F Alexis Lafreniere - Rimouski Oceanic, QMJHL (2020 Draft) Part 2

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93LEAFS

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I guess everything is always about Matthews and how he’s better than Laine to Leafs fans. How could I possibly have a different opinion on a player with all of 1 less goal entering this season? All I heard all offseason from Leaf fans was that everything that could involve these players in any comparison was always in favor of Matthews and there’s no debate. Now I’m being told by you, probably the least prone Leaf fan on the website to being a total homer, that a player with one less goal entering the season has no argument for being a better goal scorer than a player with one goal more.

Laine had a bad season, yet I guess there’s an opportunity to win a Matthews vs. Laine contest for Leaf fans entering this season, so that takes precedent. It takes such precedent that every discussion on this website has to become a debate on this topic. If you’ll notice, I didn’t mention Matthews in my post. I think he’d be drafted before Lafreniere. I think most would agree with that. Leaf fans certainly will never agree on anything that makes Laine look good.

And I’ll mention again that you usually don’t stoop to this kind of rhetoric. I don’t know why you’ve now decided it’s time to join the homer brigade as anti-Laine with an immediate comparison to Matthews.
What I said was, Laine isn't a once in a generation goal scorer at this point. Matthews has been the better goal scorer and has done it not being even close to as reliant on linemates. Hence why Matthews has killed Laine at 5v5 goal scoring-wise. Saying Matthews has been the better goal scorer so far, and that Laine isn't a one in a generation goal scorer isn't being a homer. I mean, he had 1 more goal in 25 fewer games. Unless you don't think Matthews can stay healthy, its a bit ridiculous to think he can't be a perrenial 40 goal guy. I mean, evidence at this point pretty strongly shows he has a very strong chance. Yet, you don't think he can be unless scoring stays high.

I mean, I didn't even bash Laine, I said Laine would be in the discussion with Laf at this point. You decided to try to frame me as completely biased by grouping me with a bunch of other people. Maybe examine your own biases towards Laine and generally euro prospects before you start claiming someone else is completely biased.

But, whatever. Lafreniere would challenge Laine, Kakko and Hughes, and it will be interesting to see how he finishes this year. WJC will be a big event for him with the role he is expected to have.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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What I said was, Laine isn't a once in a generation goal scorer at this point. Matthews has been the better goal scorer and has done it not being even close to as reliant on linemates. Hence why Matthews has killed Laine at 5v5 goal scoring-wise. Saying Matthews has been the better goal scorer so far, and that Laine isn't a one in a generation goal scorer isn't being a homer. I mean, he had 1 more goal in 25 fewer games. Unless you don't think Matthews can stay healthy, its a bit ridiculous to think he can't be a perrenial 40 goal guy. I mean, evidence at this point pretty strongly shows he has a very strong chance. Yet, you don't think he can be unless scoring stays high.

I mean, I didn't even bash Laine, I said Laine would be in the discussion with Laf at this point. You decided to try to frame me as completely biased by grouping me with a bunch of other people. Maybe examine your own biases towards Laine and generally euro prospects before you start claiming someone else is completely biased.

But, whatever. Lafreniere would challenge Laine, Kakko and Hughes, and it will be interesting to see how he finishes this year. WJC will be a big event for him with the role he is expected to have.

You didn't bash Laine, but you criticized him in a subtle way, and then inserted Matthews into the discussion. Again, you are one of the smarter posters on this website. I think you know exactly why this stuff gets tiring to see. The Leaf fan above trying to defend you doesn't appear to be intelligent enough to spot what I think we both know you are aware of.

And don't try to turn this towards me or any of my own biases. This is not about me. I fully accept that Leaf fans prefer Matthews to Laine, and generally will not say positive things about Laine, but there was no need for you to respond to something in the way that you did, considering it was not addressed to you and did not discuss Matthews. And you should be smarter to know how it comes off when a Leaf fan instantly pushes back on a pro-Laine viewpoint.
 

TheBeastCoast

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You didn't bash Laine, but you criticized him in a subtle way, and then inserted Matthews into the discussion. Again, you are one of the smarter posters on this website. I think you know exactly why this stuff gets tiring to see. The Leaf fan above trying to defend you doesn't appear to be intelligent enough to spot what I think we both know you are aware of.

And don't try to turn this towards me or any of my own biases. This is not about me. I fully accept that Leaf fans prefer Matthews to Laine, and generally will not say positive things about Laine, but there was no need for you to respond to something in the way that you did, considering it was not addressed to you and did not discuss Matthews. And you should be smarter to know how it comes off when a Leaf fan instantly pushes back on a pro-Laine viewpoint.
Oh yeah call me stupid in a post you dont have the balls to quote me in. Big internet tough guy here. I pointed out why I think your wrong. If you got a problem with that you can address me directly...or dont.
 
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93LEAFS

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You didn't bash Laine, but you criticized him in a subtle way, and then inserted Matthews into the discussion. Again, you are one of the smarter posters on this website. I think you know exactly why this stuff gets tiring to see. The Leaf fan above trying to defend you doesn't appear to be intelligent enough to spot what I think we both know you are aware of.

And don't try to turn this towards me or any of my own biases. This is not about me. I fully accept that Leaf fans prefer Matthews to Laine, and generally will not say positive things about Laine, but there was no need for you to respond to something in the way that you did, considering it was not addressed to you and did not discuss Matthews. And you should be smarter to know how it comes off when a Leaf fan instantly pushes back on a pro-Laine viewpoint.
I'm pushing back that he's a once in a generation goal-scorer, when the evidence hasn't really supported that. You've claimed Laine as the best player in that draft despite mounting evidence that he isn't. It seems stubbornness from how you viewed them 3 years ago can't change. Then you used what I would deem fairly flawed logic to dismiss a bunch of evidence showing Matthews is his equal as a goal-scorer, saying Matthews can only score 40 if goal scoring stays high. If you want to challenge the credibility of my viewpoint, then expect yours to be challenged back. I didn't make this about who was giving the opinion, you did.

But, whatever, this is about Lafreniere.
 

Daximus

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You didn't bash Laine, but you criticized him in a subtle way, and then inserted Matthews into the discussion. Again, you are one of the smarter posters on this website. I think you know exactly why this stuff gets tiring to see. The Leaf fan above trying to defend you doesn't appear to be intelligent enough to spot what I think we both know you are aware of.

And don't try to turn this towards me or any of my own biases. This is not about me. I fully accept that Leaf fans prefer Matthews to Laine, and generally will not say positive things about Laine, but there was no need for you to respond to something in the way that you did, considering it was not addressed to you and did not discuss Matthews. And you should be smarter to know how it comes off when a Leaf fan instantly pushes back on a pro-Laine viewpoint.

Well as a Jet fan I'd trade Laine for Matthews any day of the week. He's been the more impressive player and drives play all on his own. You can put him with anyone and he can succeed. To say that Laine has higher goal scoring potential then Matthews at this rate is a little disingenuous considering Matthews obliterates him in scoring goals at 5v5. Laine might be the better PP scorer because of his one-timer but even that may not last very long. If Laine was put with Zach Hyman, Laine fans would rage that he's not being utilized properly and needs to play with the best players in the world to succeed. Whereas Matthews just does it and does it well.
 

Insidefi

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The Leaf fan above trying to defend you doesn't appear to be intelligent enough to spot what I think we both know you are aware of.

Haha this is a great way to get people to take your point seriously. Or are other people on this site not "intelligent" enough to understand what you really meant when you said this?
 
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Miamipuck

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What is this thread about again?

It's about the self proclaimed scout that watches every game of every draft eligible player and will tell you all about them and if you should so disagree with his opinion you're stupid and know nothing.

I can't believe you're even asking such a question, be careful the Wizard of Oz will put you on ignore. lol

I'm pushing back that he's a once in a generation goal-scorer, when the evidence hasn't really supported that. You've claimed Laine as the best player in that draft despite mounting evidence that he isn't. It seems stubbornness from how you viewed them 3 years ago can't change. Then you used what I would deem fairly flawed logic to dismiss a bunch of evidence showing Matthews is his equal as a goal-scorer, saying Matthews can only score 40 if goal scoring stays high. If you want to challenge the credibility of my viewpoint, then expect yours to be challenged back. I didn't make this about who was giving the opinion, you did.

But, whatever, this is about Lafreniere.

It absolutely isn't just read the above and it will all be clearer.

BTW, I opened the thread looking to see some info about LaFreniere as I don't have ample opportunity to watch many prospects and don't lie my ass off and say that I do, and to my surprise it's all about the guy that does (lie).
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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Oh yeah call me stupid in a post you dont have the balls to quote me in. Big internet tough guy here. I pointed out why I think your wrong. If you got a problem with that you can address me directly...or dont.

Sent you a PM since you are so angry you didn't get a reply.

I'm pushing back that he's a once in a generation goal-scorer, when the evidence hasn't really supported that. You've claimed Laine as the best player in that draft despite mounting evidence that he isn't. It seems stubbornness from how you viewed them 3 years ago can't change. Then you used what I would deem fairly flawed logic to dismiss a bunch of evidence showing Matthews is his equal as a goal-scorer, saying Matthews can only score 40 if goal scoring stays high. If you want to challenge the credibility of my viewpoint, then expect yours to be challenged back. I didn't make this about who was giving the opinion, you did.

But, whatever, this is about Lafreniere.

This is a message board where fans give opinions. This is not a science experiment. There is no magic science potion that proves the Leafs will win the Stanley Cup, Super Bowl, the World Series, the World Cup and the Masters. This approach against me is not going to work. I'm allowed to give opinions you might not agree with. Your "evidence" doesn't do anything for your argument or push back on mine. I think everyone who posts here knows the evidence well enough, and doesn't need to hear about the certifiable facts that Leaf fans try to shove down everyone's through. And I think I stated a pretty realistic opinion and one many agree with that Laine will be a 40-50 goal scorer per season. There was no one else that felt the need to point out the obvious that it might not end up being true.

I think we both know that you didn't like my post because you thought it was a slight towards Matthews. This is the new thing around here after Laine had a bad season where now you can't compliment Laine's goal-scoring as being the best in his generation or predict he'll be the best goal-scorer in this generation without upsetting a certain fan base. It wasn't a slight about Matthews. It wasn't a slight about Stamkos. If Laine doesn't prove himself to score 40-50 per season, it won't be a slight towards him. There's one guy that has done it with regularity. It's not easy to do.

But now since you've made this into a Matthews vs. Laine debate, I'm going to state what I stated a few days ago when a Leaf fan arrogantly proclaimed the same thing in another thread that I was posting in. What is this new thing from Leaf fans that we aren't allowed to say Laine will have a better career? This is exactly why the Leafs fan base gets a bad reputation. It's not as if I said Cogliano or Kruger will have a better career than Matthews. Laine is a huge talent. If he's the second best player from the current generation during his career, he'll have a better career than Eichel and Aho and Barkov and MacKinnon. Are all those fan bases trying to shut down discussion?

It is not a decided matter, either way, and I'm not going to stand for this rhetoric in a discussion I take part in. If you want to act disingenuous and tell me I'm not allowed to hold that opinion when you are citing stats that favored Matthews by a completely negligible margin at this point, I'm simply not going to take part, and you can argue against someone else.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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Dec 8, 2013
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Well as a Jet fan I'd trade Laine for Matthews any day of the week. He's been the more impressive player and drives play all on his own. You can put him with anyone and he can succeed. To say that Laine has higher goal scoring potential then Matthews at this rate is a little disingenuous considering Matthews obliterates him in scoring goals at 5v5. Laine might be the better PP scorer because of his one-timer but even that may not last very long. If Laine was put with Zach Hyman, Laine fans would rage that he's not being utilized properly and needs to play with the best players in the world to succeed. Whereas Matthews just does it and does it well.

And you can think that, but I was essentially told that I can't hold the opinion that Laine will be the only 40-50 goal-scorer of his generation. Do you agree with that type of rhetoric? I'm not particularly interested in who does and doesn't think Matthews is better than Laine. Matthews is only part of the discussion now because Leaf fans felt slighted.
 

TheBeastCoast

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And you can think that, but I was essentially told that I can't hold the opinion that Laine will be the only 40-50 goal-scorer of his generation. Do you agree with that type of rhetoric? I'm not particularly interested in who does and doesn't think Matthews is better than Laine. Matthews is only part of the discussion now because Leaf fans felt slighted.
You literally just jumped to that conclusion because Leafs had the audacity to list Matthews name along with the other top goal scorers in hockey. Like this entire thing is you blowing up a rather minor point into something it really doesn't need to be...
 

Agent Zub

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Jan 2, 2015
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Sent you a PM since you are so angry you didn't get a reply.



This is a message board where fans give opinions. This is not a science experiment. There is no magic science potion that proves the Leafs will win the Stanley Cup, Super Bowl, the World Series, the World Cup and the Masters. This approach against me is not going to work. I'm allowed to give opinions you might not agree with. Your "evidence" doesn't do anything for your argument or push back on mine. I think everyone who posts here knows the evidence well enough, and doesn't need to hear about the certifiable facts that Leaf fans try to shove down everyone's through. And I think I stated a pretty realistic opinion and one many agree with that Laine will be a 40-50 goal scorer per season. There was no one else that felt the need to point out the obvious that it might not end up being true.

I think we both know that you didn't like my post because you thought it was a slight towards Matthews. This is the new thing around here after Laine had a bad season where now you can't compliment Laine's goal-scoring as being the best in his generation or predict he'll be the best goal-scorer in this generation without upsetting a certain fan base. It wasn't a slight about Matthews. It wasn't a slight about Stamkos. If Laine doesn't prove himself to score 40-50 per season, it won't be a slight towards him. There's one guy that has done it with regularity. It's not easy to do.

But now since you've made this into a Matthews vs. Laine debate, I'm going to state what I stated a few days ago when a Leaf fan arrogantly proclaimed the same thing in another thread that I was posting in. What is this new thing from Leaf fans that we aren't allowed to say Laine will have a better career? This is exactly why the Leafs fan base gets a bad reputation. It's not as if I said Cogliano or Kruger will have a better career than Matthews. Laine is a huge talent. If he's the second best player from the current generation during his career, he'll have a better career than Eichel and Aho and Barkov and MacKinnon. Are all those fan bases trying to shut down discussion?

It is not a decided matter, either way, and I'm not going to stand for this rhetoric in a discussion I take part in. If you want to act disingenuous and tell me I'm not allowed to hold that opinion when you are citing stats that favored Matthews by a completely negligible margin at this point, I'm simply not going to take part, and you can argue against someone else.

i've learnt to just skip every post from you
 

ForsbergForever

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2 goals, 2 assists on his 18th birthday to give him a total of 23 points in 9 games on the season!

I think its going to be back and forth between him and Byfield all season for most points and most likely first overall next June. Lafreniere has everything you could want in a hockey player and isn't tiny by any means at 6'1/200lbs but Byfield's combination of size and scoring might be too much for some teams to pass up depending who ends up with the pick.
 

SympathyForTheDevils

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Lafrenière now leads the Q with 23 points in 9 games, and his 2 linemates are 2nd and 3rd in league scoring. That means he has 44% more points than the closest non-linemate (Sokolov, with 16). That's a lot.

Other fun fact: Lafrenière has contributed to roughly 60% of Rimouski's goals, and so far this season, Rimouski is the 2nd best offensive team in the league. For comparison, Lafrenière has more points so far than Gatineau, Baie-Comeau and Bathurst have total goals.
 
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