Fighting numbers way down this season

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
55,687
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The Arctic
I actually have. But after playing other sports at high levels, I realized that bear hugging on ice skates doesn't do **** for momentum or energy.
So it was the other sports, not hockey that made you realize this? Not hockey itself?

You're right. I hit a triple last year in the semi finals of a tournament and had an epiphany that fighting has nothing to do with an NHL team gaining momentum.
 

McDonald19

Registered User
Sep 9, 2003
22,957
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California
But the problem is hitting is a fundamental part of the game and defending your goal. Fighting is a clumsy, side show with the goal of getting your teammates to the tap the sideboards with their sticks.

It doesn't have to be. Some of the best defense is quick stick work and positioning like Scott Niedermayer hockey.

A significant amount of fights are caused by hitting. Why not remove both since hitting causes 95% of concussions and fighting 5%?
 

Jon Riley

Registered User
May 2, 2015
829
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Oslo
Think I'll take the opinions of actual NHLers (who want fighting to stay in hockey) over you are your beer leaguers. Thanks.
Funny, they want it so much that basicallu none of them is fighting anymore.

Fighting is disappearing exactly because the players (and teams) have too much to lose from it. It appears that the "momentum" thing and the teambuilding moments may not be worth it after all..
 

TheSituation

Registered User
Dec 26, 2007
5,102
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New York City
So it was the other sports, not hockey that made you realize this? Not hockey itself?

You're right. I hit a triple last year in the semi finals of a tournament and had an epiphany that fighting has nothing to do with an NHL team gaining momentum.
So help explain why fights are happening less and less while the punishment stays the same????
 
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vandymeer13

Registered User
Feb 8, 2017
797
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Iowa
...and this is exactly what I do, even watchint the NHL. It is the whole point of the topic, here, the fact that fights happen very rarely now and constitute less then a marginal and minute amount of the match.
There is no need to ban fighting, it's goin on its own.
I hate when people say that hockey is just generally evolving away from fighting. No rules being added and altered are fueling it for the worse. The instigator a horrible rule hurt, no instigating in the last 5 min. Mandatory visors so players are even less respectful with there sticks and checking to the head. Handing out 10 min misconducts like candy for sometimes just talking or being on the ice by reputation. And then the worst rule ever is in the ahl which is AAA hockey max the number to 10 fights then suspension. If you want to limit junior players to 10 then suspend them fine but pro adults is dumb. The OHL having a 3 fight limit is pathetic and so are the QJHL with all there asinine anti fighting rules like fighting after a faceoff or taking off a opponents helmet after the fight started. Ushl with a 15 minute penalty for a fight is why I'll never go to a game again. The WHL is by far the most entertaining junior league played the right way.
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
55,687
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The Arctic
Ha, GMs and coaches are clearly starting to agree...
Why? Because the one dimensional goon has been phased out? That has literally nothing to do with anything. That doesn't mean they want fighting gone, that means they won't employ someone who would strictly go out there TO fight.
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
55,687
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The Arctic
So help explain why fights are happening less and less while the punishment stays the same????
1 the enforcer is all but gone. You could chalk up guys like Janssen, Orr, McGrattan, Prust, Parros having 18-25 fights per season alone.

There are still a ton of guys out there that are willing to drop the gloves and will drop the gloves. The scheduled appointment fights are all but gone. Again, that has nothing to do with fighting leaving the game of hockey. It has everything to do with non skilled enforcers no longer really having a place in the game.
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
55,687
57,317
The Arctic
I hate when people say that hockey is just generally evolving away from fighting. No rules being added and altered are fueling it for the worse. The instigator a horrible rule hurt, no instigating in the last 5 min. Mandatory visors so players are even less respectful with there sticks and checking to the head. Handing out 10 min misconducts like candy for sometimes just talking or being on the ice by reputation. And then the worst rule ever is in the ahl which is AAA hockey max the number to 10 fights then suspension. If you want to limit junior players to 10 then suspend them fine but pro adults is dumb. The OHL having a 3 fight limit is pathetic and so are the QJHL with all there asinine anti fighting rules like fighting after a faceoff or taking off a opponents helmet after the fight started. Ushl with a 15 minute penalty for a fight is why I'll never go to a game again. The WHL is by far the most entertaining junior league played the right way.

I agree, 100%.
 
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Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
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It's the head shots (Cooke to Savard, Cooke to Lecavalier, Cooke to.....) that absolutely need to be stopped.



And Pronger's crap:



These players are the ones who have no place in the game. Deliberate high speed collisions where hitting another's head is the goal causes more damage than almost any punch delivered in a fight could.

The league has made a lot of progress in trying to eliminate this garbage. The great irony is that Cooke and Pronger both deserved to be beaten into oblivion via fighting for doing what they did.
 
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Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
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It's the head shots (Cooke to Savard, Cooke to Lecavalier, Cooke to.....) that absolutely need to be stopped.



And Pronger's crap:



These players are the ones who have no place in the game. Deliberate high speed collisions where hitting another's head is the goal causes more damage than almost any punch delivered in a fight could.

The league has made a lot of progress in trying to eliminate this garbage. The great irony is that Cooke and Pronger both deserved to be beaten into oblivion via fighting for doing what they did.

No they didn't. According to one anti fighting poster in here, it would be better if a player would go up to them and try to reason with them, and get them to explain themselves.
 

Beukeboom

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
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1,353
Very interesting number if it's accurate. Like you said, hitting isn't necessary either. I guess slap shots (they cause more injuries than wristers) aren't really needed either. They could soften the puck up as well, go back to the old icing rules etc., etc.

I think the entire move is part of a legal strategy designed to reduce liability in light of some (valid or not, I don't know) ECT research. Nothing more. Fighting is a huge part of the game to the casual fan. I am a long time STH to the ECHL Cincinnati Cyclones and I'd say that 75% or more of the crowd on any given night gets much more psyched about a 30 second fight than a huge skill play.

At the beginning of this season, linesmen were jumping in to stop fights before they started. They're not doing very much anymore. I think the league knows where its bread is buttered. I will go to games even if fighting is banned. I'd hazard a guess that a fair amount of people would stop coming if fighting actually was completely banned.

The NHL will survive a reduction in fighting. If they ever fully eliminated it, I'd think that many casual fans wouldn't be "casual". They'd be former fans.
I have seen the number a few times. The last source I can recall is in the documentary Ice Guardians.
 
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YesCubed

Registered User
Mar 2, 2015
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enforcers don't do anything and haven't for a while. the nhl needs to hand out suspensions for dirty plays. maybe one day they'll get a qualified person to run the DoPS instead of some old boy goon and it'll happen.

No they didn't. According to one anti fighting poster in here, it would be better if a player would go up to them and try to reason with them, and get them to explain themselves.

it would probably be better if the nhl suspended them

Think I'll take the opinions of actual NHLers (who want fighting to stay in hockey) over you are your beer leaguers. Thanks.

hockey players patronize enforcers. it's embarrassing. the media does it as well. when was the last time a goon was asked "why didn't you go after [insert rat here]?". they aren't actually players. they're a sideshow and everyone knows it
 

Scrantonicity 2

Not a Generational Poster
Mar 7, 2016
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All of the former goons are all too old and retired or on AHL rosters and not enough new goons coming in.

Meanwhile you have new pukes coming in slewfooting and cheapshotting everyone like Tkachuk and Landeskog, so eventually they'll come back.

lol you have Thornton as your avatar and you're complaining about cheapshots? He's lowkey one of the dirtiest players in the league.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
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Make my day.
Amazing. Who knew fighting would go down when your removed all the useless goons who's only purpose was to trundle on the ice, arrange a mock fight with the other team's useless goon, hug for 30 seconds and call it a fight, then take a 15 min rest.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
5,595
Make my day.
All of the former goons are all too old and retired or on AHL rosters and not enough new goons coming in.

Meanwhile you have new pukes coming in slewfooting and cheapshotting everyone like Tkachuk and Landeskog, so eventually they'll come back.
The really stopped the Messiers, Prongers, Marchment, Cookes, Averys, Torres, etc etc and the like. We've never heard of these guys because goons stopped them from ever existing. Now wait, half of them were worshipped for being amongst the dirtiest pricks to pick up a stick. Gordie Howe's elbows are still famous.

If you like fighting that's one thing, suggesting it stopped pests is nonsense.
 

MetalheadPenguinsFan

Registered User
Sep 17, 2009
63,699
16,746
Canada
Amazing. Who knew fighting would go down when your removed all the useless goons who's only purpose was to trundle on the ice, arrange a mock fight with the other team's useless goon, hug for 30 seconds and call it a fight, then take a 15 min rest.

You have a typo in the thing under your avatar.

It's "calling" out the crap.
 

blood gin

Registered User
Jan 17, 2017
4,174
2,203
I love fighting, love the brawls, the mayhem, the wild west feel of the 70's and 80's, though I have to admit I had no idea they were this down. And I am still very much enjoying this season.

I do think it has something to do with the more balanced schedule. Less rivalry games than before. I remember fresh out of lockout two you had like 8 rivalry games a year and fighting seemed to go up for a period of time.
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
14,941
18,802
Key Biscayne
The numbers will inevitably decline, but...

The numbers there are the first half of the season projected across a whole season. Although brawl/fiasco games sometimes happen early, most of the notable ones have come in the latter half of seasons. Also, schedules are heavily backloaded with division games this time around. I am going to guess there will be more fights in the second half of the season and the dropoff will not be nearly as dramatic as the projections in the OP.
 

wabagee

Registered User
Nov 24, 2014
2,074
1,199
All my favorite things are bad for people, Who knew? Thankfully I will not last long. I would hate to see this world in 20 years, never mind hockey!
 

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