Speculation: Fantasy GM and Rumor Roundup Thread | "Trader Jim" gearing up for TDL

[VanillaCoke]

Trade Pearson asap

 

[Lindgren]

its not just Horvat it’s the entire team. We’re soft, weak, slow, lack defensive play, no forecheck, no grit, no toughness it’s not just one or two players, the entire make up needs to be overhauled. Although I’m in favour of trading Horvat and Miller, I also think their our best players and the type we need more of. Like it or not if we really want to compete for a cup we need a rebuild, this Bennings made team is horrible. I have 2 untouchables Demko and Hughes, I really like Hoglander, Pods and Garland as well. Schenn is worth holding onto because we need what he brings.

Lots of people (it seems like lots to me, at least) have been saying things like the bolded, so I'm not trying to single you out. But Schenn won't bring "what he brings" by the time the Canucks are a contender, if the rebuild goes well. If he's useful now, he's only helping the team to be mediocre.

A similar logic comes up when people respond to the idea of trading Myers with "who do you replace him with"? Replace him with Noah Juulsen, or somebody picked up on waivers, or any number of tweeners available for a minimal price. Yes, the team will be worse, till the young assets it gets back from the big deals and the draft picks acquired and retained start moving into the roster, and that rebuild thing is genuinely underway.

God, it would be such a relief to be cheering for a team that was making moves that made sense, that was developing in a logical way, that wasn't living day-to-day.

 

[iFan]

Lots of people (it seems like lots to me, at least) have been saying things like the bolded, so I'm not trying to single you out. But Schenn won't bring "what he brings" by the time the Canucks are a contender, if the rebuild goes well. If he's useful now, he's only helping the team to be mediocre.

A similar logic comes up when people respond to the idea of trading Myers with "who do you replace him with"? Replace him with Noah Juulsen, or somebody picked up on waivers, or any number of tweeners available for a minimal price. Yes, the team will be worse, till the young assets it gets back from the big deals and the draft picks acquired and retained start moving into the roster, and that rebuild thing is genuinely underway.

God, it would be such a relief to be cheering for a team that was making moves that made sense, that was developing in a logical way, that wasn't living day-to-day.

we need the toughness and grit he brings, so it doesn’t matter to me if he’s not useful in 2, 3, 4 years when we rise back up. The point of keeping Schenn isn’t about being useful when we can compete again it’s about having some grit and toughness on the team.

 

[m9]

If you can trade Schenn for a 2nd rounder or a decent prospect then you do it. This team literally has 4 bottom-pairing RHD, so just punt as many as you can for assets.

They need to just start accumulating picks & prospects. The team has a draft pick deficit and almost nothing coming up in the system. Any 2022 2nd rounder you trade for will immediately be a top5 prospect in this system the second they are drafted and that's an awful place for a bad team like this to be in.

 

[Lindgren]

we need the toughness and grit he brings, so it doesn’t matter to me if he’s not useful in 2, 3, 4 years when we rise back up. The point of keeping Schenn isn’t about being useful when we can compete again it’s about having some grit and toughness on the team.

What will that grit and toughness from Schenn help the Canucks to accomplish over the rest of this season and then the one remaining year on his contract?

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

And Colorado executed a near-perfect tank -> contender in 3 years while we were doing whatever Benning was doing. Their 48 point season was in 2017 and they were a top team by 2020. All the while we were sitting on our thumbs durrr maybe Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel will get us back to the playoffs next year. They had a bunch of money tied up in guys like Soderberg and Beauchemin. Matt Duchene was pretty much their Horvat. They didn't miss the playoffs again after taking a 1-year hit in 2017.

I see what you mean but that Avs team had McKinnon, Landeskog and Rantanen as blue-chip U23 pieces to build around going forward. The best Canucks in that same situation had, uh, Horvat and Hutton? It was always going to take longer for Vancouver.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

we need the toughness and grit he brings, so it doesn’t matter to me if he’s not useful in 2, 3, 4 years when we rise back up. The point of keeping Schenn isn’t about being useful when we can compete again it’s about having some grit and toughness on the team.

This team doesn’t need grit and toughness. It doesn’t need anything actually, it just needs to be blown up so the future doesn’t suck as much as the present.

 

[Wry n Ginger]

When it comes to whatever any of these players gets traded for, keep in mind that JR has stated a few times that he would like to see his minor league/young players ferment more in the AHL before they come up and are placed into roles they are not ready for in the NHL. I would not be surprised to see players come in that are on the younger or rawer side and head to Abby for a year or two. If they bring in players that will need to replace whomever they get traded for they might not be ready. Ideally Hogz & Podz would have spent a year in the AHL before coming up to the Canucks.

 

[Canucker]

When it comes to whatever any of these players gets traded for, keep in mind that JR has stated a few times that he would like to see his minor league/young players ferment more in the AHL before they come up and are placed into roles they are not ready for in the NHL. I would not be surprised to see players come in that are on the younger or rawer side and head to Abby for a year or two. If they bring in players that will need to replace whomever they get traded for they might not be ready. Ideally Hogz & Podz would have spent a year in the AHL before coming up to the Canucks.

Well if thats the case they might want to consider changing things up at the AHL level as well...I don't think we can count on proper development at that level...at least their track record hasn't been all that good.

 

[M2Beezy]

I think it's so funny how rarely anyone mentions Patrik Allvin in these discussions. I can't think of another pro sports team where the AGMs unquestionably get more attention than the GM.

Who??

 

[Tomatoes11]

Listening to JR's interview on [email protected] stated that if you have a balanced team with a good goalie, and you make the playoffs, you have a good a chance as anybody to win the cup.(because of parity)....You don't necessarily have to be a powerhouse team...Basically saying that if you make the playoffs ,"anything can happen".

Which was interesting, because thats a saying that always gets chastised by the cynical posters here,...

I hope that’s not what he said or we are no better off than with dim unfortunately.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I hope that’s not what he said or we are no better off than with dim unfortunately.

He did say it, but ultimately it doesnt change JRs vision of building a long term contender...Again, when he was saying this, he was saying it in general terms, not specifically about the Canucks.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

At any rate, after thinking long and hard about it, here's how I fall on the Canucks roster detonation.

Sell: Miller, Horvat, Motte, Myers (retain on Myers if you have to - Myers with a $4M cap hit, eg, will have real value). All for picks/prospects. Don't accept any long-term money back (this season is okay, but past that, no).
Keep: Hughes, Pettersson, Garland, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Highmore, Lammikko, Burroughs, Schenn.
Dump: Hamonic, Pearson, Dickinson (if you can't find takers, then AHL. Yes, even Pearson - Canucks can't waste roster spots on low-ceiling players).

Boeser - if you can get him around ~$6M (either on a show-me deal, or something with term) keep him, otherwise sell.
OEL - we're stuck with him
Poolman - contract is probably untradeable, and he does have some value as a bottom pair PK specialist. don't mind keeping him around.

For the rest of this season, give long looks to Lockwood, Rathbone, and Martin. I'd also see what, if anything, Rempal/Dries/Di Giuseppe could do at the NHL leve. I'd also test how OEL and Hughes do playing the right side. If our off season RHD problem can become an off season LHD problem, that makes life a LOT easier. Also sign some European FAs and give them ice time (from the Olympics, I liked Petr Cehlarik's and Corban Knight's games a lot).

I'd try to sign Highmore, Lammikko, and Burroughs and to 3-year extensions between $1M and $1.5M, bargain contracts if they keep developing.

Next season:

xxx-Petey-xxx/Boeser
xxx-xxx-Garland
Podkolzin-xxx-Hoglander
Highmore-Lammikko-xxx

Hughes-yyyy
OEL-yyyy
Burroughs-Schenn
Rathbone-Poolman

Next season, every single open roster spot needs to be filled by young players with upsde, or a quality veteran that's a cap casualty on a good team (Eg, Kerfoot in TO might be a decent Horvat replacement for us), or a show-me free agent (look for a lot of unqualified RFAs to sign deals like these - in particular I've got my eye on Ethan Bear and Kailer Yamamoto).

The only type of UFA I would go for term for would a young-ish 3C type that could kill penalties (Andrew Copp, Nick Paul, etc). Otherwise don't give anyone term.

And of course it won't happen, but assuming we accumulate some picks I would really look at tendering some RFA offer-sheets. Would not mind a $4M flyer on Tim Liljegren (2nd round pick) or a $2M on Mathieu Joseph (3rd round pick).

 

[arttk]

That can't be right. Everyone keeps telling me that Pettersson = MacKinnon.

But yes, a bit of luck is required. We can increase our chances by hanging onto our draft picks.

Odds of Petey hitting Mackinnon’s level is still probably higher than Mackinnon hitting Mackinnon’s level based on their first 4 season. Odds being higher doesn’t mean he will hit it.
If he can’t put up 80ish points next season after a healthy off-season then yea we are f***ed unless we can luck into another 80+ point forward.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Further to Rutherford not minding the D...(while having great goaltending)

Unfortunately, it’s not that black and white. When we stop overcompensating and try to score 5 on 5 or at least draw penalties, those numbers are going straight back to hell with this squad.

Right now we have no choice.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Dont get assets for schenn or Burroughs on this 22nd place team because it needs toughness that cannot be found anywhere else...

How that makes sense to some is beyond me.

 

[wonton15]

Should be interesting what the implications of our short term direction will be on Pettersson’s next contract as well.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Just because he's a GM or not Jim Benning doesn't mean he's exempt from being wrong, even if that's what he did mean. I didn't get that vibe from the actual interview that whole "anything can happen" mentality, that was my interpretation. But besides the point, what team has actually left anyone feeling like "anything can happen" in the playoffs? LA & St. Louis? LA before the season started was a contender and in talks about teams that could make a run. Same thing with St. Louis, and in St. Louis' case before the season started I actually said if they get good goaltending, they were my favourite to win the Cup.

Sure, anything *could* happen in the playoffs, but Cinderella teams like Montreal who were not picked by anybody to do anything, the clock 100% will strike midnight. I can safely say that since I watched hockey that no team has ever lifted the Cup and before the season started, I did not have outside of my "contenders" list. And that's not me being a guru, it's just that very good teams are the ones that walk away with the thing.

I wasn’t sold on Boston or Carolina, they got extremely lucky ie Roloson injury in the finals and we all know how fluky dim and chirelli was.

But you are right, other than those two, every other one was legit since I started watching.

Unfortunately JR had to be attached to one of the flukes. Sigh…..just our luck if he actually believes that just get in crap……..

The StLouis thing is funny because the made the WCF recently and just traded the farm for O’Reilly and the dim fans used that as an example. And LA was just stacked lol

 

[m9]

Dont get assets for schenn or Burroughs on this 22nd place team because it needs toughness that cannot be found anywhere else...

How that makes sense to some is beyond me.

Anyone who is insisting the team needs to hold on Schenn has lost the plot. If you can extract value out of a depth player who will be aged out by this team does anything, you do it. They have 3 other guys (Hamonic, Burroughs, Poolman) who can provide 85% of what Schenn does anyway.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Odds of Petey hitting Mackinnon’s level is still probably higher than Mackinnon hitting Mackinnon’s level based on their first 4 season. Odds being higher doesn’t mean he will hit it.
If he can’t put up 80ish points next season after a healthy off-season then yea we are f***ed unless we can luck into another 80+ point forward.

Any kind of analysis like this omits the fact that McKinnon was 2 years younger than Pettersson when he started his NHL career.

Far likelier that Pettersson is another Clayton Keller.

 

[arttk]

Any kind of analysis like this omits the fact that McKinnon was 2 years younger than Pettersson when he started his NHL career.

Far likelier that Pettersson is another Clayton Keller.

I mean what other bets do we have?

 

[sting101]

I have zero issues moving Schenn but it has to be on his terms. He's earned that right

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Anyone who is insisting the team needs to hold on Schenn has lost the plot. If you can extract value out of a depth player who will be aged out by this team does anything, you do it. They have 3 other guys (Hamonic, Burroughs, Poolman) who can provide 85% of what Schenn does anyway.

If its a decent pick coming back I'd give it some thought, but if its for a 4th or something ...why bother....He's one RHD that meshes with Hughes (and they've tried a lot of players as his d partner ).

 

[MS]

The only other time I can recall a GM being ignored like this is when Greg Sherman was fired-but-not-fired by the Avs and replaced by Sakic/Roy, but retained his title.

Most people still think that George McPhee is the Vegas GM.

 

[m9]

If its a decent pick coming back I'd give it some thought, but if its for a 4th or something ...why bother....He's one RHD that meshes with Hughes (and they've tried a lot of players as his d partner ).

The "why bother" approach is the exact laziness that has ruined this franchise over the last 7 or 8 years. The return - if he's moved - will be better than a 4th.