HF Habs: Expansion Draft 2021 (Part 3)

[Benstheman]

I'm willing to bet Drouin is the pick, top 6 forwards will be hard for them to get even those with Drouins warts and Drouin prbly needs a change.

I think it make sense. He could be a good bet for them.

 

[MTL-rules]

Prior to the last expansion draft, we didn't have playoff success and a rising youth core with vets. I understand your point but the circumstances are different for us.

I'm not appose to just letting them take one of Allen, Drouin, or Chiarot. However, I'm probably protecting Chiarot over Edmundson and most don't agree with that. IMO, Chiarot > Edmundson and I would be talking to Chiarot on what kind of deal he wants after next season (right now or very soon).

Ideally, they take Allen, and we flip Drouin with a pick for Tarasenko. Then we go sign someone to back-up Price.

I understand your point of view, but I disagree, espacially when it comes to Edmundson, who I believe is a little bit better, younger and signed to a longer term... I like Chiarot's leadership, physicality and PK play and that's why I feel, even if he's going to be UFA in 1 year, he'll be selected by Seattle before Allen.

I do agree with you that the best case scenario would be signing Martinez, but Boston has major need on defence and has a ton of money. They won't be able to lure Hamilton for obvious reasons so I feel they'll trow the bank at Martinez.

I think this cup run was a little fluke and we should stay the course and build on the new core, not think we are cup contender... don't forget Dallas didn't even make the playoffs this year.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I understand your point of view, but I disagree, espacially when it comes to Edmundson, who I believe is a little bit better, younger and signed to a longer term... I like Chiarot's leadership, physicality and PK play and that's why I feel, even if he's going to be UFA in 1 year, he'll be selected by Seattle before Allen.

I do agree with you that the best case scenario would be signing Martinez, but Boston has major need on defence and has a ton of money. They won't be able to lure Hamilton for obvious reasons so I feel they'll trow the bank at Martinez.

I think this cup run was a little fluke and we should stay the course and build on the new core, not think we are cup contender... don't forget Dallas didn't even make the playoffs this year.

I am no record saying I didn't like Edmundson's term. I wanted it to be 2 or 3 years. He fit well with Petry which helped us but I feel Chiarot shelters Weber better than Edmundson helps Petry. It's small difference but I value Chiarot over Edmundson. Some think Edmundson's term is a good thing but I feel it's a negative. Remember, guys like Chiarot and Edmundson are bridges to Romanov, Guhle, Norliner, Harris. Romanov will be ready for a top 4D role after next year IMO.

Martinez would be a target if we loose one of Chiarot or Edmundson. But it's not a guaranteed signing. I agree with that. Do you feel Romanov is ready for a top 4D role next year?

Series wins against the Pens, Leafs, Jets, Knights are not a fluke. The road we took to get there does have a story but the road we actually were forced to take and how we went through the challenges was not a fluke. A strong team D with Price and with a rising youth is no need to be negative or pessimistic. And yes, we can miss the playoffs next year. What is your point? We should rebuild instead? Don't try to make the team better? Trying to understand this "fluke" narrative? Is it we are not that good and should trade Price while we can? Explain!

 

[417]

I'm categorically opposed to giving the Kraken anything to not touch one of our unprotected.

They can take whoever isn't left unprotected - it's just 1 player, that's the worst case scenario.

No reason to start moving heaven and earth so that they don't touch the 12th player on the roster.

 

[CDN24]

We do have to expose 2 forwards/1D and 1G under contract for next year.

If we assume that protecting Anderson, Toffoli, Gallagher and Kotkaniemi is a must. Similarly Petry/Weber and one of Chiarot and Edmundson must be protected. lets assume Edmundson for arguments sake
No matter if we do 7/3/1 or 8/1 the only other forwards that meet the min exposure criteria are Byron/Evans/Drouin. Whatever we do two of those have to be exposed.
Going 7/3/1 allows you to protect one of those guys along with lehkonen's RFA rights and someone's UFA rights (Armia Danault tatar perry etc). I doubt Seattle wastes a pick on a UFA but could on an RFA as they do get his rights then.
One D at least has to be exposed- Kulak meets that criteria
Allen is the goalie exposed because of Price's NMC.

Are any of these pieces (Allen/Chiarot/ Drouin/Evans/Byron or Lehkonen's RFA rights worth spending an asset to protect (making a side deal)

IMO only Allen maybe given the fact that we have struggled so much to find a capable backup to Price. So do you explore that or do you leave other attractive assets unprotected hoping they grab one of those instead. Ie hope they go Drouin/Chiarot instead. To this team IMO, Allen >Chiarot> (drouin or Evans or byron or lehkonen rights). Ordinarily I would say go 4/4/1 and protect the 4 d but if that increases chance of losing Allen - No.

Have to remember we won't be party to everything MB knows re where Drouin is at, where Danault's extension talks are, what discussions he has had with Seattle etc. So when the list comes out don't freak until after the actual draft- we don't know everything Bergie is privy too. That said I will be the 1st one doing exactly that.

Teams prepared for this draft better, lots of expiring UFA contracts- the forwards available look real thin.

 

[MTL-rules]

I am no record saying I didn't like Edmundson's term. I wanted it to be 2 or 3 years. He fit well with Petry which helped us but I feel Chiarot shelters Weber better than Edmundson helps Petry. It's small difference but I value Chiarot over Edmundson. Some think Edmundson's term is a good thing but I feel it's a negative. Remember, guys like Chiarot and Edmundson are bridges to Romanov, Guhle, Norliner, Harris. Romanov will be ready for a top 4D role after next year IMO.

Martinez would be a target if we loose one of Chiarot or Edmundson. But it's not a guaranteed signing. I agree with that. Do you feel Romanov is ready for a top 4D role next year?

Series wins against the Pens, Leafs, Jets, Knights are not a fluke. The road we took to get there does have a story but the road we actually were forced to take and how we went through the challenges was not a fluke. A strong team D with Price and with a rising youth is no need to be negative or pessimistic. And yes, we can miss the playoffs next year. What is your point? We should rebuild instead? Don't try to make the team better? Trying to understand this "fluke" narrative? Is it we are not that good and should trade Price while we can? Explain!

Yes, I feel we should trade Price, his value will never be that high... but it won't happen, not now, not after the cup finals... even if I was the GM, I wouldn't have the balls to do it.

But, I feel, we should trade Weber, Byron and Gallagher and build with Suzuki and Caufield. We are still lacking major offensive tools and should aim for it, the defence while good is old and slow which will burn us again in the regular season and left us exposed against fast teams in the PO (TB, Col, none-chocker TO, Carolina, etc.). As for Price, I guess we would have to wait another year and it will be too long and almost impossible to trade him.

I see this cup run as a great learning experience for the young core, not an exemple that this team is now a cup contender and only needs a couple of secondary additions to win it all. We are a lot more like Dallas than TB, Wash or cup winning Chicago team.

 

[dcyhabs]

Article on how players did in the playoffs in reference to the expansion draft. Canadiens players who helped or hurt their protection chances during the playoff run. I'll give Evans more respect, Chiarot's stats don't look good, same for Anderson, Kotkaniemi and Caufield are offense over defense.

 

[CHfan1]

If the Habs expose Evans (by protecting 4 defenceman) I could see Seattle taking him. If they take a defenceman I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Kulak.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes, I feel we should trade Price, his value will never be that high... but it won't happen, not now, not after the cup finals... even if I was the GM, I wouldn't have the balls to do it.

But, I feel, we should trade Weber, Byron and Gallagher and build with Suzuki and Caufield. We are still lacking major offensive tools and should aim for it, the defence while good is old and slow which will burn us again in the regular season and left us exposed against fast teams in the PO (TB, Col, none-chocker TO, Carolina, etc.). As for Price, I guess we would have to wait another year and it will be too long and almost impossible to trade him.

I see this cup run as a great learning experience for the young core, not an exemple that this team is now a cup contender and only needs a couple of secondary additions to win it all. We are a lot more like Dallas than TB, Wash or cup winning Chicago team.

So you want to move to youth faster than I wanna. That's the difference. I feel like we are knocking on the top 10 door and we should try to win with what we have while we have good seasons of Price left.

Trading Weber, Gallagher, Byron will require retention and low returns in this flat cap. Your timing is off with all due respect. Strong division or not, we have no choice but to try to improve the team in this window of vets/youth with strong team D in front of Price strategy. Reality

Yes, we could miss the playoffs. But accepting that and trying to unload contracts with term is not a smart time to make that direction IMO.

 

[dcyhabs]

If Seattle is analytics driven they won't take Chiarot. People may like him but his advanced stats point to a D who gets a lot of hits and blocked shots because when he's on the ice the other team has the puck in his zone a lot.

Evans had way better stats than I thought, but he's had enough concussions to cause concern.

I'd expect Lekhonen, Allen, or Drouin to be taken...

 

[CDN24]

If the Habs expose Evans (by protecting 4 defenceman) I could see Seattle taking him. If they take a defenceman I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Kulak.

If he goes 7/3/1, I would protect Evans too. Rather loose one of the bigger salaries and as you say Kulak could be the guy. He is younger and cheaper than Chiarot. Not sure how Seattle will want to use their Cap space. I think Ron Francis will realize the players and deals are not there this time to build an immediate winner so he may want to spend his cap space on side deals to take on cap problems in exchange for futures. What will edm give you to take Neal, what would flyers do to be rid of voracek contract. how desperate are Blues to move Tarasenko? Seattle maybe becomes the third team in that deal to retain $$. Fully expect Seattle to be more interested in futures than a win now approach if they are honest with themselves in terms of what is available.

 

[MTL-rules]

So you want to move to youth faster than I wanna. That's the difference. I feel like we are knocking on the top 10 door and we should try to win with what we have while we have good seasons of Price left.

Trading Weber, Gallagher, Byron will require retention and low returns in this flat cap. Your timing is off with all due respect. Strong division or not, we have no choice but to try to improve the team in this window of vets/youth with strong team D in front of Price strategy. Reality

Yes, we could miss the playoffs. But accepting that and trying to unload contracts with term is not a smart time to make that direction IMO.

Except for Byron, I don't feel the other two have negative value (not yet for Gallagher, give it a couple of years)... Byron was always a bad signing... anyways, my goal is too aim to add as much talent as we can. In order to do that, we need to clear cap space.

We'll see what the future holds...

 

[Scriptor]

I'm categorically opposed to giving the Kraken anything to not touch one of our unprotected.

They can take whoever isn't left unprotected - it's just 1 player, that's the worst case scenario.

No reason to start moving heaven and earth so that they don't touch the 12th player on the roster.

I dont look at it as trying to prevent them from taking a non core player, but rather as. amenais of offloading Cap space.

If I could get them to choose Byron, a player I believe it would be harder to straight out trade to another team then, let's say, than Chiarot with only one year remaining on his contract, it would help us free up precious Cap room and I would be inclined to add an incentive.

I never say categorically opposed if it tenables another opportunity we would benefit from.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Except for Byron, I don't feel the other two have negative value (not yet for Gallagher, give it a couple of years)... Byron was always a bad signing... anyways, my goal is too aim to add as much talent as we can. In order to do that, we need to clear cap space.

We'll see what the future holds...

Honestly, I don't see us signing this massive impactful UFA with any cap space that is created. Byron showed his value in the playoffs and his cap hit for a bottom 6 assets is not ideal yes.

I actually value Byron's ability to play both wings and in any role we ask him to play in our bottom 6. The Byron / Evans / Lehkonen line did well for us in making the playoffs and they went back to it for games 4 and 5 against Tampa cause they felt they needed a 2nd shutdown line. They performed well considering who they were up against.

I'm open to freeing up cap space but for who?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I dont look at it as trying to prevent them from taking a non core player, but rather as. amenais of offloading Cap space.

If I could get them to choose Byron, a player I believe it would be harder to straight out trade to another team then, let's say, than Chiarot with only one year remaining on his contract, it would help us free up precious Cap room and I would be inclined to add an incentive.

I never say categorically opposed if it tenables another opportunity we would benefit from.

The thing about opening up cap space to me is of value but who we going to sign? Or are we just opening up cap space just to have it? Or is it to sign Armia?

If you are Martinez and the Habs loose Allen vs Chiarot to Seattle, do you sign with the Habs if we still have our top 4D in place? I have my doubts about that. If one of Chiarot or Edmundson get taken by Seattle, I can see Martinez being interested

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Article on how players did in the playoffs in reference to the expansion draft. Canadiens players who helped or hurt their protection chances during the playoff run. I'll give Evans more respect, Chiarot's stats don't look good, same for Anderson, Kotkaniemi and Caufield are offense over defense.

pretty interesting article

 

[417]

I dont look at it as trying to prevent them from taking a non core player, but rather as. amenais of offloading Cap space.

If I could get them to choose Byron, a player I believe it would be harder to straight out trade to another team then, let's say, than Chiarot with only one year remaining on his contract, it would help us free up precious Cap room and I would be inclined to add an incentive.

I never say categorically opposed if it tenables another opportunity we would benefit from.

Good point - I suppose in this specific situation, when you're trying to offload Byron either way it could make sense. Given that you're likely going to have to pay a premium to get someone to take him anyway.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If the Habs expose Evans (by protecting 4 defenceman) I could see Seattle taking him. If they take a defenceman I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Kulak.

Would you take Kulak over Allen? Someone else said recently that the selection of D Seattle will have is good.

 

[MTL-rules]

Honestly, I don't see us signing this massive impactful UFA with any cap space that is created. Byron showed his value in the playoffs and his cap hit for a bottom 6 assets is not ideal yes.

I actually value Byron's ability to play both wings and in any role we ask him to play in our bottom 6. The Byron / Evans / Lehkonen line did well for us in making the playoffs and they went back to it for games 4 and 5 against Tampa cause they felt they needed a 2nd shutdown line. They performed well considering who they were up against.

I'm open to freeing up cap space but for who?

If we keep Price, the cup run might intrigue some UFas... but I would much prefer trading for a franchise player if available. Anyways it's all speculation and it's too beautifull outside to waste it on the screen, so have a nice day.

 

[Gustave]

I'm categorically opposed to giving the Kraken anything to not touch one of our unprotected.

They can take whoever isn't left unprotected - it's just 1 player, that's the worst case scenario.

No reason to start moving heaven and earth so that they don't touch the 12th player on the roster.

Couldn’t agree more. Fact is, we are losing someone, just like every other team.
I’m not willing to create another Vegas, no way.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Looming large over everything is whether Danault will re-sign, but without knowing that I'm starting to lean towards protecting 3-7-1. I just worry about losing Evans and Danault - I think that would be pretty devastating. Keeping them both would be quite helpful, especially if all 4 centers improve next regular season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Looming large over everything is whether Danault will re-sign, but without knowing that I'm starting to lean towards protecting 3-7-1. I just worry about losing Evans and Danault - I think that would be pretty devastating. Keeping them both would be quite helpful, especially if all 4 centers improve next regular season.

It's going to come down to one of Drouin, Allen, Edmundson/Chiarot. Imagine our fan base if Drouin is protected over Evans?

Price

Petry
Weber
Chiarot or Edmundson

Kotkaniemi
Danault
Toffoli
Anderson
Gallagher
Lehkonen
Evans

 

[CHfan1]

Would you take Kulak over Allen? Someone else said recently that the selection of D Seattle will have is good.

I think it depends. I think they are going to try and sign Driedger out of Florida as an UFA. I could also see them taking Adin Hill from Arizona, maybe Khudobin from Dallas.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

It's going to come down to one of Drouin, Allen, Edmundson/Chiarot. Imagine our fan base if Drouin is protected over Evans?

Price

Petry
Weber
Chiarot or Edmundson

Kotkaniemi
Danault
Toffoli
Anderson
Gallagher
Lehkonen
Evans

I like that list - I think that's what it will be unless there are signings before Saturday or also unless MB knows that Danault will not sign.

 

[dcyhabs]

It will be interesting to see whether the group in Seattle thinks they will be competitive immediately. It didn't take much for Vegas, maybe 4-5 teams really botching the draft and giving them 1-2 really good players each. Talent is thinner after the last expansion draft so Seattle has a tough job.

MB will have to make sure he's not one of the botching GMs. Hard to see most of the guys the habs have available becoming stars, though. Conceivably Evans, I suppose, or Drouin, he could really find himself in a new market after a mental reset.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think it depends. I think they are going to try and sign Driedger out of Florida as an UFA. I could also see them taking Adin Hill from Arizona, maybe Khubodin from Dallas.

I would pick Allen over the last two and then try to sign Driedger after the expansion draft