Fan Patience and Rebuilding

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,370
54,896
This is very true, the key now is not to trade any picks and attempt to accumulate a few more before this years draft.

I think you have to look at it this way: if the Leafs want to win a cup this year, there's no way they can compete against the incumbent champions like Chicago, Los Angeles, perennial contenders like St. Louis, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Boston or the up and coming challengers like Tampa, Montreal, Anaheim, New York, Nashville, etc.

Their real competition is basically going to be Colorado, Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida etc. who are likely going to be peaking in five years time. You have to out draft, out build and develop those teams and rise up to be a real contender in that timeframe.
 

hfman

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
3,197
1,535
Rogers, Sportsnet, TSN and Bell all treat the Leafs like a tabloid curiosity. A little bit embarrassing when the coverage is so high profile and gossipy that our in-fighting is used up as the butt of so many jokes.

somebody here recently made the point that having the Leafs be the laughing stock of the NHL is more profitable than having them be a winner. I'm starting to jump aboard that notion. Being the biggest joke in the league (which they are) means they receive the most attention. Logical, right? Makes sense. And if they receive the most attention, it means they receive the most profits. People that love them will watch them to win. People that hate them will watch them to lose. People that love them after a win will flood social media after the game with positive comments. People that hate them after a loss will flood social media with negative comments. The buzz about "The Leafs" or "The Laffs", whichever it may be, is EVERYWHERE. Whether the Leafs win or lose, Rogers still wins. Keeping this team as losers is a way to keep the attention focused on them. We as a society love bad news, not good news. And the Leafs are ALWAYS bad news. So... keep them as bad news. Keep them pathetic, keep them losing. Their popularity will never be higher. You'll have 50% of fans loving them and trying to grab that dangling carrot, and you'll have the other 50% of fans hating them and spreading the hate, which keeps the attention focused on them.

No need to change a thing. The money's rolling in, so LOSING is their recipe for success. It makes no sense, right? Of course not. But hold on - if you're losing, and still raking in the most money in the league, then hell, DON'T CHANGE A THING, right? Why start winning and risk f-ing it up? No sir, keep this formula in place: lose and make $$$. That's always been the way for the Leafs, it's the only team in the league that can do it this way, and won't be changing. The other 29 teams can't rake in this kind of dough while icing a joke team, infact many others will go bankrupt with this forumla. Not us. We're blessed. We can ice a team of 5 waffles and an ice cream cone as our goalie and we'll still sell 'er out. In fact we could forfeit the entire season - just not show up to any of our home games - and still sell out. You'd be watching the visiting team score about 150 goals on our empty net of course, but wouldn't matter, we'd still sell 'er out.

To understand this utterly twisted train of thought, start thinking from a businessman's persepctive. If you can somehow sell a sh- product and still sell out, then you're one in a million and you know not to mess with success. Don't f- it up by changing your game plan. Your game plan is ALREADY a winner: you're selling out and making millions by selling garbage. What more can you ask for? You know how many other businessmen are selling quality goods but can't move anything off the shelves? Count your blessings... keep your formula and never change it until you're forced to change it.
 
Last edited:

Erdinger

Registered User
Oct 6, 2011
15,137
1,452
Toronto
somebody here recently made the point that having the Leafs be the laughing stock of the NHL is more profitable than having them be a winner.
Rogers and Bell probably make more money from charging advertisers higher fees because of the high ratings this gong show of a franchise creates for shows like Hockey Central discussing their ineptitude than if the Leafs were a reasonably well run operation as far as success on the ice was concerned.
 

King85Kong

Playoffs?
Nov 24, 2013
4,006
0
Toronto
Rogers and Bell probably make more money from charging advertisers higher fees because of the high ratings this gong show of a franchise creates for shows like Hockey Central discussing their ineptitude than if the Leafs were a reasonably well run operation as far as success on the ice was concerned.

Bell is the worst. Good luck trying to return their hardware. Can`t take it back to a Bell store, no drop off centres, only option is to have them send you packaging, then you have to go send it back to them by Currier. That`s if they even bother sending you the packaging at all. Horrible set up. Called Bell numerous times asking when my package will be dropped off and the lady on the phone is like Ya its been a problem. Really you think :facepalm: Not a surprise that the Leafs are a disaster, with poor customer service like that.
 

Tak7

Registered User
Nov 1, 2009
13,076
4,868
GTA or the UK
Rogers and Bell probably make more money from charging advertisers higher fees because of the high ratings this gong show of a franchise creates for shows like Hockey Central discussing their ineptitude than if the Leafs were a reasonably well run operation as far as success on the ice was concerned.

Exactly.

Because while the Leafs sell as a story, it's so much sexier and juicer to lead off with the Leafs-in-crisis angle.

They aren't entirely to blame - there's daily references here to hate pieces in newspapers and negative comments and stories about the Leafs on TV. The fact is, bashing on the Leafs gets people talking.

Damien Cox mastered it for years. Be hyper-critical of the team in the paper, piss off fans, get everyone talking about you and your article, and smile at all the attention you've just earned. Hating on the Leafs draws attention. We as fans are at fault.
 

PlietscherDassel

Registered User
Dec 3, 2009
1,424
77
I don't think we will ever see a rebuild with 2 or more years tanking and picking top3. They make more money by going into every season claiming they the Leafs are a playoffs team. And no matter how horrible the Leafs looked the season before lots of people will believe management if they give them some trade or free agent signing to be excited about. Thats just how it is. The closest think to tanking we will see is that the Leafs will sell before deadline if they are out of the playoff race but thats usually not enough to get a top 3 pick. This season is a perfect example. We will not make the playoffs but we already have too many points to get a top 5 pick and if our injured players come back we will start winning more games again, even after selling at deadline, and could end up not having a top 10 pick.
Our only hope is the lottery.

By the way, saying Leafs fans are patient enough for a rebuild is ridiculous. Some of us are, sure, but there is a very large group of fans and journalists that dump on every prospect that is not a playing like a superstar from the get-go. Look at the heat Kadri had to take over the years and some people even started to complain about Rielly, a very talented player that is actually playing very well for his age, this season. That behavior will not change just because Shanahan tells everyone that we are rebuilding because that just takes a away the pressure from the team as a unit while the ridiculous expectations regarding individual players, which is the much bigger problem, will be on se same level as usual.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,099
12,292
Leafs Home Board
Bell/Rogers are too big and too powerful and have too much invested to draft rebuild intentionally.

They have made promises and commitments to corporate sponsors, advertisers, TV rights purchasers, luxuary box suite owners and season ticket holders etc etc that they need to fulfill.

This really has very little to do with fan patience and rebuilding in their big picture of managing a fortune 500 company. They don't need to be trying only giving the appearance that they are and as long as the ACC remains sold out they keep churning along as business as usual.

The little guy looking for a free on-line stream to watch Leaf games is not their target market audience, the corporations that are buying their luxuary suites and boxes, or investing hundreds of thousands of $$$ in sponsorships and advertising are. They sort their priorities by Most Money ------> Least Money invested.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Rogers, Sportsnet, TSN and Bell all treat the Leafs like a tabloid curiosity. A little bit embarrassing when the coverage is so high profile and gossipy that our in-fighting is used up as the butt of so many jokes.

There has to be some illusion of separation between the media divisions and the sports entities or what little credibility they still hold would evaporate.
 

Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
22,456
7,319
Toronto
Bell is the worst. Good luck trying to return their hardware. Can`t take it back to a Bell store, no drop off centres, only option is to have them send you packaging, then you have to go send it back to them by Currier. That`s if they even bother sending you the packaging at all. Horrible set up. Called Bell numerous times asking when my package will be dropped off and the lady on the phone is like Ya its been a problem. Really you think :facepalm: Not a surprise that the Leafs are a disaster, with poor customer service like that.

I disagree, I once cancelled Bell, they mailed me an addressed prepaid purolator label. All I had to do was put the hardware in a box and mail it.

I tried to return a digital box to Rogers. The outlet wouldn't take it without permission from their product center. They did call the center for me. A rep told me there was no need to return the digital box as they really weren't charging me anyway. My bill showed a 5 dollar charge and then a 5 dollar credit. I said I had no use for it as All my tv's were flat screen. She replied well its old just keep it I my get an old tv someday.

Now did you think she just gave me the thing? So did I. Well 12 months later they started billing me 5 bucks a month for it. That's when I canceled Rogers. Good job I didn't throw that digital box out or give it to someone.
 

King85Kong

Playoffs?
Nov 24, 2013
4,006
0
Toronto
I disagree, I once cancelled Bell, they mailed me an addressed prepaid purolator label. All I had to do was put the hardware in a box and mail it.

I tried to return a digital box to Rogers. The outlet wouldn't take it without permission from their product center. They did call the center for me. A rep told me there was no need to return the digital box as they really weren't charging me anyway. My bill showed a 5 dollar charge and then a 5 dollar credit. I said I had no use for it as All my tv's were flat screen. She replied well its old just keep it I my get an old tv someday.

Now did you think she just gave me the thing? So did I. Well 12 months later they started billing me 5 bucks a month for it. That's when I canceled Rogers. Good job I didn't throw that digital box out or give it to someone.

Guess both are just as bad. Its been a nightmare for me in trying to return equipment to Bell. Even the rep on the phone said they were having problems. Bell I don`t want your crapy stuff, please take it back :help:
 

hoglund

Registered User
Dec 8, 2013
5,827
1,298
Canada
absolutely. if they were winning there'd be less to talk about, which means less sports news about them. It would be good news, in other words - and we all know that good news doesn't sell quite as well as bad news, right? Ever watch the 6 o'clock news? What do the first 30 minutes of EVERY newscast contain? Thats right, bad news: old lady gets ran over by bus, 2 men are shot at Yonge and Eglinton, 7 bombs go off in the Middle East, economy is about to utterly collpase and we're all going to lose our homes and go broke, in a recent study 1 in 7 are susceptible to life-theatening diseases, and we're all f-d for retirement if we don't start giving our money to the government right now. Bad news. But low and behold, we can't wait for the clock to strike 6pm so we can tune in to watch. What if it was good news? Little girl wins national skating award? Hockey coach helps old lady across the street? Cop saves dog from drowning? Nah, boring. Gimme some juicy bad news.

So if the Leafs win, it's good news, and there's less to say. But if they lose, like they have been for the better part of 50 years, then there's lots to discuss and we can fill an entire half-hour sports talk show about how badly this team stinks.

That is so true, when the Leafs were in that 9-1-1 stretch these boards were pretty quiet and now they're very busy, people seem to thrive on bad news, it doesn't make much sense, but it is true.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,099
12,292
Leafs Home Board
That is so true, when the Leafs were in that 9-1-1 stretch these boards were pretty quiet and now they're very busy, people seem to thrive on bad news, it doesn't make much sense, but it is true.

During that winning streak everyone was holding their collective breath afraid of what they thought was on the horizon and coming down the pipeline.

We've been here before as it happens every season and the same reason why fans want change in hopes of changing fortunes.
 

King85Kong

Playoffs?
Nov 24, 2013
4,006
0
Toronto
During that winning streak everyone was holding their collective breath afraid of what they thought was on the horizon and coming down the pipeline.

We've been here before as it happens every season and the same reason why fans want change in hopes of changing fortunes.

Ya, guys like Mirtle were calling for caution, and questioning the sustainability of it. As were others.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
That is so true, when the Leafs were in that 9-1-1 stretch these boards were pretty quiet and now they're very busy, people seem to thrive on bad news, it doesn't make much sense, but it is true.

what's the point of being here during that run?

to have to put up with the delusional is mind numbing!

the smart money knows what this team is , the metrics backed them up

no point in trying to point that out during a hot streak, especially on this board.

so just sit back, let this roster prove themselves out, like they have done for years and here we are right back to when they fired Wilson.

epic 18 wheeler, again.
 
Last edited:

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,099
12,292
Leafs Home Board
Ya, guys like Mirtle were calling for caution, and questioning the sustainability of it. As were others.

Leafs shooting accuracy was through the roof and #1 in the NHL and Leaf goalies sv% was +.950 during a winning streak combined with league high shots against and low possession numbers.

PDO had nowhere to go but down and back to league averages. If your shooting accuracy dries up and your goaltending returns to normal there is only one thing that can happen when you're being outworked, outplayed and outshot nightly.

#Unsustainable
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
During that winning streak everyone was holding their collective breath afraid of what they thought was on the horizon and coming down the pipeline.

We've been here before as it happens every season and the same reason why fans want change in hopes of changing fortunes.

hey mess

you know about that one stat?

teams in a PO spot by USA thanksgiving and odds of making the POs?

are we the only team in league history to buck those odds 3 times in a row?
 

King85Kong

Playoffs?
Nov 24, 2013
4,006
0
Toronto
Leafs shooting accuracy was through the roof and #1 in the NHL and Leaf goalies sv% was +.950 during a winning streak combined with league high shots against and low possession numbers.

PDO had nowhere to go but down and back to league averages. If your shooting accuracy dries up and your goaltending returns to normal there is only one thing that can happen when you're being outworked, outplayed and outshot nightly.

#Unsustainable

Pretty much. Not a good recipe for success.
 

Standardly

Registered User
Apr 7, 2008
653
8
think of supporting a team like a car manufacturer trying to get a customer into an entry level vehicle.


The leafs have pretty much lost a generation of potential fans by being horrible for the last 8-10 years. A lot of those young fans cannot be salvaged as they've made commitments to teams like Chicago, L.A, Pittsburgh etc. As they grow older, they become less impressionable and less likely to be swayed back into leaf land.


Car manufacturers do the same. Come in where you're 19 and buy a Chevy Cavalier. Hopefully you buy an impala in a handful of years from now, then a lincoln truck and hopefully a corvette on the side. Banks want you to open a student savings account early. They really want that mortgage from you in 10-15 years.


Once people gravitate to something, it's hard to steer them off. The same can be said for supporting a sports franchise. People will commit to a sports franchise if they're good and support them when they're bad but the team has to be good in order for a new hockey fan to show interest in that team. You don't see too many kids that are flordia panther fans in toronto (I imagine there's more tampa bay fans....and more to come of them).

Another case and point is the late 70's in baseball. The Jays came into the league and obviously weren't very good. The Yankees, at the time, were great. A lot of the kids born in the mid to late 60's (in toronto and many other cities) became Yankee fans. Even with the introduction of a Toronto team, those fans already pledged their allegiance. All this is not good for leafs. Not at all.


A personal example is: during the late 80's and very early 90's, I was young and a Calgary flame fan. If it weren't for Dougie G for those few years and that team he brought with him, I would have been stuck and committed to the calgary flames (haha). I was sucked into leafland because I was from Toronto but more importantly the leafs had a very good and very likeable team. That happened at a time where I was young and impressionable still. Had that happened a few years later in life, I highly doubt I would have ever become a leaf fan.

Lastly, a few people made the point about misery sells in media. That is 100% correct - however, it can only sell for a certain amount of time. If you don't think the leafs aren't losing their fanbase, you're wrong. The opportunity cost of being terrible for so long is: they lose the commitment of potential new "beleafers". Misery does sell, as long as the story engages the viewer/reader. The viewer/reader has to have an emotional connection and has to relate to the story. Case and point, blockbuster video. During it's demise, it was the talk of the town. The public and the news was worried about video stores and their demise. It was such a big issue. Will these other sources fill the gap of what blockbuster provided? Blockbuster was such a staple in people's lives. Looking back years later, blockbuster was replaced and almost forgotten by better choices. During their demise, they got tons of publicity and public concern. Now they're just a memory.



All this does not bode well for the leafs. If they refuse to rebuild and continue on this current path, they will lose another generation of potential fans - fans that pledge their allegiance and then become deeply engrained into that team without turning back. A rebuild provides hope and potential. The current path is doomed for the squad as well as for entry level fans. MLSE better smarten up. Brand loyalty only exists to those who are already committed.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,099
12,292
Leafs Home Board
hey mess

you know about that one stat?

teams in a PO spot by USA thanksgiving and odds of making the POs?

are we the only team in league history to buck those odds 3 times in a row?

As the saying goes "The cream always rises to the top" and the good teams prove its a long season often described as a marathon and not a sprint.

Leafs seems to be built for a sprint, short burst & jumping out fast but then eventually settling near the bottom when the marathon is complete.

Leafs season ending collapses are nothing more then a sprinter running out gas by not knowing how to play a style to sustain success lacking the endurance ability and relying of small bursts only.
 

studebaker17

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
1,263
205
Nothing sells a sports brand more than winning does. Even when the leafs have had some good teams the media has always spun lots of negative sun articles so that's nothing new. I really doubt a franchise worth a billion and owners that are worth billions just fly blindly and not know any of this.
 

Standardly

Registered User
Apr 7, 2008
653
8
Nothing sells a sports brand more than winning does. Even when the leafs have had some good teams the media has always spun lots of negative sun articles so that's nothing new. I really doubt a franchise worth a billion and owners that are worth billions just fly blindly and not know any of this.


sorry, what leaf teams were "good" that the media has spun? Please don't mention any team of the last 10 years because they've been a bottom half team in the league for the last 10 years except for once.
 

frost king

Registered User
Dec 11, 2013
458
1
Look at the successful teams, the core is homegrown, they are not somebody else's cast offs. The Leafs core are cast offs from other organizations. The Kings, Black Hawks, Penguins, Bruins, Red Wings, Blues, the Devils in there hay days. All teams with success have homegrown core.
 

Leaf Lander

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 31, 2002
31,941
539
BWO Headquarters
tmlfanszone.blogspot.com
Rogers, Sportsnet, TSN and Bell all treat the Leafs like a tabloid curiosity. A little bit embarrassing when the coverage is so high profile and gossipy that our in-fighting is used up as the butt of so many jokes.

I get a kick out of tsn and sportsnet. Their coverage of the leafs fallacies is laughable.
Why are the leafs so horrible why won't they try.
Thy better fire the coach make a trade blah blah
Its all sensatonalism


why is it ok for phoenix to tank or buffalo but not the leafs?
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,099
12,292
Leafs Home Board
why is it ok for phoenix to tank or buffalo but not the leafs?

Can a single owner run and operate his team different then a corporation can with many investors and partners?.

Buffalo has a single owner that is supporting a tank and its only costing himself lost profits. What happens at MLSE with many voices and differing opinions?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad