i know all deadline deals involving vancouver ends up horribly. last year was decent hamonic for a third. dermott for a third motte for a 4th? i beleive.
Fantasy GM Thread | The One Where We Inch Closer to the TDL
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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Boeser for Holtz, regardless of any other factors, sounds like a pipe dream.
But let’s pretend it’s real. That the Devils would even be willing to put Holtz on the table indicates that they aren’t confident he’ll be able to provide enough offense.
It also says that Boeser has more value than many here suspect. I actually think this is true. League-wide, media perception, is that Boeser is a good 2nd liner that’s slightly overpaid and his poor performance is a product of this sad sack organization.
If draft pick compensation is the hold-up then the simple thing to do is make it conditional. Start at a 4th, or whatever, and improve it upon each round.
Now the Devils don’t have the capspace to take on Boeser, even with retention. So there would need to be another moving part. Proposed earlier, Canucks also take on Johnson’s contract. While buried, he still counts as 2.275m. Devils currently have just over 2m in LTIR space. Boeser retained at 30% drops the cap hit down to 4.665m. Holtz’s contract + Johnsson + LTIR space is equal to 5.169m.
That may be the actual hang-up. Retention + taking on a bad contract = additional compensation from the Canucks perspective.
But let’s pretend it’s real. That the Devils would even be willing to put Holtz on the table indicates that they aren’t confident he’ll be able to provide enough offense.
It also says that Boeser has more value than many here suspect. I actually think this is true. League-wide, media perception, is that Boeser is a good 2nd liner that’s slightly overpaid and his poor performance is a product of this sad sack organization.
If draft pick compensation is the hold-up then the simple thing to do is make it conditional. Start at a 4th, or whatever, and improve it upon each round.
Now the Devils don’t have the capspace to take on Boeser, even with retention. So there would need to be another moving part. Proposed earlier, Canucks also take on Johnson’s contract. While buried, he still counts as 2.275m. Devils currently have just over 2m in LTIR space. Boeser retained at 30% drops the cap hit down to 4.665m. Holtz’s contract + Johnsson + LTIR space is equal to 5.169m.
That may be the actual hang-up. Retention + taking on a bad contract = additional compensation from the Canucks perspective.
i can't believe that deal framework is legit
30% retention on boeser is less than his buyout cost next year alone. johnsson's deal expires this offseason so there's no real downside to taking it on. the canucks would be getting holtz effectively for free and he's buryable even if he doesn't work out or is damaged goods
i'm willing to believe boeser has some value but the reports earlier this year that the team gave his agent permission to seek a deal makes me think teams aren't exactly beating down their door. why on earth would they risk blowing up what looks like a lifeline from heaven for getting out from boeser's deal over getting an additional pick back?
30% retention on boeser is less than his buyout cost next year alone. johnsson's deal expires this offseason so there's no real downside to taking it on. the canucks would be getting holtz effectively for free and he's buryable even if he doesn't work out or is damaged goods
i'm willing to believe boeser has some value but the reports earlier this year that the team gave his agent permission to seek a deal makes me think teams aren't exactly beating down their door. why on earth would they risk blowing up what looks like a lifeline from heaven for getting out from boeser's deal over getting an additional pick back?
Doubly so when they’ve said and it’s been reported how they know they’ll have to take a loss. Holtz + Johnsson for Boeser (retained) isn’t even close to a loss.
Fully understand. the idea from NJ's standpoint..
Was just questioning the poster who was actually seeking the best offer for a free agent with NHL experience who could end up the best useful player who could end up a Canuck next season, as I understood the conversation going on among the group of Vancouver posters, on a cheap contract.. IMO the pick is going to be a very late one and probably not produce much at all in the way of an NHL player.
Holtz for Boeser (2nd round in value) Cap dump JOhnsson (3rd round to dump that contract) and 2.5 mill retained (which is about a 2nd rounder) kind of makes sense if you break it up that way.
Basically Holtz is worth a 1st and a 3rd which is what the Canucks paid for JT Miller (50 point player at the time)
Basically Holtz is worth a 1st and a 3rd which is what the Canucks paid for JT Miller (50 point player at the time)
kanucks25
Chris Tanev #1 Fan
I imagine the Canucks feel like Boeser doesn't have negative value, therefore they want compensation if the other team wants them to retain.
And the Canucks don't want to retain in general because they are trying to open up cap space ASAP, so they won't retain for cheap if they do eventually accept.
Not sure if it's realistic, though. Is there a team out there willing to take on Boeser for like a 2nd straight up?
And the Canucks don't want to retain in general because they are trying to open up cap space ASAP, so they won't retain for cheap if they do eventually accept.
Not sure if it's realistic, though. Is there a team out there willing to take on Boeser for like a 2nd straight up?
Buresflyingelbow
VanCity
- Feb 19, 2018
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Holtz is a guy who seems more valuable due to draft pedigree. I’m not saying he won’t become a good player but he’d be on NJ already if he was going to be great. The fact he is in trade chatter and not a ELC contract producing on the roster speaks volumes.
Hansen
tyler motte simp
holtz is basically the same player (in terms of development and progression) as podkolzin. very underwhelming for his draft position but still has a bit of promise as a possible middle 6 winger in the nhl
Well…because the origin of this rumour is that it’s made up by random Twitter person #18.
Nona Di Giuseppe
Registered User
its not that complicated indeed.
maybe you'll get back a mid-20s almost ppg game winger in return
like, what does "overpayment" look like to you that would realistically happen that puts the Canucks in a better position than this current contract ? No one is gving a young RHD.. soo.. ?
Nona Di Giuseppe
Registered User
Absolutely no one was giving a first of two 2nds for Kuzmenko.
Every conversation would be like "His first year in the NHL... playing with Pettersson.. yadda yadda".
Moving any picks this year is dumb and I don't see many going. These guys remember 2003 where guys like Weber, Bergeron, Backes went in the 2nd round.
theguardianII
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- Jan 30, 2020
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From the Rolling Stones song;
"Tiiiime goes by,
so slowly,
Tiiiime is on my side
yes it is"
This TDL time is like a little kid waiting for Christmas day or watching water boil, takes forever
"Tiiiime goes by,
so slowly,
Tiiiime is on my side
yes it is"
This TDL time is like a little kid waiting for Christmas day or watching water boil, takes forever
From this management group, I am not holding my breath on anything big..When all is said and done,,Horvat will still be a Canuck.
Who wants any of our crap,,these guys have been a shit show all year,,we would have to add ,to get rid of Myers,Oel,,Boeser, etc,,
Canucks LB
My Favourite, Gone too soon, RIP Luc, We miss you
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Carlo is not a realistic piece, why would Boston do this, especially considering how good they have been?
He’s one of the best shut down D in the league
He’s one of the best shut down D in the league
Concussion issues.
It would be a very odd trade given the Bruins have nothing in the pipeline to replace him.
Before the season began I suggested Carlo as part of a Horvat return if they didn’t want a futures-based package. I didn’t realize how many concussions he had at the time, however.
Canucker
Go Hawks!
I would be surprised if Boston actually had serious interest in Horvat unless they could get him on the cheap...I'd bet they're just playing chicken and trying to drive up the price for Eastern teams.
depending on what boston do at the deadline and in the offseason i can see carlo being expendable for them. clifton is 90% as good while being much cheaper. he already plays more than carlo at even strength (although that is probably because carlo spends more time penalty killing)
boston's cap situation is not great going into the offseason. they have about 20 mil in cap space but only 5 forwards signed with pastrnak being the big name that needs a new deal
i do think they're far more likely to move him in the offseason than at the deadline though so him being part of a horvat deal probably isn't happening
boston's cap situation is not great going into the offseason. they have about 20 mil in cap space but only 5 forwards signed with pastrnak being the big name that needs a new deal
i do think they're far more likely to move him in the offseason than at the deadline though so him being part of a horvat deal probably isn't happening
Gurn
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- Jan 23, 2023
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A buyout of Garland will have a cap hit into the 2028/29 season-- 2 yrs @ $838,889, then 1 yr @ $1,838,889 and final 3 yrs @ $1,888,889.
OEL would go into the 2030/31 season ;
| 2023-24 | $10,500,000 | $8,250,000 | $0 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | $8,083,333 | $146,667 | $20,000 |
| 2024-25 | $8,000,000 | $8,250,000 | $0 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | $5,583,333 | $2,346,667 | $320,000 |
| 2025-26 | $5,250,000 | $8,250,000 | $0 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | $2,833,333 | $4,766,667 | $650,000 |
| 2026-27 | $5,250,000 | $8,250,000 | $0 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | $2,833,333 | $4,766,667 | $650,000 |
| 2027-28 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | -$2,416,667 | $2,126,667 | $290,000 |
| 2028-29 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | -$2,416,667 | $2,126,667 | $290,000 |
| 2029-30 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | -$2,416,667 | $2,126,667 | $290,000 |
| 2030-31 | $0 | $0 | $0 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | -$2,416,667 | $2,126,667 | $290,000 |
$14,791,336 in cap hit, spread over 8 yrs- for a guy to not play for you, then you have to figure out the cap hit of the guy that replaces him. and add it to the total cap hit.
Best case scenario, OEL decides to retire, but not many people walk away from that kind of money- $29 million over the next 4yrs.
with just under $70 mill in career earnings, maybe just maybe he does what Markus Naslund did- but I doubt it.
I think ‘take a loss’ means they know they’d have to retain or take a bad contract. And in this NJ proposal they’d be doing both. I think Holtz is worth more than that, but they’d be taking a loss on multiple fronts.
Obviously they’d get positive value if they retain 50% on him or some such.
Yes I've loooked this up before. OEL's buyout isn't a problem because he's playing replacement level hockey. It's inefficient to have a 7 million dollar player on your roster playing like a 1 million dollar player.
Garland is a 4 million dollar player at worst, so spending the mony to buy him out is stupid. He's a puck possession monster that has a muffin of a shot and unsurprisingly fits well with Miller and Horvat.
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