GDT: Fall Free Agent Frenzy 2

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joshjull

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So Haula just signed a 1 x 1.75 deal with the preds and we've got Eakin for more and an extra year. Neat.
No you could forsee it. You just needed to look at the amount of cap dollars available and number of roster spots available (leaguewide). I dont think many people bothered doing that.


This forum is something else.

Adams went out and made sure our middle 6 center spots were squared away by trading for Staal and signing Eakin as soon as free agency got underway. Its the first time in awhile we’ll have 3 actual NHL centers for our top 3 lines coming into camp. But Eakin didn’t sign the perfect contract so lets whine about it every time someone else signs for less.
 
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Zman5778

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This forum is something else.

Adams went out and made sure our middle 6 center spots were squared away by trading for Staal and signing Eakin as soon as free agency got underway. Its the first time in awhile we’ve had 3 actual NHL centers for our top 3 lines. But Eakin didn’t sign the perfect contract so lets whine about it every time someone else signs for less.

Not to mention it also assumes that Haula would WANT to sign here. We're not exactly a big free-agent destination.
 

Jacob582

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So Kevyn Adams should have foreseen the market and waited 2 1/2 months in to free agency to fill a key position?
 

elchud

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Not to mention it also assumes that Haula would WANT to sign here. We're not exactly a big free-agent destination.

Nobody has perfect off-seasons. I hope they do better next off-season. I accept what is as what is, lessons can be learned, AARs conducted. Im not asking for crucifixions just improvement over time.
 

joshjull

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No he should have waited 2 or 3 weeks.

Not at all.

In the fantasy world you and others operate in. The Sabres can wait as long a it takes to fill gaping holes because these UFAs would love to come here on value deals. Whereas Adams has to operate in reality where we’re not a highly desirable location unless there is a connection of some sort (this offseason that was very much Krueger).

A priority for Adams this offseason was to fill the holes at the middle 6 center spots. He doesn’t have the luxury to wait around and hope he can land guys on perfect or value contracts. He acquires Staal in a trade that not only upgrades the position but saves 1.25mil in cap space. Which then allows him to aggressively target who he wants as 3rd line center at the start of free agency. He comes out of that with only 5.5mil allotted for our 2nd and 3rd line center spots.

Any fair minded evaluation of his efforts to address the center position would call it very successful.
 
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brian_griffin

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This forum is something else.

Adams went out and made sure our middle 6 center spots were squared away by trading for Staal and signing Eakin as soon as free agency got underway. Its the first time in awhile we’ll have 3 actual NHL centers for our top 3 lines coming into camp. But Eakin didn’t sign the perfect contract so lets whine about it every time someone else signs for less.
And, didn’t add two more Right-hand d-men in the process.
 

Chainshot

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I'm not of a mind that it is comparing directly Eakin and Haula by contract. I just think Haula is a more versatile, more complete player and if he was getting Eakin money, that wouldn't bother me at all. And with the lack of available cap space, the guys left waiting in UFA are likely going to be squeezed down into short-term, low dollar deals. Who knows, maybe Buffalo finds a way to nab one of those value deals or upgrade in net prior to the end of training camp.
 

elchud

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Not at all.

In the fantasy world you and others operate in. The Sabres can wait as long a it takes to fill gaping holes because these UFAs would love to come here on value deals. Whereas Adams has to operate in reality where we’re not a highly desirable location unless there is a connection of some sort (this offseason that was very much Krueger).

A priority for Adams this offseason was to fill the holes at the middle 6 center spots. He doesn’t have the luxury to wait around and hope he can land guys on perfect or value contracts. He acquires Staal in a trade that not only upgrades the position but saves 1.25mil in cap space. Which then allows him to aggressively target who he wants as 3rd line center at the start of free agency. He comes out of that with only 5.5mil allotted for our 2nd and 3rd line center spots.

Any fair minded evaluation of his efforts to address the center position would call it very successful.

No. They actually could have waited. I get that people don't like waiting. But they could have. To say they couldn't have is fine, but it is literally incorrect as well as counterproductive to salary cap reality and strategy.

The biggest free agent came to Buffalo. I get that people think we are not attractive. Apparently waiting a few days worked there.

If you can identify the team that would have signed Eakin instead of us I can maybe play along with the incorrect absolutes and assumptions. This is fantasy talk because the past is in the past. Im not angry with what happened. I think we could have done better.
 

elchud

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We can all agree that there was no money to sign Haula (rookie bonuses). We can all agree that Nashville signed him at a nice price. We can all agree that businesses can always do business better. Theres no point disagreeing with the other stuff, go sabres and all that.

I'm not of a mind that it is comparing directly Eakin and Haula by contract. I just think Haula is a more versatile, more complete player and if he was getting Eakin money, that wouldn't bother me at all. And with the lack of available cap space, the guys left waiting in UFA are likely going to be squeezed down into short-term, low dollar deals. Who knows, maybe Buffalo finds a way to nab one of those value deals or upgrade in net prior to the end of training camp.
 

joshjull

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No. They actually could have waited. I get that people don't like waiting. But they could have. To say they couldn't have is fine, but it is literally incorrect as well as counterproductive to salary cap reality and strategy.

The biggest free agent came to Buffalo. I get that people think we are not attractive. Apparently waiting a few days worked there.

If you can identify the team that would have signed Eakin instead of us I can maybe play along with the incorrect absolutes and assumptions. This is fantasy talk because the past is in the past. Im not angry with what happened. I think we could have done better.

A few things

1) Why would you bring up Hall? His situation isn’t remotely relevant. For starters, we didn’t wait to try to sign him. We were trying to sign him on day one of free agency (just like Eakin). Hall is the one who chose to wait not us. Plus Hall decided to come here primarily due to the strong connection he developed with Krueger as an Oiler. Which would have zero relevance to any free agent with no connection to Krueger.

2) We’re not a desirable location for free agents or at the very least not a top choice. There are annual player surveys done by various media outlets (TSN, Hockey news, ESPN, etc) and one of the questions always asked is ‘which city would you least like to get traded to?’ Buffalo is consistently near the top of the list (usually top 5) every single year. Hall deciding to come here because of Krueger doesn’t change that.

The most frustrating aspect of this is the majority of players that do play here love it. Many end up staying when they retire. But the perception about the city with players league wide isn’t the best. Sucking for years hasn’t helped either.

3) Think of Adams signing Eakin as the proverbial “bird in the hand” and waiting a week or more to sign a center for less as the “two in the bush”. Its not impossible but also has a good chance of leaving us with nothing.

Adams priority was making sure had that 3rd line center. For a team in our situation it was the smarter, more realistic approach. Which is why I call your approach fantasy. Not because it can’t happen but because it guarantees us nothing. Something Adams couldn’t afford to have happen.
 
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elchud

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1) Why would you bring up Hall? His situation isn’t remotely relevant. For starters, we didn’t wait to try to sign him. We were trying to sign him on day one of free agency (just like Eakin). Hall is the one who chose to wait not us. Plus Hall decided to come here primarily due to the strong connection he developed with Krueger as an Oiler. Which would have zero relevance to any free agent with no connection to Krueger.

You are right, we did try to go after him from day one. Going by the reports, there were several teams that made pitches. My argument should have been that there was legit competition for Hall. Hall didn't only mention Krueger. He also mentioned Eichel. And he didn't have to mention the money. Re: Eakin, I've looked at the Center contracts that were signed after Eakin, the teams that made the signings, and the salary cap situations of those teams. When I'm sitting at home and not on my phone I can type all of that out. I think we weren't competing for Eakin at all, certainly not like the Hall competition. If you assert that Wennberg for example would not have taken an extra 750 to play with us, i wouldn't agree. I think Eakin could have signed for 750 less if we would have waited a few days. Reasons for signing are always given, and Krueger is a great reason to give the reporters. The money quotes are never about the money! No doubt they though Eakin was the ideal bottom 6 center this team needs. Id like to know what other teams wanted him ( we know at least a few of the teams that wanted Hall ) and how the salary cap sitch of those teams would have worked with those teams and that contract. You just have to see the below market deals for basically all the centers who signed after Eakin. That's the extent of my point. Lets make a list of all the sub-3 million center contracts this offseason and identify the overpays and underpays. Your point is Eakin had to be an overpay because Buffalo. My point is 10 other guys were underpays because of salary cap reality. We are a max cap team with rookie bonuses, we had no problem signing our 23 man team, and the Ottawas and Detroit of the NHL also had no problem signing players. Its about money.

2) We’re not a desirable location for free agents or at the very least not a top choice. There are annual player surveys done by various media outlets (TSN, Hockey news, ESPN, etc) and one of the questions always asked is ‘which city would you least like to get traded to?’ Buffalo is consistently near the top of the list (usually top 5) every single year.

So Eakin would not have taken 750k less to sign here? I get the big point you are making, but, in Eakins case, if we were competing with ourselves I dont agree that waiting a few days to sign someone so a lower cap contract could be had would be a reason Eakin wouldn't have signed here. Again, what other teams are we talking about. The data exists we can go back to October and sort it out.

Limited 23 man roster spots. Limited salary cap dollars. You just have to do the math. Lets take Haula. Lets assume Haula would have wanted 750k more last week to sign with us. Are you saying that he would have chosen to play in Europe or Russia over the NHL contract? I dont agree. I dont see how this mentality helps us in the future. Other 3rd line centers signed for a lot less than Eakin. We could have waited him out.
 

elchud

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I could accept the arguments and go with 1yr 2.25. Its the 2nd year which is troubling, when Cozens and Quinn may be on the roster, Mitts and Asplund have no waivers, and then what to do with Ruotsalainen and maybe? Pekar. And the Dahlin contract and what to do with Hall/Reinhart. 1 year...okie dokie. It is what it is. The 2nd year is no bueno through and through.
 

brian_griffin

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I could accept the arguments and go with 1yr 2.25. Its the 2nd year which is troubling, when Cozens and Quinn may be on the roster, Mitts and Asplund have no waivers, and then what to do with Ruotsalainen and maybe? Pekar. And the Dahlin contract and what to do with Hall/Reinhart. 1 year...okie dokie. It is what it is. The 2nd year is no bueno through and through.
2nd year may have been necessary to entice him to sign with BUF
 

Snippit

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I don’t know that I’d take Eakin even if he cost nothing against the cap. What’s he adding to the bottom six, really?

Larsson was supposed to be the 3C and apparently he wanted to be here according to his bro on Twitter. So I don’t know what the heck happened there but it sucks.
 

Djp

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I don’t know that I’d take Eakin even if he cost nothing against the cap. What’s he adding to the bottom six, really?

Larsson was supposed to be the 3C and apparently he wanted to be here according to his bro on Twitter. So I don’t know what the heck happened there but it sucks.

I’m sure Larsson wanted something above $3M to sign here

I bet Haula was asking for similar $3M+ on 3+ yrs.
Eakins was willing to sign for the term he got.

buffalo had a strategy in place knowing what cap space they had with a little buffer if they needed it.
 

Snippit

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I’m sure Larsson wanted something above $3M to sign here

I bet Haula was asking for similar $3M+ on 3+ yrs.
Eakins was willing to sign for the term he got.

buffalo had a strategy in place knowing what cap space they had with a little buffer if they needed it.

Arizona-bound Johan Larsson says there were no talks on deal with Sabres

sounds like Buffalo wasn’t interested in Larsson

Which is insane considering how heavily RK relied on him. I thought Krueger was giving lots of input?
 

Fjordy

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Arizona-bound Johan Larsson says there were no talks on deal with Sabres

sounds like Buffalo wasn’t interested in Larsson

Which is insane considering how heavily RK relied on him. I thought Krueger was giving lots of input?
Well, you never know what happened there? Maybe Larsson had a conflict, or maybe he didn't really want to stay in Buffalo, although you can say anything in the press, apparently there were reasons why he ended up in Arizona for such money.
 

SundherDome

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This team has perfectly set themselves up for either season outcome..

Competitive - We signed Hall and locked up key RFA's. We knew this team could do it. We got consistent defensive play and some big saves when we needed them. Ultimately we are proud of our guys and will research every avenue to keeping this team competitive and playoff caliber.

Utter failure - Tough, shortened season. We went all in with Hall and we need to be better. We achieved depth scoring but we still need more from our bottom six, defense and goaltending. We will research every avenue to getting the Sabres back to the playoffs, starting with this top 5 pick.


There is no in between.
 

Djp

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Snippit

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talks isn’t Larsson agent: “ my thought on a contract was $3.5M over 4 yrs. let’s get it done”. ....time passes...agent “ dud the sabres lose or miss my message”..... time passes....agent “ hello....”

Well let's look at what we know:
- Larsson said the Sabres showed minimal interest and didn't really communicate and didn't sense the enthusiasm at all at re-signing him
- Larsson's brother said he wanted to re-sign

So sure, you can believe that Larsson was demanding 3M+ from Buffalo (and then turned around and signed for significantly less in a place he'd really like to go, Arizona). I think it's far more likely, based on the above, that management just didn't want Larsson back.
 

SharkInABoloTie

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Adams went out and made sure our middle 6 center spots were squared away by trading for Staal and signing Eakin as soon as free agency got underway. Its the first time in awhile we’ll have 3 actual NHL centers for our top 3 lines coming into camp. But Eakin didn’t sign the perfect contract so lets whine about it every time someone else signs for less.
Eakin is completely washed from my viewings and not worth that contract whatsoever. I didn't like it then, and my mind hasn't changed.

We'll see how he looks in January. I'm just salty because all I wanted since we traded for Staal was Haula. Seeing his signing definitely irritates me
 

jc17

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I don’t know that I’d take Eakin even if he cost nothing against the cap. What’s he adding to the bottom six, really?

Larsson was supposed to be the 3C and apparently he wanted to be here according to his bro on Twitter. So I don’t know what the heck happened there but it sucks.
Yeah I'm not sure. Honestly most of my opinion was stat watching so I decided to watch some games and specifically watch him and it was underwhelming.

He was decent at just moving pucks up ice. If he got control in the d-zone he could usually at least get the puck out and had fairly quick passes to linemates, rarely held on to it for very long. He was fairly invisible in the ozone, it looked like he was told to just stand in front of the net. On the forecheck in the neutral zone and ozone his positioning seemed alright, and at times it looked like he was disruptive, but there were other times he completely missed the guy with the puck attempting a steal. In the dzone it seemed like he didn't get lost, but he would lose guys behind him occasionally. On the PK he appeared to direct traffic.

In all, I think they wanted someone who wouldn't try to do to much, move the puck out of the dzone, get in position in the ozone, and maybe help on the PK. But I'm still not sure that Larsson wasn't capable of this.
 
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