FA/Trade Thread 2014-2015 Season V.10

[Orfieus]

Lupul + Leivo for 1st (somewhere between 15-22).

A trade like this would mean we got a 1st + Gardiner for Beauchemin + 3rd round pick

With this trade Toronto can keep Franson and have enough for Kadri

 

[namttebih]

Lupul + Leivo for 1st (somewhere between 15-22).

A trade like this would mean we got a 1st + Gardiner for Beauchemin + 3rd round pick

With this trade Toronto can keep Franson and have enough for Kadri

So we're going to trade away one of our better prospects that we've been grooming for over three years so that we can overpay a UFA that will be 28 YO at the start of the season coming off a career year. All of this while rebuilding.

 

[Orfieus]

So we're going to trade away one of our better prospects that we've been grooming for over three years so that we can overpay a UFA that will be 28 YO at the start of the season coming off a career year. All of this while rebuilding.

The fact that one of our "better" prospects might not even be a top 6 forward. Yes, I have no issue with these types of trades.

 

[Faltorvo]

I didn't realize that there were only 2 retetions per team.
What about value wise? $3.95m for a 1st and prospect.
I'll have to disagree on Dion. I think that 4 years from now he'll still be a good #3 at the very least.$7man overpayment for a good #3 in 2019?

I think retaining some of dions would be to open up more options for trade destinations.

look, everything I am reading and hearing is that the league cap is going nowhere fast and will be for awhile

by the looks of it, we will be lucky if it hits 71m for next year

if the players don't use the 5% kicker then the cap will actually go down, believe it or not.

iirc it's 2 per team at the same time. so when gunner comes off we are back at two options, I think

 

[namttebih]

The fact that one of our "better" prospects might not even be a top 6 forward. Yes, I have no issue with these types of trades.

You're ignoring the fact that we'd be repeating an action that has gotten us into the mess that we're in right now. Is locking up Cody at 27m over 5 something that we want to do at this point?

 

[namttebih]

I think retaining some of dions would be to open up more options for trade destinations.

look, everything I am reading and hearing is that the league cap is going nowhere fast and will be for awhile

by the looks of it, we will be lucky if it hits 71m for next year

if the players don't use the 5% kicker then the cap will actually go down, believe it or not.

iirc it's 2 per team at the same time. so when gunner comes off we are back at two options, I think

I'm not saying that you're wrong, buy are you sure that you're not confusing it with the compliance buyout? I honestly don't remember ever hearing that.

As far as the cap, you could be absolutely right with the dollar the way it is.

 

[Warden of the North]

There is a limit to how many contracts you can retain salary on. I thought it was 3, but it could be 2.

 

[Faltorvo]

There is a limit to how many contracts you can retain salary on. I thought it was 3, but it could be 2.

yup just looked into it

it's 3 at a time.

 

[namttebih]

yup just looked into it

it's 3 at a time.

Perfect! It's a moot point then! Haha

Lupul @ 3.95 or 20% retained

For

Low 1st
Prospect

 

[Al14]

Perfect! It's a moot point then! Haha

Lupul @ 3.95 or 20% retained

For

Low 1st
Prospect

Drop the low 1st, or prospect, in exchange for no salary retention.

How about a 2nd and a prospect for Lupul?

 

[garce]

Drop the low 1st, or prospect, in exchange for no salary retention.

How about a 2nd and a prospect for Lupul?

How about nothing retrained and a face saving 4 or 5?

 

[Neil Hamburger]

I hope we trade Franson, Santorelli, and Winnik for picks and prospects and call it a day until the draft. Adding a couple of 2nd/3rd round picks would be nice. An extra first round pick would be great too, but I don't know if we can get one for any of the guys we'll be selling.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

I think it will be a crime and a disaster if the Leafs move Phil Kessel. Here's a guy that likes the city and the team. He showed that last year when he signed the contract. He could have gone to lower taxed American cities and be better off. They are just not giving him the right support. That support includes a Kopitar-like centre, a steady defensive pair and a coach that can combine his strength and his defense. We will be giving away a big asset if he's moved. We will regret it

 

[Rielly4]

I think it will be a crime and a disaster if the Leafs move Phil Kessel. Here's a guy that likes the city and the team. He showed that last year when he signed the contract. He could have gone to lower taxed American cities and be better off. They are just not giving him the right support. That support includes a Kopitar-like centre, a steady defensive pair and a coach that can combine his strength and his defense. We will be giving away a big asset if he's moved. We will regret it

Depends on what the return is... Also depends on what our plan moving forward is.

If our plan is to start a 5 year rebuild Kessel leaving is the start of it, some would argue thats our only option.

What if we got a deal like Brodin+Coyle+2nd.

 

[namttebih]

Drop the low 1st, or prospect, in exchange for no salary retention.

How about a 2nd and a prospect for Lupul?

Why not though? If we are truly going full rebuild, we are going to have cap space for 3 years. Why not get a 1st and prospect. MLSE can afford to pay the $1.3.

I really don't think they there is a market for a 5.25 Lupul. You certainly aren't going to get a 2nd and prospect for him. As RTOO posted earlier, we would have to add a prospect to get rid of him.

Instead of losing the prospect, why not eat a little salary for 3 years while we have the space and gain a prospect.

 

[Simcoe23]

You're ignoring the fact that we'd be repeating an action that has gotten us into the mess that we're in right now. Is locking up Cody at 27m over 5 something that we want to do at this point?

Absolutely not. Trading Cody while his value is high, getting a big return and going young is what you do. Franson will be at the end of that deal before we can compete for a cup.

 

[diceman934]

Cody is gone as he wants term and salary.....it has been reported that he wants 7 year and what his agent feels he can get on the open market.....which will be 6M plus..

No thanks....the term alone is enough to make me walk away. He will be traded.

 

[Faltorvo]

Cody is gone as he wants term and salary.....it has been reported that he wants 7 year and what his agent feels he can get on the open market.....which will be 6M plus..

No thanks....the term alone is enough to make me walk away. He will be traded.

I have his open market pegged at 7y x 5.75m, limited ntc.

ufa season will be chilled this year

I can't stress this enough, the cap is going to take a shocking turn this year.

it will either drop by 2m or go up by 2m depending if the PA uses the 5% kicker or not.

 

[Orfieus]

You're ignoring the fact that we'd be repeating an action that has gotten us into the mess that we're in right now. Is locking up Cody at 27m over 5 something that we want to do at this point?

Then don't resign him. By trading Lupul + Leivo Toronto gets another first rounder and fees up cap space. If Leivo can become a top 6 forward then maybe we over paid but if Leivo cannot crack a top 6 with this Leaf team how good of a prospect is he? Trade him and take another shot but this time it will be a 1st!

 

[namttebih]

Then don't resign him. By trading Lupul + Leivo Toronto gets another first rounder and fees up cap space. If Leivo can become a top 6 forward then maybe we over paid but if Leivo cannot crack a top 6 with this Leaf team how good of a prospect is he? Trade him and take another shot but this time it will be a 1st!

I get that but why not have our cake and eat it too. He was a third round pick from three years ago. We need to have a lot more patience.
If we're rebuilding and shedding contracts, we're going to have cap space. If we can have Leivo, 1st and a prospect at the low low cost of Lupul and $1.3M, wouldn't we be better off?

 

[Orfieus]

I get that but why not have our cake and eat it too. He was a third round pick from three years ago. We need to have a lot more patience.
If we're rebuilding and shedding contracts, we're going to have cap space. If we can have Leivo, 1st and a prospect at the low low cost of Lupul and $1.3M, wouldn't we be better off?

I guess it just depends on how highly you think of Leivo. If Leivo isn't going to be anything more then a 3rd line winger why not trade him?

 

[thewave]

I have his open market pegged at 7y x 5.75m, limited ntc.

ufa season will be chilled this year

I can't stress this enough, the cap is going to take a shocking turn this year.

it will either drop by 2m or go up by 2m depending if the PA uses the 5% kicker or not.

They'll use the kicker. To many teams are to the cap.

 

[diceman934]

I have his open market pegged at 7y x 5.75m, limited ntc.

ufa season will be chilled this year

I can't stress this enough, the cap is going to take a shocking turn this year.

it will either drop by 2m or go up by 2m depending if the PA uses the 5% kicker or not.

The cap may drop a little this year but not enough to stop teams from over paying free agents. Franson would likely be the top free agent available....he will get a number starting with a 6 for 7 years.

 

[ULF_55]

I think retaining some of dions would be to open up more options for trade destinations.

look, everything I am reading and hearing is that the league cap is going nowhere fast and will be for awhile

by the looks of it, we will be lucky if it hits 71m for next year

if the players don't use the 5% kicker then the cap will actually go down, believe it or not.

iirc it's 2 per team at the same time. so when gunner comes off we are back at two options, I think

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2014/1/19/5321360/nhl-cba-rule-retained-salary-trades-ryan-miller

I won't paste the full limitations on Retained Salary Transactions (you can check them in the CBA in 50.5 (e) (iii) (C) if you want to read legalese), but they boil down to:
•You can keep up to 50% of the cap and salary commitment to a player you trade.

•You can only have such commitments to three players at any given time. (e.g. Toronto currently has that with Ben Scrivens, Matthew Lombardi, and Matt Frattin. They can't add another until one of those contracts run out.)

•The total of your "retained salary" commitments cannot exceed 15% of the cap's upper limit. (So under the current $64.3 million cap, a team can retain up to $9.6 million.)

•You cannot reacquire such a player for one year after the trade -- unless his contract has expired in the meantime (i.e., he became a free agent, signed a new deal, and you traded for him).

•Any single player contract cannot be used in a "retained salary transaction" (trade) like this more than twice. (So if L.A. had agreed to retain some of Scrivens' salary when dealing him to Edmonton, the Oilers could not do the same if they traded him on this contract.)

So the example used is ... you guess it, perhaps the biggest messed up team in the league.

If your team is the wealthiest why can't it buy the smartest people?

Disaster after disaster making decisions at the ACC.

 

[thewave]

The cap may drop a little this year but not enough to stop teams from over paying free agents. Franson would likely be the top free agent available....he will get a number starting with a 6 for 7 years.

Even still if cap stays the same it's another example of poor forward planning by Nonis and MLSE. Never back yourself into a corner and yet here we are.