FaZe Clan is taking over

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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"siri, whats the definition of an esport athlete"
A professional player with a work contract with an eSports team.
Yes, Billy Mitchell is an athlete.
i also stated in my first post that people need to re-imagine their definition of what an athlete is and stop...pardon the trope... gatekeeping the antiquated definition of sweaty jocks towel snapping each other over a touchdown. Its 2021, move forward.

esport athlete ≠ athlete

good lord.
Yes, Chess is a sport.

Their physical exertion is incredible as they ponder each move for 20 minutes.

Google "physical exterion in eSports"
you're welcome

Why don't you link the study you want to use instead? No doctor would tell someone to get in shape by playing video games that only involve you sitting in a chair. You're reaching.

You want to "re-imagine" or change what the definition of an athlete is because professional gamers are not athletes. If they were, it wouldn't need to be re-imagined.
 

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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The closest E-sports scene I followed was back when SC2 launched with the days of HuK, IdrA, iNcontrol (RIP) etc. I'm glad it's still going on but I recognize nobody.

Since each game has it's own niche and own players, I find it really difficult to keep up with. I'm with you having followed that era of SC2 (and SC in general) but that doesn't have much crossover with other games unless you're talking about some Dota players or League of Legends guys...and even that is pretty minimal.
 

NyQuil

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Their physical exertion is incredible as they ponder each move for 20 minutes.

Interestingly, this story is on ESPN ;)

Robert Sapolsky, who studies stress in primates at Stanford University, says a chess player can burn up to 6,000 calories a day while playing in a tournament, three times what an average person consumes in a day. Based on breathing rates (which triple during competition), blood pressure (which elevates) and muscle contractions before, during and after major tournaments, Sapolsky suggests that grandmasters' stress responses to chess are on par with what elite athletes experience.

"Grandmasters sustain elevated blood pressure for hours in the range found in competitive marathon runners," Sapolsky says.

It all combines to produce an average weight loss of 2 pounds a day, or about 10-12 pounds over the course of a 10-day tournament in which each grandmaster might play five or six times. The effect can be off-putting to the players themselves, even if it's expected. Caruana, whose base weight is 135 pounds, drops to 120 to 125 pounds. "Sometimes I've weighed myself after tournaments and I've seen the scale drop below 120," he says, "and that's when I get mildly scared."

The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

No one is calling them athletes but it is interesting nonetheless. I am sure gamers probably report similar outcomes.
 
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PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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Interestingly, this story is on ESPN ;)



The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

No one is calling them athletes but it is interesting nonetheless. I am sure gamers probably report similar outcomes.

I guess having a panic attack and hyperventilating should also be considered a sport? :sarcasm:

It is interesting, and neither of us are saying what they do isn't hard or stressful. The problem is the study is looking at a very specific scenario in chess, which isn't the norm. If you took an unranked player and had them play chess for that same period of time, in the same tournament, I'd bet the outcome would be drastically different because the stress isn't there. The breathing rates, blood pressure, etc. is all part of the mental side of the game, not because it requires physical exertion. You cannot have two people playing chess and call one an athlete and the other not because of the level they are competing at. Everyone who plays a sport is an athlete, not just the professional ones.

I think it speaks to how difficult it is to get to that level in chess, or any game, and it should be applauded when someone does reach that level.
 

Cubs2024WSChamps

Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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Gamers are athletes…my lord
No.

Professional gamers are athletes.

Not gamers. Not streamers.

Pro gamers who are .1% players who can win ridiculous amounts of money on big stages on account of their expertise at playing videah games, are.

There’s only one .1% player in this chat. And it’s not the guy who falsely claimed he was a top 30 player in 2007, it’s me. And even I don’t think I’m better then some of these kids grinding.
 

Beau Knows

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Mar 4, 2013
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No.

Professional gamers are athletes.

Not gamers. Not streamers.

Pro gamers who are .1% players who can win ridiculous amounts of money on big stages on account of their expertise at playing videah games, are.

There’s only one .1% player in this chat. And it’s not the guy who falsely claimed he was a top 30 player in 2007, it’s me. And even I don’t think I’m better then some of these kids grinding.

This is embarrassing
 

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Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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This is embarrassing
It’s only embarrassing if anybody is trying to prop themselves up and say they are on the same level as these kids.

They’re not.

There is a huge disconnect here where casual gamers who think they are good are suddenly on the same level as these kids.

In this thread alone, you have one person bragging they beat Ninja, another saying they were a top 30 CoD player back in 2007, and somebody who is a 3.0% player saying they’re good.

That, in a nutshell, is the problem.

These kids on Faze, most of them, are .1% players and are playing at that level for money. And nobody here can grasp that.

If anybody here(not counting myself) can win a big money tournament, I’ll retract my statement these guys are athletes.
 

Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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No.

Professional gamers are athletes.

Not gamers. Not streamers.

Pro gamers who are .1% players who can win ridiculous amounts of money on big stages on account of their expertise at playing videah games, are.

There’s only one .1% player in this chat. And it’s not the guy who falsely claimed he was a top 30 player in 2007, it’s me. And even I don’t think I’m better then some of these kids grinding.

Why are only professional gamers athletes? No other "sport" has that requirement. Instead, there's a distinction between a "pro" athlete and an "amateur" one. What that tells us is that being an athlete doesn't have to do with how much money you make or how good you are. If you're in high school and regularly play a sport, you're an athlete... maybe not a good one, but you're still an athlete. Similarly, if you're in high school and regularly play Call of Duty, you're as much of an athlete as the grown men who regularly play it in tournaments. If the latter are actually going around calling themselves athletes while denying the term to the 99.9% of gamers who aren't as skilled as them, then that just suggests why they don't deserve the term, either.
 

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Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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Why are only professional gamers athletes? No other "sport" has that requirement. Instead, there's a distinction between a "pro" athlete and an "amateur" one. What that tells us is that being an athlete doesn't have to do with how much money you make or how good you are. If you're in high school and regularly play a sport, you're an athlete... maybe not a good one, but you're still an athlete. Similarly, if you're in high school and regularly play Call of Duty, you're as much of an athlete as the grown men who regularly play it in tournaments. If the latter are actually going around calling themselves athletes while denying the term to the 99.9% of gamers who aren't as skilled as them, then that just suggests why they don't deserve the term, either.
No.

You are just a casual gamer.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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No.

Professional gamers are athletes.

Not gamers. Not streamers.

Pro gamers who are .1% players who can win ridiculous amounts of money on big stages on account of their expertise at playing videah games, are.

There’s only one .1% player in this chat. And it’s not the guy who falsely claimed he was a top 30 player in 2007, it’s me. And even I don’t think I’m better then some of these kids grinding.
That would mean gaming in general is an athletic activity. Which it isn't. Professional athletes are athletes because they are paid to play an athletic activity at a professional level. It's the exact same thing as poker, and no one is calling those guys athletes. Something doesn't become an athletic activity only to the .1% who excel at it.
 

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Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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That would mean gaming in general is an athletic activity. Which it isn't. Professional athletes are athletes because they are paid to play an athletic activity at a professional level. It's the exact same thing as poker, and no one is calling those guys athletes. Something doesn't become an athletic activity only to the .1% who excel at it.
Did you just not watch the CoD tourney?

That was an athletic activity on a professional level.
 

93LEAFS

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Did you just not watch the CoD tourney?

That was an athletic activity on a professional level.
An athletic activity doesn't need to be professional for it to be deemed an athletic activity. You play rec league hockey you still participated in an athletic endeavor professional or not. You didn't if you casually played Fortnite last night. Whether something is an athletic endeavor is determined at the entry-level, not the top end. Hence, you are a professional athlete if you are a paid professional in a task that is deemed athletic.
 
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BondraTime

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That would mean gaming in general is an athletic activity. Which it isn't. Professional athletes are athletes because they are paid to play an athletic activity at a professional level. It's the exact same thing as poker, and no one is calling those guys athletes. Something doesn't become an athletic activity only to the .1% who excel at it.
One would think this would be an extremely easy to grasp concept.
 

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Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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An athletic activity doesn't need to be professional for it to be deemed an athletic activity. You play rec league hockey you still participated in an athletic endeavor professional or not. You didn't if you casually played Fortnite last night. Whether something is an athletic endeavor is determined at the entry-level, not the top end. Hence, you are a professional athlete if you are a paid professional in a task that is deemed athletic.
How is playing video games not athletic?

If two big fat guys jump in inflatable sumo suits and start wrestling, are they suddenly athletes on account of belly flopping on each other?

Im sorry, if you don’t think you are physically and mentally training yourself to play video games at a high level then I don’t know what to tell you. These kids are at a different level and nobody here can grasp that because they’re not at that level. They think because they play video games they suddenly have some knowledge or incite, but nobody here outside of one person, has played in any type of big money tournament.

Here’s a question;

Say you play a sport, say hockey, do you consider yourself to be at the same level as McDavid?
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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How is playing video games not athletic?

If two big fat guys jump in inflatable sumo suits and start wrestling, are they suddenly athletes on account of belly flopping on each other?

Im sorry, if you don’t think you are physically and mentally training yourself to play video games at a high level then I don’t know what to tell you. These kids are at a different level and nobody here can grasp that because they’re not at that level. They think because they play video games they suddenly have some knowledge or incite, but nobody here outside of one person, has played in any type of big money tournament.

Here’s a question;

Say you play a sport, say hockey, do you consider yourself to be at the same level as McDavid?
No, but Hockey is an athletic activity. Being paid to participate in an athletic competition is what makes someone a professional athlete. If something isn't athletic at the entry-level it, therefore, isn't a professional sport. Video games aren't. Tons of things require precision and training but aren't athletic activities. You seem to be having trouble grasping that. I've played hockey, and I'd consider that an athletic activity, I don't consider myself McDavid level or a professional athlete. I've also played video games and I don't consider that an athletic activity. Something doesn't become athletic at its top end, it's either an athletic activity or it isn't. Hockey at any level would be deemed an athletic activity. And, if you are good enough to be paid to play in something that is already deemed athletic, then you are a professional athlete.

And, I don't know what type of strawman you are drawing with wrestling and dressed up in sumo suits. "Professional" wrestlers are entertainers in a scripted program. Olympic wrestlers are athletes.

Your logic is insanely flawed because you are claiming an activity all of a sudden becomes athletic at the top end. It's a game that requires skill like poker or chess. Activities very few people consider athletic.
 
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Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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No.

You are just a casual gamer.

You didn't respond to my question or argument. Why does a gamer have to be a professional in the top .1% of the world to be considered an "athlete" when that arbitrary criterion doesn't apply to any other sport?
Say you play a sport, say hockey, do you consider yourself to be at the same level as McDavid?

The answer is obviously no, but not being on the same level as McDavid doesn't mean that you're not an athlete. Major juniors and the NCAA are filled with hockey players who are not as good as him and aren't even professionals, yet are clearly athletes by every definition of the term. You don't see stars like McDavid or even any NHLers going around claiming that players below their level aren't athletes, because that would be outrageously egotistical and wrong, but that's essentially what you're doing.
 
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Beau Knows

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If you're not getting paid you're not an athlete? What a stretch, just to make video games seem like a sport, if that's the best argument you can make that's saying a lot.

No ones saying it isn't impressive how good some people are at video games, just like you'd be foolish to dismiss Phil Taylor's darts skills, it unbelievable how good he is. But neither darts or video games are sports.
 

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Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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No, but Hockey is an athletic activity. Being paid to participate in an athletic competition is what makes someone a professional athlete. If something isn't athletic at the entry-level it, therefore, isn't a professional sport. Video games aren't. Tons of things require precision and training but aren't athletic activities. You seem to be having trouble grasping that. I've played hockey, and I'd consider that an athletic activity, I don't consider myself McDavid level or a professional athlete. I've also played video games and I don't consider that an athletic activity. Something doesn't become athletic at its top end, it's either an athletic activity or it isn't. Hockey at any level would be deemed an athletic activity. And, if you are good enough to be paid to play in something that is already deemed athletic, then you are a professional athlete.

And, I don't know what type of strawman you are drawing with wrestling and dressed up in sumo suits. "Professional" wrestlers are entertainers in a scripted program. Olympic wrestlers are athletes.

Your logic is insanely flawed because you are claiming an activity all of a sudden becomes athletic at the top end. It's a game that requires skill like poker or chess. Activities very few people consider athletic.
Yeah but, esports was in the olympics and will be featured more prominently in future olympics.

Chess is a sport recognized by the IOC.

Is the IOC wrong?

Im sorry, top end esports is athletic. Just because the antiquated definition of athletics clouds your judgement doesn’t mean it clouds everyone’s.

And btw, pro wrestlers are athletes
 

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Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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You didn't respond to my question or argument. Why does a gamer have to be a professional in the top .1% of the world to be considered an "athlete" when that arbitrary criterion doesn't apply to any other sport?


The answer is obviously no, but not being on the same level as McDavid doesn't mean that you're not an athlete. Major juniors and the NCAA are filled with hockey players who are not as good as him and aren't even professionals, yet are clearly athletes by every definition of the term. You don't see stars like McDavid or even any NHLers going around claiming that players below their level aren't athletes, because that would be outrageously egotistical and wrong, but that's essentially what you're doing.
So if my grandparents played a pick up game of basketball, they’re atheletes?
 

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Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
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If you're not getting paid you're not an athlete? What a stretch, just to make video games seem like a sport, if that's the best argument you can make that's saying a lot.

No ones saying it isn't impressive how good some people are at video games, just like you'd be foolish to dismiss Phil Taylor's darts skills, it unbelievable how good he is. But neither darts or video games are sports.
Video games are a sport, tho.
 

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