Confirmed with Link: Faulk & 5th to STL for Edmundson, Bokk, 2021 7th

ChicagoBlues

Sentient
Oct 24, 2006
14,264
5,444
Regarding Toronto and Pietrangelo:

Where there’s a will, there’s a way. GMs have proven it time and again that they can squeeze in another high-priced player.

GMs do the dumbest shit each and every season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MissouriMook

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,121
13,049
Regarding Toronto and Pietrangelo:

Where there’s a will, there’s a way. GMs have proven it time and again that they can squeeze in another high-priced player.

GMs do the dumbest **** each and every season.
Toronto is the most top heavy roster in the history of the salary cap. They only managed to fit in this current season's group by trading a ton of assets AND pushing the blue line problem to next summer. There is absolutely no precedent for a GM being able to fit a Petro-sized contract into the situation Toronto is currently in next summer. Unless they are trading Marner, bringing in Petro would ensure that their overall 1-6 defense would be the worst it has been since the drafted Matthews.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 67Blues

MissouriMook

Still just a Mook among men
Sponsor
Jul 4, 2014
7,858
8,192
This conversation has gotten a bit off topic, but I see the most likely outcome next summer being that TOR brings back two of Barrie, Ceci and Muzzin at a cost of $13M-$15M for the two they sign. I think they move Nylander for futures. That leaves them about $33.5M tied up in their Top 3 forwards, $18M-$20M tied up in their Top 3 D, and $5M for Andersen. That's about $57.5M (give or take) tied up in 7 players, leaving around $26-$27M to fill in the remaining 13-16 roster spots. Not ideal, and they may need to make a series of lesser moves, but certainly not insurmountable. Ultimately, I think they're going to look back in a few years and realize that they either shouldn't have gone after Tavares or should have moved one of Matthews or Marner for a king's ransom in order to build a complete team to win a Cup. I don't think the group of 7 mentioned above can be complimented well enough for them to get it done unless absolutely everything breaks right for them.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,121
13,049
This conversation has gotten a bit off topic, but I see the most likely outcome next summer being that TOR brings back two of Barrie, Ceci and Muzzin at a cost of $13M-$15M for the two they sign. I think they move Nylander for futures. That leaves them about $33.5M tied up in their Top 3 forwards, $18M-$20M tied up in their Top 3 D, and $5M for Andersen. That's about $57.5M (give or take) tied up in 7 players, leaving around $26-$27M to fill in the remaining 13-16 roster spots. Not ideal, and they may need to make a series of lesser moves, but certainly not insurmountable. Ultimately, I think they're going to look back in a few years and realize that they either shouldn't have gone after Tavares or should have moved one of Matthews or Marner for a king's ransom in order to build a complete team to win a Cup. I don't think the group of 7 mentioned above can be complimented well enough for them to get it done unless absolutely everything breaks right for them.

I think the biggest issue is the contracts they gave to Matthews and Marner. They are both great players, but it is absolutely unacceptable that they are the 3rd and 5th highest paid forwards in the league AND are only on 5 and 6 year deals. McDavid is the only other RFA making north of $10 mil AAV. Eichel makes $10 mil, but for an 8 year deal. Rantanen came in at $9.25 mil. Aho is just shy of $8.5 mil.

There is just no justification to give those two a combined $22.5 mil. The only even remotely justifiable reason to spend that much is if you got them both for 8 years so you could afford to have a couple years in the middle where you retooled around them. Even then I think that AAV is too high, but it would at least be in the ballpark of justifiable. But with the term they actually got, they have to be all in every year and the AAV should have been drastically lower. The horrible Matthews contract boxed them in to a horrible Marner contract.

I thought Tavares was a pretty good signing and I was all in favor of keeping those big 3 together. But Matthews/Marner should have cost absolutely no more than $19.5 mil combined and that is on the high end IMO. Spending $3 mil more than that is going to prevent them from building the D they need to win a Cup. It was going to be very tough (but doable) at $30.5 mil for the big 3 forwards. I think that extra $3 mil will make it impossible if they don't do it this year.

Going to your outlook, I don't think they can build a long term Cup winner that way. Tying up that much into 3 D pretty much ensures that Andersen is gone after next season and I don't see how they will find a goalie good enough to overcome a still-bad D for cheap enough. Having 6 UFA D men one summer followed by a UFA starting goalie the next is just miserably tough to overcome when you are in cap hell, have a mediocre prospect pool and are already missing a one of your future 1st rounders.

Edit: to swing it back on topic, these type of cap situations remind me just how good our bad signings are. For all the hand wringing about Faulk and Schenn, maneuvering around those deals is nothing compared to the situation other teams are in. Like you said, Toronto is looking at $57.5 mil tied up in 7 guys. That's slightly more than we have tied up in ROR, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Schenn, Steen, Perron, Parayko, Faulk, Binny and Allen for next season. Swap Perron for Bozak and that total is $58.35 for the bulk of our best players as well as every single contract that people don't like on the team. Here's another way to look at it. Sign Petro for $9 mil AAV and clear Allen+Steen while eating $3.25 mil in cap. We would then be paying $55.5 mil for ROR, Tarasenko, Schenn, Schwartz, Petro, Parayko, Faulk, Binny and cap penalties/retention. So $2 mil less than what Toronto is tying up in 7 guys and IMO our top 3 D group would be better than theirs by a larger margin than their top 3 forwards are better than our top 4. Not to mention that we haven't even talked about the fact that Toronto is still eating $1.2 mil a year on Kessel, so our 8 man core + cap casualties would be about $3 mil cheaper than Toronto's 7 man core + casualties. These thought experiments definitely take us off topic, but they underscore the fact that what we complain about with Army's contract issues isn't even close to the crappy cap situations other teams are in.
 
Last edited:

ChicagoBlues

Sentient
Oct 24, 2006
14,264
5,444
Toronto is the most top heavy roster in the history of the salary cap. They only managed to fit in this current season's group by trading a ton of assets AND pushing the blue line problem to next summer. There is absolutely no precedent for a GM being able to fit a Petro-sized contract into the situation Toronto is currently in next summer. Unless they are trading Marner, bringing in Petro would ensure that their overall 1-6 defense would be the worst it has been since the drafted Matthews.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Idiocy, however, has a precedent.
 

TK 421

Barbashev eats babies pass it on
Sep 12, 2007
6,460
6,114
Maybe. Maybe not.

Idiocy, however, has a precedent.

The Leafs payed just to dump Marleau this summer and as Brian pointed out the corner they've painted themselves into is unprecedented in the salary cap era.

They basically have to pray they can get team friendly deals out of veteran dmen looking to get payed big money and that's not happening. Plus a goalie with stats that will get him payed somewhere other than Toronto. They're completely f***ed already so no chance they'd be in the Pietrangelo mix. They could have before Dubas screwed his cap structure all to hell but not now. This is relevant to us only in that most Leaf fans are now well aware they have no shot at Petro and thus the amount of dumb trade proposals we see will be drastically reduced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tomin

ChicagoBlues

Sentient
Oct 24, 2006
14,264
5,444
The Leafs payed just to dump Marleau this summer and as Brian pointed out the corner they've painted themselves into is unprecedented in the salary cap era.

They basically have to pray they can get team friendly deals out of veteran dmen looking to get payed big money and that's not happening. Plus a goalie with stats that will get him payed somewhere other than Toronto. They're completely ****ed already so no chance they'd be in the Pietrangelo mix. They could have before Dubas screwed his cap structure all to hell but not now. This is relevant to us only in that most Leaf fans are now well aware they have no shot at Petro and thus the amount of dumb trade proposals we see will be drastically reduced.
All of this and @Brian39 post make sense and is perfectly logical.

But haven’t we seen GMs do the most idiotic and illogical shit?

How it could be pulled off? I don’t know.
 

STL BLUES

Youth Movement
Oct 22, 2013
3,168
2,173
Up-Nort
Although Brian39 makes logical sense. I’m leaning towards ChicagoBlues. Toronto can afford to move a forward and desperately need some help on D.

I doubt Petro would say no to going home. No way Army would allow Petro to walk without the Blues getting something in return. Petro’s NTC is worthless at the end of the season. Let’s get it Dunn.
 

REZERO

Registered User
Mar 19, 2019
23
19
I think what it comes down to to me is I just don’t value Faulk all that highly. Of course Army knows more than us and I’d reason to agree Faulk was brought in as insurance in the event Petro walks...but I don’t see Faulk being worth $6.5M. If we’re going to overpay a d-man and do it longterm, I’d prefer to do it on one that’s currently one of the top-10 d-men on the planet (IMO of course) in Petro than a middling 2nd pairing caliber guy like Faulk.

I get the insurance aspect but I just don’t agree Faulk being that insurance and it being at that price was a good idea. And I generally agree with the way Army operates. I just think this move took on needless risk. There had to be way less risky ways to improve the team and even provide some insurance to the RD position in the event that Petro leaves than commit to an on d-men for big money for 8 years.

You summed up my thoughts perfectly. If Petro walks he is not a backfill as Faulk is a 3rd liner.
 

Ranksu

Crotch Academy ftw
Sponsor
Apr 28, 2014
19,704
9,328
Lapland
I'm starting lose my faith on Faulk. More I see him more I've seen errors which aren't acceptable and not even closed enough for guy who got 6.500mill.$ x 7-years contract. This contract starts to look even worse day by day and it hasn't even started. Jeeeezzz. :facepalm:
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
My feelings are if Petro wasn't committed then that should have shifted the Blues towards a rebuild. Faulk is not a replacement, not by a long shot.

I'm fine with the cost of Faulk but as others have said....the insta contract was brutal.
 

Ranksu

Crotch Academy ftw
Sponsor
Apr 28, 2014
19,704
9,328
Lapland
My feelings are if Petro wasn't committed then that should have shifted the Blues towards a rebuild. Faulk is not a replacement, not by a long shot.

I'm fine with the cost of Faulk but as others have said....the insta contract was brutal.
If Berube wanted offensive dmen why Army didn't recommend know guy like Shattenkirk who was clearly motivated, he was available. Now we're pretty shitty situation with Faulk which is 7 more years about him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dbrownss

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
If Berube wanted offensive dmen why Army didn't recommend know guy like Shattenkirk who was clearly motivated, he was available. Now we're pretty ****ty situation with Faulk which is 7 more years about him.
We could have just signed Gardiner too he took 4yrs and is basically LHS Faulk. There were options and without a 180° from Faulk, I don't see this looking good, even if Petro leaves.

What's even more concerning is how they billed him as a PP specialist....he sucks at that too. When given the opportunity, Petro has been just fine on the PP. They could have went with him and 4 forwards then PP2 with Parayko and Dunn, Parayko parked for 1 timers. Faulks best asset is his shot and he's rarely set up to use it
 
  • Like
Reactions: 67Blues

Ranksu

Crotch Academy ftw
Sponsor
Apr 28, 2014
19,704
9,328
Lapland
We could have just signed Gardiner too he took 4yrs and is basically LHS Faulk. There were options and without a 180° from Faulk, I don't see this looking good, even if Petro leaves.

What's even more concerning is how they billed him as a PP specialist....he sucks at that too. When given the opportunity, Petro has been just fine on the PP. They could have went with him and 4 forwards then PP2 with Parayko and Dunn, Parayko parked for 1 timers. Faulks best asset is his shot and he's rarely set up to use it
You consinder Petro will walk and that's reason we acquire Faulk?
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
You consinder Petro will walk and that's reason we acquire Faulk?
Maybe......still doesn't explain the extention. Honestly, nothing does. We've got alot of hockey left for Faulk to get his shit together.....but right now, if this is the product, the Blues are f***ed
 

Blueston

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 4, 2016
18,958
19,680
Houston, TX
Don't understand all the hate for Faulk. His defensive game has been strong and he is quite good in transition. But I guess he is first guy who made a mistake this year that ended up in back of net.
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
Don't understand all the hate for Faulk. His defensive game has been strong and he is quite good in transition. But I guess he is first guy who made a mistake this year that ended up in back of net.
Your idea of strong defense is odd. He's ok for an OFD but I wouldn't call it strong. He's fine 1 on 1...but as others have said, he gets burned in zone coverage. His extention would be my guess as to why people are short with him. He's getting paid like a high end 2nd pairing guy and playing like a...well idk, not that.
 

Blueston

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 4, 2016
18,958
19,680
Houston, TX
Your idea of strong defense is odd. He's ok for an OFD but I wouldn't call it strong. He's fine 1 on 1...but as others have said, he gets burned in zone coverage. His extention would be my guess as to why people are short with him. He's getting paid like a high end 2nd pairing guy and playing like a...well idk, not that.
I get that he has had a few hiccups adjusting to our system, but from where I sit his 1-on-1 D play has been outstanding. Just seems like folks taking out their frustrations with Petro contract situation out on Faulk.
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
31,359
8,734
I get that he has had a few hiccups adjusting to our system, but from where I sit his 1-on-1 D play has been outstanding. Just seems like folks taking out their frustrations with Petro contract situation out on Faulk.
Possible, but that should be directed at Army. Still though, the on ice product isn't great imo. He's being feed 20min a night and I dont find it to be high quality. All we can do is wait and see but prior to the season Cane fans predicted disappointment.
 

67Blues

Got it for Bobby
Mar 22, 2013
4,551
4,894
Section 111
I get that he has had a few hiccups adjusting to our system, but from where I sit his 1-on-1 D play has been outstanding. Just seems like folks taking out their frustrations with Petro contract situation out on Faulk.
Faulk is a good #2 RHD, but with the Blues, we already have Parayko filling that slot who does a much better job. I don't dog Faulk for being Faulk, I dog Army for doing this deal for no apparent reason. I still think this is all geared towards the expansion draft and I'll stick to that.
 

Reality Czech

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
4,921
7,855
I get that he has had a few hiccups adjusting to our system, but from where I sit his 1-on-1 D play has been outstanding. Just seems like folks taking out their frustrations with Petro contract situation out on Faulk.

I tend to agree with you. Aside from last night's horrible error, his defense has been fine in my opinion. Most of our D has had a few hiccups this year, and fans may be focusing on his mistakes more than other guys because of the extension. He's under a microscope.

The reason I'm frustrated by Faulk is his lack of offense. He's had a few nice passes here and there but I expected more than this. If he's not contributing more on offense he ain't worth the money he's going to be paid. Hope he can find another gear soon.
 

Stlblue50

Registered User
Apr 17, 2019
685
503
I'm starting lose my faith on Faulk. More I see him more I've seen errors which aren't acceptable and not even closed enough for guy who got 6.500mill.$ x 7-years contract. This contract starts to look even worse day by day and it hasn't even started. Jeeeezzz. :facepalm:
Eddy was way under appreciated with the Blues. It always showed potential as a young damn. He had that very good playoffs back in 2017 and then followed it up with his best season in 2017-18. The Blues missed the playoffs by a point and Army screwed him over with a 1 year contract. Then he had is worse season last year and we trade him.

I’m sure he was pissed at the weak contracts handed out. Now we traded 1 of our 2 tough defenders for another powder puff.
 

Ranksu

Crotch Academy ftw
Sponsor
Apr 28, 2014
19,704
9,328
Lapland
Could there be problem that Army acquire in his mind offensive guy and he's paid now like 2nd pair guy so Chief is 'forced' to use Faulk high minutes like powerplay which is fine, but 2nd pair minutes is odd how he has played. Now we face problem we need to use him more and it affects pair shuffle where we've break down best shutdown d-pair Jbo - Parayko and Parayko is forced to play his offside.

To me looks like this move Faulk has bring problems than solutions and help which was Army's main point when he traded Eddy to Faulk.

Have to say this Army - "no trade is better than bad trade", or Hitch, -" don't break what aint broken".
 

BlueDream

Registered User
Aug 30, 2011
25,785
14,199
Faulk does need to provide more offense. As well as Sanford and Thomas.

There are others that can be named too but those are the main 3 that are hurting us by not producing.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

  • Sydney Swans @ Hawthorn Hawks
    Sydney Swans @ Hawthorn Hawks
    Wagers: 6
    Staked: $6,201.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Inter Milan vs Torino
    Inter Milan vs Torino
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $1,752.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Metz vs Lille
    Metz vs Lille
    Wagers: 2
    Staked: $220.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Cádiz vs Mallorca
    Cádiz vs Mallorca
    Wagers: 2
    Staked: $240.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Bologna vs Udinese
    Bologna vs Udinese
    Wagers: 3
    Staked: $265.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:

Ad

Ad