dr Quincy]

I'd be very interested in your opinion of fire detectors, because you know fires still happen. and seatbelts, you know some people still die in car crashes EVEN WHEN people wear them. pfffft ! useless pieces of cloth !

there's a word for people who think that a deterant has to be 100% effective in order to be a deterrent, uninformed. And I can guaran-damn-tee that when matt cooke was on the ice against evander kane, he knew where kane was every second. you want to know why ? google it.

you know who disagrees with you about the role self policing has in the game ? The overwhelming majority of players, coaches, past an present. like more than 90 out of every 100 players. But compared to you, what the hell do THEY know ? It's only their safety on the line. You don't have to worry about getting run in the numbers from your couch, why the players don't based on your infinite wisdom of the game, just blindly adopt your position is one of life's great mysteries.

Usual appeal to authority and nothing else.
I get it, you like to watch other sweaty men punch each other. Just admit it. It's not about what players want ... it's from the safey of your couch you really like to see guys get hurt. At least admit, but you never do.

 

[sandysan]

Usual appeal to authority and nothing else.
I get it, you like to watch other sweaty men punch each other. Just admit it. It's not about what players want ... it's from the safey of your couch you really like to see guys get hurt. At least admit, but you never do.

no you DON'T get it. I support the players decision to self police as long as they want it. The second the players say they no longer want the option to drop the mitts, my support for fighting goes poof. They reap the benefits or suffer the consequences so its on them. Hell I support the idea of pitchers in baseball protecting their teamates by plunking a guy and NO ONE enjoys seeing that.

This isnt an appeal to authority, this is an appeal to let the people, and ONLY the people who could suffer from their own decisions to chart their own course, even if they go in a direction I don't like. The minute whether two guys want to throw down affects me. then I my opinion counts. until then it doesnt.

And of fighting is WAY down on the list of potential hazards and you know it. If you are going to feign this fake concern for player safety then you need to do a more convincing job of it, because right now ( surprise surprise) you look like a grade A hypocrite in decrying the less injurious parts of the game simply becuase you don't like them and to gain points with the chardonnay sipping crowd.

guess what ? two guys who look each other in the eye and consent to go, don't give a crap whether you like it or not. beleive it or not, its not all about you all the time.

and what about the fire detector issue, you just going to ignore your previous inane position ?

 

[Dr Quincy]

no you DON'T get it. I support the players decision to self police as long as they want it. The second the players say they no longer want the option to drop the mitts, my support for fighting goes poof. They reap the benefits or suffer the consequences so its on them. Hell I support the idea of pitchers in baseball protecting their teamates by plunking a guy and NO ONE enjoys seeing that.

This isnt an appeal to authority, this is an appeal to let the people, and ONLY the people who could suffer from their own decisions to chart their own course, even if they go in a direction I don't like. The minute whether two guys want to throw down affects me. then I my opinion counts. until then it doesnt.

And of fighting is WAY down on the list of potential hazards and you know it. If you are going to feign this fake concern for player safety then you need to do a more convincing job of it, because right now ( surprise surprise) you look like a grade A hypocrite in decrying the less injurious parts of the game simply becuase you don't like them and to gain points with the chardonnay sipping crowd.

guess what ? two guys who look each other in the eye and consent to go, don't give a crap whether you like it or not. beleive it or not, its not all about you all the time.

and what about the fire detector issue, you just going to ignore your previous inane position ?

Your fire detector issue was perhaps the dumbest thing I've seen on this site. Fire detectors don't prevent fires genius. Seat belts don't deter accidents. They mitigate damages when a fire starts, or when an accident happens.

Speaking of Grade A hypocrites, you, as always, make the completely contradicotry arguments that a)fighting is consensual and b) that fighting deters rats. The 2nd only is true if the first one is false.
He can't be deterred if he knows he doesn't have to fight ever. Thus there have to be fights that are non-consensual, which you know perfectly well, and which you wholeheartedly approve of given your cliched use of "Ratlandia" in every one of these threads.

We've been over this before. You don't even believe half the things you post. You aren't calling for the league to make every change to the CBA that the NHLPA wants, so your "Hey it's not me that wants fighting, it's the players" is jsut a hollow ruse to try to make it look like you don't your jollies from watching guys fight.

I have no idea why you are so ashamed of something you clearly enjoy.

 

[sandysan]

Your fire detector issue was perhaps the dumbest thing I've seen on this site. Fire detectors don't prevent fires genius. Seat belts don't deter accidents. They mitigate damages when a fire starts, or when an accident happens.

Speaking of Grade A hypocrites, you, as always, make the completely contradicotry arguments that a)fighting is consensual and b) that fighting deters rats. The 2nd only is true if the first one is false.
He can't be deterred if he knows he doesn't have to fight ever. Thus there have to be fights that are non-consensual, which you know perfectly well, and which you wholeheartedly approve of given your cliched use of "Ratlandia" in every one of these threads.

We've been over this before. You don't even believe half the things you post. You aren't calling for the league to make every change to the CBA that the NHLPA wants, so your "Hey it's not me that wants fighting, it's the players" is jsut a hollow ruse to try to make it look like you don't your jollies from watching guys fight.

I have no idea why you are so ashamed of something you clearly enjoy.

when did I say that fighting is 100% consentual ? It mostly IS, but if you play loose and easy with your stick, your consent is no longer needed and if asked you have but two choices, accept OR stand there and be a punching bag. Even guys who are not rats have to answer the bell after bad stickwork or questionable hits.

And who the hell are you to say what I enjoy ? I don't like guys getting plunked in baseball AT ALL and I still support pitchers protecting their teammates. This is THEIR business and your enjoyment ( or lack thereof) does not trump their belief that it increases safety. ooooh that must sting for the slef perceived " king of everything"

Do you wax poetic and opine about whether other things that you are a complete third party to should be maximized for your enjoyment ? what a pathological sense of entitlement you have there, Doctor.

and you are right fire detectors dont prevent fires, fire extinguishers do. but people with fire extinguishers are, on the whole, safer than people without them. a guy who has a fire extinguisher and loses his house, doesn't remove the value of one. The same way with rats, because guys like cooke do singular acts ( that coincidentally you enable with your " wont someone think of the children screeds as you clutch your pearls) does not change the fact that the players believe that in aggregate the ability to self police keeps them all SAFER. no one, not even disingenuous morons, ever suggested that fighting's protection was absolute and could act like some time machine to go back and fix things.

I'm not calling for the league to implement everything the players want because, as part of collective bargaining, I am not a party and and not so self engrossed that I think people should listen to me to maximize my enjoyment. The CBA is between the league the PA. I happen to HATE some of the things the PA has agreed to ( i.e the studpid minor for taking off you own damn helmet) but guess what ? if the players agreed to it, then as a third party to it, they can again do whatever the hell they want and deal with the consequences.

you, once again, not so much. It must really suck when people wont do precisely as you want, don't they know that you know what's best for everyone ?

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

BAH HUMBUG

 

[Semantics]

I am not a millennial but I always thought it was pretty goofy to have one (or more) players on a roster who played 5 minutes per game, looking like the peewee players at my local house league, just so they could trade brain damage with their counterpart for no benefit whatsoever.

They should really just get rid of fighting entirely. I'd be happy if the league loses fans because of this. There's no need for neanderthal fans, it's addition by subtraction.

 

[vandymeer13]

I love fighting, love the brawls, the mayhem, the wild west feel of the 70's and 80's, though I have to admit I had no idea they were this down. And I am still very much enjoying this season.

I do think it has something to do with the more balanced schedule. Less rivalry games than before. I remember fresh out of lockout two you had like 8 rivalry games a year and fighting seemed to go up for a period of time.

Your not very observant are you?

 

[vandymeer13]

Amazing. Who knew fighting would go down when your removed all the useless goons who's only purpose was to trundle on the ice, arrange a mock fight with the other team's useless goon, hug for 30 seconds and call it a fight, then take a 15 min rest.

Did it bother you anti fighting people that much when two guys would occasionally scrap or rough after the whistle? I don't get why pacifist are so against it. On the other hand if your someone like me that misses the hate the hitting and fighting you miss it extremely because it's incredibly boring it's like soccer on ice. I'll just stick to baseball football mma and fringe sports I enjoy like rugby wrestling and the Olympics

 

[Fenian24]

I am not a millennial but I always thought it was pretty goofy to have one (or more) players on a roster who played 5 minutes per game, looking like the peewee players at my local house league, just so they could trade brain damage with their counterpart for no benefit whatsoever.

They should really just get rid of fighting entirely. I'd be happy if the league loses fans because of this. There's no need for neanderthal fans, it's addition by subtraction.

How about YOU and the pansy fans go away instead, I'd be happy if the league loses fans who want ice dancing instead of hockey, to me that is addition by subtraction.

There is no need for wussy fans destroying hockey, they should get rid of the instigator and let the players police themselves and worry about the decisions the players make not a group of whiners afraid of "Neanderthals" hurting their precious feelings

 

[Puck Dogg]

I loved fighting when it was in the game. But those days seem to be over.

I was fan of fighting too, but that was back in the days then they stood for sports entertainment and not brain damage. The zeitgeist around the game isn't favoring fisticuffs anymore. I guess its time to move on.

 

[sandysan]

I was fan of fighting too, but that was back in the days then they stood for sports entertainment and not brain damage. The zeitgeist around the game isn't favoring fisticuffs anymore. I guess its time to move on.

fights might have BEEN entertaining, but that was never EVER the reason players dropped the gloves. Hell you play fast in loose with your stick in a midnight beer league with more people on the bench than in the stands, you very likely will have to settle accounts. under this scenario who precisely is being entertained ? Players dropped the gloves and will continue to drop the gloves for accountability. accountability on an empty rink or in front of 15 000 fans.

And in the never ending trumpeting of CTE, the most recent work ( on a whopping 4 brains ) says that "signs" of CTE appear almost immediately and result from non concussive contact. So if the notion of " brain damage" causes you to clutch your pearls, advocating no contact hockey is the only safe way forward because it is, by far and away, the greatest risk.

as to the zeitgeist, you know who disagrees ? the players. if you are not sure which ones, its pretty much all of them. if you can't tell who they are, its the only demographic of individuals who are at risk ( your offended sensibilities won't leave a scar, I promise)

 

[Mr Hat]

Ben Harpur beats up Kuraly and ends up with 2 min instigator and 10 min misconduct. Bruins score on the ensuing PP.

The DoPS and reffing in this league is a complete gongshow.

 

[Dondini]

I don’t get why everyone hates staged fighting, I guess it’s because that every team used to have a couple guys there solely for fighting. But we don’t have that anymore. But If Jamie Benn and Max domi wanna stage a fight tell me that’s bad for the game.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

Ive been reading this debate for 25 years. Ive always been a fan of the rough side of hockey. I can certainly tell you that I don't enjoy or watch as much NHL as I used to. Its still the best sport, but Im not as interested. Taking out the redline was what changed it all IMHO. I miss those big Scott Stevens hits that now would send a guy to prison.