FA/Trade Thread 2014-2015 Season V.10

Status
Not open for further replies.

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Why do I get the feeling the Leafs are going to treat this "rebuild" like they always do with a "re-tool' they'll trade a few players, but then get back a 24-25 year old, make other decent moves and be good enough to just miss the playoffs and have the 13th pick??? This team should be trying to move any possible asset they have excluding Rielly, Bernier, Kadri. This team needs to suck and suck for a few years. I want this team to finally be able to pick #1, it's been almost 30 years since we've had a #1 pick. It's incredible how we talk about rebuilding, but we really don't actually rebuild....it's always half assed.

I feel your pain and share your doubts

I have the odds of a full blown up/ draft rebuild at 25% right now

simple because idk what shanny and new ownership is all about yet

I'm leaning ownership toward the quick retool, simply because they brought in "lets get them all in the playoffs now" lieweekly and then to watch dave no no bring in Clarkson and bolland and let all those ufa s walk last td

if shanny starts to dump pending ufa s this td that will be a glimmer of hope, more so if they are closer to sniffin a PO spot.

I will know exactly who and what shanny and ownership is when we start next season , this td and next off season will provide all the answers
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,676
10,716
I feel your pain and share your doubts

I have the odds of a full blown up/ draft rebuild at 25% right now

simple because idk what shanny and new ownership is all about yet

I'm leaning ownership toward the quick retool, simply because they brought in "lets get them all in the playoffs now" lieweekly and then to watch dave no no bring in Clarkson and bolland and let all those ufa s walk last td

if shanny starts to dump pending ufa s this td that will be a glimmer of hope, more so if they are closer to sniffin a PO spot.

I will know exactly who and what shanny and ownership is when we start next season , this td and next off season will provide all the answers

It makes little sense to rebuild when you really crunch it.

Lupul Bozak Robidas Polak Dion the UFAs not including Franson traded are enough to start a micro rebuild of sorts.
 

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
17,338
4,149
NHL player factory
Bernier is an RFA so his situation is different. The Leafs have to know what Franson wants before the deadline.

IMO hes gone, maybe sooner then later.

Yes he is gone....they have had the discussions and he wants to much...unless he comes down he will be moved and he will not come down as he holds the hammer. He is being shopped right now.

Hope Smoke: Darren Dreger: “Kadri has to play better if he wants $4.5 or $5 million [per season]â€

“The message I’m getting is Leafs told Franson: we’re not going to be comfortable paying you what you’ll demand on the UFA market.†“That’s the way it sounds. If that’s the case, it’s not my case to defend any hockey player, but they earn their UFA.†“there’s also pressure from the NHLPA to coax their players into UFA & make most amount of money & they should do that†“Someone is going to give Franson 7 years [on the UFA market]. Leafs don’t have interest at that term & money.†“What Toronto wants in return, for whatever deal they make, is playersthat fit into the 22-25 age group.â€
 

ChuckWoods

Registered User
Sep 13, 2009
5,333
1,616
Picks should be Shanahan's main goal

I think Shanny has seen what picks and development can do if given the right system and staff.

He was lucky enough to be exposed to the impact Detroit can have in that department.

You've seen Yzerman come in with not much experience and really turn his team around in a matter of a few short years.

Yzerman has clearly been a bit more active and hands on, but he's also in more of a hands on role, but you can be sure that their idea's and value's are very similar due to where they come from.

Yzerman has moved out these players for picks; Mezaros, Gagner, Kubina, Moore and Quincy in his first few years (months) as a GM without really sending any significant picks the other way.

Then turned around and used those picks to make the face of his team his own.

You'll likely see Shanahan TRY and make similar moves with our expendable pieces, but Toronto isn't in the best position to make such moves.

They'll want the express permission from their recently signed UFA's if they should have the option to move them, as its not exactly a great trait to have if you're signing UFA's, letting them settle in and them shipping them out when they finally get their lives settled.

So that essentially leaves you thin on options, and we can be sure Shanahan continues to have discussions and take his time deciding where to go with this team.

IF he does move bigger assets, you'll likely see some good picks coming back and near NHL ready prospects, or already established younger players with term.

There will be no "patch jobs" unless salary being taken back is a must.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,676
10,716
Yes he is gone....they have had the discussions and he wants to much...unless he comes down he will be moved and he will not come down as he holds the hammer. He is being shopped right now.

Hope Smoke: Darren Dreger: “Kadri has to play better if he wants $4.5 or $5 million [per season]â€

“The message I’m getting is Leafs told Franson: we’re not going to be comfortable paying you what you’ll demand on the UFA market.†“That’s the way it sounds. If that’s the case, it’s not my case to defend any hockey player, but they earn their UFA.†“there’s also pressure from the NHLPA to coax their players into UFA & make most amount of money & they should do that†“Someone is going to give Franson 7 years [on the UFA market]. Leafs don’t have interest at that term & money.†“What Toronto wants in return, for whatever deal they make, is players that fit into the 22-25 age group.â€

Kadri has to play more like Bozak? Maybe if the team played like a team he would have better stats. This team is a bit of a joke they know that right? I don't understand how they can excuse that as a position of power over Kadri contract.

Franson should be resigned and if traded, he should be targeted for a return next season.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
74,277
40,188
I think Shanny has seen what picks and development can do if given the right system and staff.

He was lucky enough to be exposed to the impact Detroit can have in that department.

You've seen Yzerman come in with not much experience and really turn his team around in a matter of a few short years.

Yzerman has clearly been a bit more active and hands on, but he's also in more of a hands on role, but you can be sure that their idea's and value's are very similar due to where they come from.

Yzerman has moved out these players for picks; Mezaros, Gagner, Kubina, Moore and Quincy in his first few years (months) as a GM without really sending any significant picks the other way.

Then turned around and used those picks to make the face of his team his own.

You'll likely see Shanahan TRY and make similar moves with our expendable pieces, but Toronto isn't in the best position to make such moves.

They'll want the express permission from their recently signed UFA's if they should have the option to move them, as its not exactly a great trait to have if you're signing UFA's, letting them settle in and them shipping them out when they finally get their lives settled.

So that essentially leaves you thin on options, and we can be sure Shanahan continues to have discussions and take his time deciding where to go with this team.

IF he does move bigger assets, you'll likely see some good picks coming back and near NHL ready prospects, or already established younger players with term.

There will be no "patch jobs" unless salary being taken back is a must.

Does Nonis have any say or is it all Shanahan?
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Yes he is gone....they have had the discussions and he wants to much...unless he comes down he will be moved and he will not come down as he holds the hammer. He is being shopped right now.

Hope Smoke: Darren Dreger: “Kadri has to play better if he wants $4.5 or $5 million [per season]â€

“The message I’m getting is Leafs told Franson: we’re not going to be comfortable paying you what you’ll demand on the UFA market.†“That’s the way it sounds. If that’s the case, it’s not my case to defend any hockey player, but they earn their UFA.†“there’s also pressure from the NHLPA to coax their players into UFA & make most amount of money & they should do that†“Someone is going to give Franson 7 years [on the UFA market]. Leafs don’t have interest at that term & money.†“What Toronto wants in return, for whatever deal they make, is players that fit into the 22-25 age group.â€

players in the 22-25 age group?

OFF sake not this BS all over again.:shakehead

well, one should not be shocked.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
I think Shanny has seen what picks and development can do if given the right system and staff.

He was lucky enough to be exposed to the impact Detroit can have in that department.

You've seen Yzerman come in with not much experience and really turn his team around in a matter of a few short years.

Yzerman has clearly been a bit more active and hands on, but he's also in more of a hands on role, but you can be sure that their idea's and value's are very similar due to where they come from.

Yzerman has moved out these players for picks; Mezaros, Gagner, Kubina, Moore and Quincy in his first few years (months) as a GM without really sending any significant picks the other way.

Then turned around and used those picks to make the face of his team his own.

You'll likely see Shanahan TRY and make similar moves with our expendable pieces, but Toronto isn't in the best position to make such moves.

They'll want the express permission from their recently signed UFA's if they should have the option to move them, as its not exactly a great trait to have if you're signing UFA's, letting them settle in and them shipping them out when they finally get their lives settled.

So that essentially leaves you thin on options, and we can be sure Shanahan continues to have discussions and take his time deciding where to go with this team.

IF he does move bigger assets, you'll likely see some good picks coming back and near NHL ready prospects, or already established younger players with term.

There will be no "patch jobs" unless salary being taken back is a must.


well, I'm not holding my breath or offering much hope on that department

this organisation needs to EARN that kind of trust back.
 

ChuckWoods

Registered User
Sep 13, 2009
5,333
1,616
Does Nonis have any say or is it all Shanahan?

At this point I personally think the majority of the decisions are up to Shanny.

Dubas is being groomed and still too young/inexperienced to have the sort of contacts and relations that Nonis has around the league, so there IS a reason Nonis is still around.

Upper Managment around the league still has to respect things young man (Dubas), or they'll never take him serious in discussions.

Nonis is helping bridge that gap.
 

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
17,338
4,149
NHL player factory
Kadri has to play more like Bozak? Maybe if the team played like a team he would have better stats. This team is a bit of a joke they know that right? I don't understand how they can excuse that as a position of power over Kadri contract.

Franson should be resigned and if traded, he should be targeted for a return next season.

Your kidding right? He is seeking a 7 year term at god knows what cap hit but it is around the 6M per...... we do not want any part of that. He is not a player you sign to a 7 year deal unless it was at 3M to 3.5M per.

Read the post again....That is the amount that Kadri is seeking.
 

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
17,338
4,149
NHL player factory
At this point I personally think the majority of the decisions are up to Shanny.

Dubas is being groomed and still too young/inexperienced to have the sort of contacts and relations that Nonis has around the league, so there IS a reason Nonis is still around.

Upper Managment around the league still has to respect things young man (Dubas), or they'll never take him serious in discussions.

Nonis is helping bridge that gap.

So obvious that I wonder why people can not see it. I stated this at the start of the season to which many said I was wrong. The Hunter Hire will help as he has many contacts around the League as well.
 
Oct 25, 2014
9,632
2,716
London, ON
At this point I personally think the majority of the decisions are up to Shanny.

Dubas is being groomed and still too young/inexperienced to have the sort of contacts and relations that Nonis has around the league, so there IS a reason Nonis is still around.

Upper Managment around the league still has to respect things young man (Dubas), or they'll never take him serious in discussions.

Nonis is helping bridge that gap.

A bit of a different question Chuck, but do you have any insight on if the Leafs feel they MUST have a playoff team for the 100th year? Any chance they still stick long term and try and rebuild this team or is that season most likely going to lead to another fast/half assed retool?
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,372
54,902

I don't get it. If the Avs are facing impending doom with O'Reilly walking as a free agent in 1.5 years, why does Toronto need to trade them anything? Just wait till free agency.

Also, I find it funny they've been trying to move O'Reilly for what feels like 3 years now. I wonder if an underachieving Matt Duchene might be fair game at some point instead.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,372
54,902
ROR for Rielly straight up.

That is probably what it will take to get ROR. Our bid has to be better then other teams FYI.

The Leafs are the only team that gets BS'ed like this. It's almost like the equivalent of saying "the Panthers would like to trade for Kadri, and the Leafs insist on getting Barkov back in return."
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,457
312
I think Shanny has seen what picks and development can do if given the right system and staff.

He was lucky enough to be exposed to the impact Detroit can have in that department.

You've seen Yzerman come in with not much experience and really turn his team around in a matter of a few short years.

Yzerman has clearly been a bit more active and hands on, but he's also in more of a hands on role, but you can be sure that their idea's and value's are very similar due to where they come from.

Yzerman has moved out these players for picks; Mezaros, Gagner, Kubina, Moore and Quincy in his first few years (months) as a GM without really sending any significant picks the other way.

Then turned around and used those picks to make the face of his team his own.

You'll likely see Shanahan TRY and make similar moves with our expendable pieces, but Toronto isn't in the best position to make such moves.

They'll want the express permission from their recently signed UFA's if they should have the option to move them, as its not exactly a great trait to have if you're signing UFA's, letting them settle in and them shipping them out when they finally get their lives settled.

So that essentially leaves you thin on options, and we can be sure Shanahan continues to have discussions and take his time deciding where to go with this team.

IF he does move bigger assets, you'll likely see some good picks coming back and near NHL ready prospects, or already established younger players with term.

There will be no "patch jobs" unless salary being taken back is a must.

I agree that Tampa reloaded starting with picks. Specifically at the 2012 deadline when the moved out Moore, Kubina, Downie who turned into Quincey who turned into a 1st.

I see the Leafs needing to follow a similar path with our pending UFAs this deadline + a guy like Bozak who is our best sell high candidate who isn't a long term piece with Kadri, Holland, Nylander in the system and to a lesser impact Komarov, McKegg, Gauthier + potentially our own 1st this year.

It starts with bringing in extra picks this deadline but people need to be prepared for some picks to be going out the door. Toronto needs more picks to even been in trade discussions or be comfortable sending out some prospects. We simply need more asset depth and it starts with picks/prospects. Toronto just needs to make sure when pulling a trade in the next year or two it's for guys that are still young, long term pieces and on the upswing like we did with Holland, Bernier. We need to avoid sending out picks for guys like O'Bryne, Bolland, etc.

Tampa also sent out a lot of picks in recent years in acquiring Lindback who didn't pan out as expected then Bishop who been amazing for them. Last summer they sent out a 2nd for Garrison (smart move considering they are in a contending phase and could do this from previously stocking up and being close to contending. Toronto shouldn't be looking at a such move for a few seasons until we have the rest of contending foundation in place).

Tampa made a lot of smart moves but much like the Leafs also simply needed time for guys in their system to develop.

Also worth noting Tampa didn't shy away from the Russian factor when other teams were running scared of it in recent drafts in taking guys like Kucherov, Palat, top goaltending prospect Vasilevsky, Gudas.

They also were dramatically smarter in free agency. They locked up Carle + Filpulla to reasonable deals to fill top pairing Dman and 2nd line center role. In the 12/13 off-seasons we meanwhile gave up picks for Bolland who later walked, gave Clarkson a silly contract on a team that was already built around the wing, misused our cap buyouts which is still counting against us in the form of Gleason for 3 more years. It will take a while to recover from the 2013 complete debacle of an off-season with the Bolland, Clarkson, buyout mess up.
 
Last edited:

Orfieus

Registered User
Nov 2, 2012
3,530
2,048
Atlantic Canada
I think a lot of people are really expecting too much out of Rielly. He will be a good defenceman and probably be #2D but I don't see anything that screams elite.

Avs get a defenceman they need. TO gets a centerman they need. How is this not a good trade?
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,457
312
I don't get it. If the Avs are facing impending doom with O'Reilly walking as a free agent in 1.5 years, why does Toronto need to trade them anything? Just wait till free agency.

Also, I find it funny they've been trying to move O'Reilly for what feels like 3 years now. I wonder if an underachieving Matt Duchene might be fair game at some point instead.

Toronto needs to inquire about ROR but we are in no position or need to make a push for him this deadline.

ROR is a good player that would dramatically help us but unless we can hold extension talks with before a trade is made we aren't in a position to give up assets with the potential for him to walk at the end of next year or force us to give him a crazy contract.

Giving up Rielly is just silly talk. Look for a 2-3 piece deal similar to what Bobby Ryan, Brent Burns, Ryan Kesler returned.
 
Last edited:

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
17,338
4,149
NHL player factory
I think a lot of people are really expecting too much out of Rielly. He will be a good defenceman and probably be #2D but I don't see anything that screams elite.

Avs get a defenceman they need. TO gets a centerman they need. How is this not a good trade?

Two things ROR is not a top center.....Rielly by your own admission is a top pairing D man...so why would we get the short end of the stick?

Rielly>>ROR

Then add in the salary he currently being paid and what his demands will be and we get screwed in a very large way.
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,457
312
I think a lot of people are really expecting too much out of Rielly. He will be a good defenceman and probably be #2D but I don't see anything that screams elite.

Avs get a defenceman they need. TO gets a centerman they need. How is this not a good trade?

Salaries, RFA vs. UFA.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,676
10,716
Your kidding right? He is seeking a 7 year term at god knows what cap hit but it is around the 6M per...... we do not want any part of that. He is not a player you sign to a 7 year deal unless it was at 3M to 3.5M per.

Read the post again....That is the amount that Kadri is seeking.

Hey I didn't say I would do 7x6. It has to make sense. According to HFBoards he is just worth a 2nd so that's maybe 4.5m? I would give him 5m x 5 maybe 5.5m. Not 6m, probably trade him within 3 years as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad