Confirmed with Link: Faulk & 5th to STL for Edmundson, Bokk, 2021 7th

[simon IC]

The longer Pietrangelo goes unsigned the more I think Faulk was brought in as his replacement. I know it sounds paranoid, but there is good reason to think Armstrong knows more than we do.

 

[Honeycutt]

The longer Pietrangelo goes unsigned the more I think Faulk was brought in as his replacement. I know it sounds paranoid, but there is good reason to think Armstrong knows more than we do.

Your paranoid.. but it does provide some risk management for next year if petro for some crazy reason is not resigned.

 

[STL fan in MN]

If Army knows Petro is walking, the Faulk deal makes sense. If Army knows he can get <insert amazing package here> in exchange for one of his top-D, then the Faulk deal makes sense. If any number of reasonable, carefully-considered, educated decisions were come to leading to the Faulk signing, then the Faulk deal makes sense. Hell, if it didn't make sense in the eyes of the decision-makers it obviously wouldn't have been done...so there's obviously more to the situation than meets the eye. I don't know that I'm willing to go so far as say this is the first step in the series of brilliant moves to come which will prove that Armstrong is playing 4-dimensional chess, while we all look like fools questioning the move at the time, but I will say that he's earned the benefit of the doubt with this move after delivering the Cup, and until Pietrangelo is re-signed this seems like a wise insurance policy in the event of a worst-case scenario.

After watching Petro-Parayko-Shattenkirk get disbanded over money, it's tough to imagine the Blues going down the same path when Petro-Parayko-Faulk will end up being even more costly once the 2 horses are re-upped. So, there's obviously a plan in place, even if it is just to tell Faulk to learn to love playing his off-side, but it's a bit harsh to call the move "stupid and unnecessary" without knowing the circumstances that ultimately led to the decision to acquire and extend a guy who doesn't seem needed *today*.

I think what it comes down to to me is I just don’t value Faulk all that highly. Of course Army knows more than us and I’d reason to agree Faulk was brought in as insurance in the event Petro walks...but I don’t see Faulk being worth $6.5M. If we’re going to overpay a d-man and do it longterm, I’d prefer to do it on one that’s currently one of the top-10 d-men on the planet (IMO of course) in Petro than a middling 2nd pairing caliber guy like Faulk.

I get the insurance aspect but I just don’t agree Faulk being that insurance and it being at that price was a good idea. And I generally agree with the way Army operates. I just think this move took on needless risk. There had to be way less risky ways to improve the team and even provide some insurance to the RD position in the event that Petro leaves than commit to an on d-men for big money for 8 years.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

But the trade DID come with a 7 year extension.

I doubt many people, if anyone, would argue Eddie is better than Faulk but that doesn’t make it a good move.

To me, it was way unnecessary risk to trade for a guy that plays a position we’re already deep at and pay him a lot and commit to him for 8 years. Hoping that bad contract can somehow be worked around in the future was just a stupid and unnecessary risk to take IMO.

I disagree with you on the risk. Had we not traded for Faulk and both Petro and Edmundson walked next year where would we be.

Dunn - Parayko
xxxx - xxxx
xxxx - Bortuzzo

A lot of holes in the rooster to fill.

Now with Faulk Trade

Dunn - Parayko
xxxx - Faulk
xxxx - Bortuzzo

Much more manageable. This trade if viewed just as a barrier to signing Petro long term seems risky. However, at the time Armstrong pulled the trigger on the trade, Petro was an unknown.

When viewed in that light the true risk was not doing something to shore up the defense long term prior to next off season. Would a deal come up mid season better than Faulk? Also a risk? Can you fit Petro in long term and Faulk? Also a risk?

I agree the extension, and hoping it work out bring down the glimmer of the trade. However, I think there are a lot of teams in the league that would of loved to have Faulk at the price Army paid. I mean he is a RHD, always a valuable assets. He would be first pairing on many crappy teams in the league and second pairing on the better. Actually, it’s very similar to the JBO trade in both age, skills, and in how much we gave up for him. Also in contract as well.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

I think what it comes down to to me is I just don’t value Faulk all that highly. Of course Army knows more than us and I’d reason to agree Faulk was brought in as insurance in the event Petro walks...but I don’t see Faulk being worth $6.5M. If we’re going to overpay a d-man and do it longterm, I’d prefer to do it on one that’s currently one of the top-10 d-men on the planet (IMO of course) in Petro than a middling 2nd pairing caliber guy like Faulk.

I get the insurance aspect but I just don’t agree Faulk being that insurance and it being at that price was a good idea. And I generally agree with the way Army operates. I just think this move took on needless risk. There had to be way less risky ways to improve the team and even provide some insurance to the RD position in the event that Petro leaves than commit to an on d-men for big money for 8 years.

Sorry didn’t see this before I replied above. I see your point now.

I agree that a less risky way would have been to talk with Petros agent sooner. If he got Petro signed in July, then traded Edmundson for an LHD would of been less risky. Maybe he tried to move Eddy, and failed to find trade that made us better?

Does anyone know why he waited until Season started to talk with Scheen and Petros agents in Toronto?

 

[Celtic Note]

If Petro walks, it’s probably going to be time for a hefty retool.

I cannot imagine doing any real playoff damage with Parayko and Faulk as our 1-2 punch. We are not good enough offensively to pull off a Penguins type run.

 

[Stealth JD]

If Petro walks, it’s probably going to be time for a hefty retool.

I cannot imagine doing any real playoff damage with Parayko and Faulk as our 1-2 punch. We are not good enough offensively to pull off a Penguins type run.

Exactly. So if you think theres a chance he could walk, how could you not consider trading him...for the long-term benefit of the club? Having already won a Cup, does that make it easier or harder to trade your captain? Pietrangelo’s got a chance to stick around. But if he hasn’t committed to doing so by the trade deadline...?

Yikes!

 

[Celtic Note]

Exactly. So if you think theres a chance he could walk, how could you not consider trading him...for the long-term benefit of the club? Having already won a Cup, does that make it easier or harder to trade your captain? Pietrangelo’s got a chance to stick around. But if he hasn’t committed to doing so by the trade deadline...?

Yikes!

You can certainly consider it.

I am still wondering why we traded for Faulk. He doesn’t solve a potential hole in Petro leaving. He is the wrong hand. He is overpriced for the length of term, despite being a pretty good player, but nowhere close to good enough to deserve such a contract.

it’s just seems like a very sort term move.

 

[simon IC]

What really bothers me, is that our two top RD are having to switch to their off-sides, and pairings are being juggled, just so we can find a fit for Faulk. It is like they are trying to justify the trade and contract by trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. As has been previously stated, Faulk needs to learn to play LD or get used to third pairing minutes on the right. He can make up minutes on the PP. And before we get any sarcastic comments about Faulk being a third pairing D, that is exactly what he is on this team. There is absolutely no way he should be getting more minutes than Pietrangelo or Parayko.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

What really bothers me, is that our two top RD are having to switch to their off-sides, and pairings are being juggled, just so we can find a fit for Faulk. It is like they are trying to justify the trade and contract by trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. As has been previously stated, Faulk needs to learn to play LD or get used to third pairing minutes on the right. He can make up minutes on the PP. And before we get any sarcastic comments about Faulk being a third pairing D, that is exactly what he is on this team. There is absolutely no way he should be getting more minutes than Pietrangelo or Parayko.

If we're winning games, he absolutely should get similar, if not more minutes than both of them. Both Petro and Parayko logged over 650 minutes in the playoffs, if we can cut their minutes in the regular season without hurting team performance by utilizing Faulk more, then that absolutely needs to happen to keep those two as fresh as possible come April.

 

[Brian39]

Sorry didn’t see this before I replied above. I see your point now.

I agree that a less risky way would have been to talk with Petros agent sooner. If he got Petro signed in July, then traded Edmundson for an LHD would of been less risky. Maybe he tried to move Eddy, and failed to find trade that made us better?

Does anyone know why he waited until Season started to talk with Scheen and Petros agents in Toronto?

I'd wager my next 10 years of salary that those were not the 'start' of talks. We'll never know the real answer about when talks started, because there is absolutely zero reason for either side of the negotiation to actually make that info public. We may get some "leaked" information about the negotiations in order to try and drive the media narrative but neither side is going to be candid about the actual negotiation process.

The Newport Management Group represents two players who were given contracts by the Blues over the summer (Fabbri and Eddy) and Fabbri is represented by the same individual agent who represented Petro. Army was absolutely in frequent communication with Petro's representation over the summer and there is absolutely no chance that there weren't conversations about Petro at that time. At the end of the day, there is a fuzzy line between discussions and formal negotiations. Discussions happen all the time, but it takes two sides willing to come to the table for formal negotiations to begin.

If I were Petro's agent, I wouldn't be willing to come to the table over the summer unless my informal discussions with Army suggested that the opening offer was going to be market value. I have 29 other clients and my firm has 187 total clients. The client we are talking about just won the Stanley Cup and is experiencing a higher level of national fame/hype than he ever has before. He also has 3 babies at home that haven't had his undivided attention in 9 months. I'm not calling him up to get him on board with serious negotiations unless the baseline offer conveyed is worth $75+ mil. Even if I know with 100% certainty that my client will eventually accept a $60 mil contract to stay in St. Louis, there is absolutely no reason for me to cut in to his very brief offseason to get that deal done. That deal will be there in October, November, December, January or February. Unless we are talking about true "UFA market value" in the offseason, I'm telling the Blues "my client wants to focus on celebrating his biggest career accomplishment with his family. You guys are in Toronto in early October, let's sit down for a preliminary negotiation then."

 

[Brian39]

Exactly. So if you think theres a chance he could walk, how could you not consider trading him...for the long-term benefit of the club? Having already won a Cup, does that make it easier or harder to trade your captain? Pietrangelo’s got a chance to stick around. But if he hasn’t committed to doing so by the trade deadline...?

Yikes!

Because we live in the real world and not an EA game. Petro has a full NTC and we are trying to repeat as Cup champs. He has zero reason to waive that NTC and risk costing himself millions of dollars on his next deal if he struggles in a new system. He has zero reason to live in a different city than his family for 4 months or relocate his entire family knowing that he will likely be moving again over the summer. The Blues would get absolutely killed by our fanbase if they throw the towel in on this season while we are defending Cup champs.

Petro has every reason to want to play this entire season in St. Louis. Assuming he has decided not to stay here long term, remaining in St. Louis this year is 100% his best avenue to the best contract offers as a UFA. He's not waiving his NTC.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

My advice for the Pietro contract talks is to just ignore it. That’s something to worry about later. Or even better not worry about at all because that’s someone else’s job and also we just won a Cup so who cares.

 

[Ranksu]

I could see Pietro playing his hometown like Tavares. They both have played earlier together.

Chapter in Blues has complited. Now play hometown and bring Cup in Toronto.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

I could see Pietro playing his hometown like Tavares. They both have played earlier together.

Chapter in Blues has complited. Now play hometown and bring Cup in Toronto.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Faulk seems like he's really settling into the system now. Lead the team in TOI and had 3.5min more even strength minutes than Petro/Parayko

 

[Blueston]

Faulk seems like he's really settling into the system now. Lead the team in TOI and had 3.5min more even strength minutes than Petro/Parayko

He got extra ES time tonight bc he wasn’t tired from killing off the penalties he took.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

He got extra ES time tonight bc he wasn’t tired from killing off the penalties he took.

He's not a part of the main two pairings for the PK, so he wouldn't be getting much SH ice time anyways

 

[Blueston]

He's not a part of the main two pairings for the PK, so he wouldn't be getting much SH ice time anyways

Yes, but that wasn’t really the point.

 

[DoubleK81]

I could see Pietro playing his hometown like Tavares. They both have played earlier together.

Chapter in Blues has complited. Now play hometown and bring Cup in Toronto.

There is no way Toronto is in on Petro. Even if he were to give a hefty hometown discount, They would have about 50% of their cap dedicated to 4 players, with what is rated as a bottom 10 prospect pool in the league to fill the remaining roster. Even if you ignore all that, they have 1 d-man on contract past this season. ONE. Toronto is going to be in the worst cap-hell from this point forward, it's honestly amazing.

 

[MissouriMook]

There is no way Toronto is in on Petro. Even if he were to give a hefty hometown discount, They would have about 50% of their cap dedicated to 4 players, with what is rated as a bottom 10 prospect pool in the league to fill the remaining roster. Even if you ignore all that, they have 1 d-man on contract past this season. ONE. Toronto is going to be in the worst cap-hell from this point forward, it's honestly amazing.

I agree that they are going to be in cap hell soon, but I disagree that they won't be addressing their defensive needs with a big contract. They just need to move one of the high dollar forwards, with Nylander being the most likely. At some point the worm needs to turn and they need to invest some money in their blueline, and their best case scenario in doing so is with a premium talent who is willing to take less money to play there. I'm not sure Petro is that guy, but I don't think anyone can say for sure either that he isn't.

 

[DoubleK81]

I agree that they are going to be in cap hell soon, but I disagree that they won't be addressing their defensive needs with a big contract. They just need to move one of the high dollar forwards, with Nylander being the most likely. At some point the worm needs to turn and they need to invest some money in their blueline, and their best case scenario in doing so is with a premium talent who is willing to take less money to play there. I'm not sure Petro is that guy, but I don't think anyone can say for sure either that he isn't.

Even if they move Nylander and sign a big $ D-man, they still have the same situation that I described earlier. Barrie is due for a raise and they''re not going to just let him walk. Ceci is a solid d-man that certainly won't be any cheaper. Their #1 prospect is in fact a d-man, so theres 1 cheap contract they can count on for a couple years. So they have 2 d-men that are almost guaranteed raises ( Barrie, Ceci ), along with trying to sign a big ticket d-man would further complicate the cap issues.

There's no way they can bank on someone being willing to take less, because NO ONE has been willing to take less. Stamkos wouldn't come there for less, Nylander and Marner both held out because they wouldn't take less, Tavares got market value to come home, Matthews is the highest paid on the team. To even hint that Petro would be willing to uproot his family to go home for less than market value is crazy. If I could actually bet somewhere on whether he would sign in Toronto, I'd be putting heavy money against it.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I could see Pietro playing his hometown like Tavares. They both have played earlier together.

Chapter in Blues has complited. Now play hometown and bring Cup in Toronto.

Well look at that!

I agree with Ranksu.

 

[Brian39]

I could see Pietro playing his hometown like Tavares. They both have played earlier together.

Chapter in Blues has complited. Now play hometown and bring Cup in Toronto.

Toronto just doesn't have the cap space for Petro. Even a $10+ mil discount from his market value is a contract that they can't remotely afford. They currently have $15.9 mil in cap space to fill 12 roster spots next year. Let's say they bring Petro in at an absurd discount of $7 mil AAV and the cap goes up $3 mil. That gives them less than $12 mil to fill 11 more roster spots, including 4 more every day D men. So pay your 3rd D man $2.5 mil and your 4th D man $1.5 mil. You have a terrible 2nd pairing (or split up Petro/Reilly and roll two extremely mediocre pairings) and then you have $8 mil to fill 9 roster spots. 7 guys at $750k each would let you splurge on two more guys at about $1.3 mil a piece. Oh by the way, your starting goalie is a UFA the next summer, will be due a large raise and no one making more than $1 mil will be coming off the books. So Andersson walks and now you still have a crappy defense and need to find a bargain starter. Good luck with that.

Toronto is in cap hell already. They can't afford to take on another big contract. Realistically, they probably need to move Nylander just to build a halfway competent blue line next year. They are paying their top 3 forwards $33.527 mil. That's slightly more than the combined AAVs of ROR, Tarasenko, Schenn, Parayko and Faulk next season when extensions kick in. They are paying Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander and Reilly a combined $45.489 mil. Assuming we give Petro $9 mil a year, that's more than we would have tied up in ROR, Tarasenko, Schenn, Petro, Parayko, Faulk, and Sunny.

Toronto has zero ability to sign Petro even at a large, large discount.

 

[Brian39]

I agree that they are going to be in cap hell soon, but I disagree that they won't be addressing their defensive needs with a big contract. They just need to move one of the high dollar forwards, with Nylander being the most likely. At some point the worm needs to turn and they need to invest some money in their blueline, and their best case scenario in doing so is with a premium talent who is willing to take less money to play there. I'm not sure Petro is that guy, but I don't think anyone can say for sure either that he isn't.

Swap Petro for Nylander. Assume Nylander is moved and Petro takes the biggest hometown discount of this CBA at Nylander's $6.962 AAV.

That leaves them with just $16 mil (plus whatever cap increase) to fill a dozen roster spots, 4 of which still need to be every day D men. How on Earth would they build a competent blue line around Petro/Reilly with that little money? Getting replacement-level top 4 D men from outside your organization is going to cost money. Muzzin was $4 mil. Ceci was $4.5 mil. They got a year of Barrie at $2.75 mil by getting the Avs to retain. So what are we talking here? A minimum of $6.5 mil to fill up those two top 4 spots? And that's assuming that they trade numerous assets in order to get good contracts and/or retention. 2 years of Muzzin cost the Leafs a 1st rounder and a couple former 2nd round picks. 1 year of Barrie with salary retained (and Kerfoot) cost the Leafs Kadri and a 3rd. Swapping Zaitsev for Ceci cost the Leafs Connor Brown. Other than Nylander, the Leafs don't have any NHL players that they can afford to move at this point and they are already down a 1st round pick (this year's or 2021s). So in order to get two top 4 caliber D men at around $6.5 mil, there goes all of the assets Nylander was traded for. You sure as hell aren't getting two adequate top 4 D men in UFA for just $6.5 mil and I don't see anyone in their system ready to play a top 4 role for a contender. Fill Nylander's hole with a $3 mil forward and they are sitting with 9 more roster spots to fill with less than $10 mil in cap space.

Nylander needs to get moved, but the savings of his deal can't be spent on one guy. They need to turn that $7 mil in space into 2 D men (or at least 1 D man plus another $2+ mil of another D man's salary). Swapping Nylander's salary for a D man making equal money still prevents them from building a competent blue line.

The cap hell for Toronto is insane this summer. All of their D besides Reilly hit UFA. Muzzin is going to make well over the $4 mil hit he is making now. Barrie is going to make significantly more then the $2.75 mil they are paying him now. Ceci is going to make more than the $4.5 they are paying him now. Giving Petro even $7 mil AAV prohibits them from extending any of their current top 4 D men.