Post-Game Talk: EX 1: Well. That sucked.

[StreetHawk]

NHL teams seems to only ice their better lineups at home. Been that way for a while now it seems. So, you get these mismatches in pre-season.

6 pre-season games, so your regulars will get either 3 or 4 games. They need to come together quickly and not repeat the past 3 seasons of these terrible starts and be done by the quarter mark.

 

[Ernie]

Did you maybe consider that Tocchet was looking for the level of desire of the players? How much they wanted to win. OR heaven for bid, how badly a player wanted to be on the big squad or in the NHL?
Maybe he was looking for payback.

Maybe he was "coaching up" like Rutherford's "managing up" showing upper management the lack of skill on the farm?

You think that a marginal player running around taking the heads off of NHL players in a meaningless 10-0 pre-season game is going to win him a roster spot?

 

[Vector]

I gleamed no information from this game. Learned nothing of value.

 

[THRILLHOIAF]

I wrote a recap for CanucksArmy...but I think it would be cruel to share it. Hard to take much from this one. Felt like Tocchet and co wanted to just throw everyone in the deep end of the pool and see who showed up.

Höglander, Raty, McWard, Irwin, and Studnicka were game and played excellent (for a 10-0 blowout). Loved Hoglander's feistiness, the reverse hit on Gilbert was nasty. Love that SOMEONE on this club plays with an edge. The NHL club will need it considering the dearth of size and toughness outside of Soucy, Miller, and <checks notes> tbd

Hirose, Joshua, Suter, Sasson, and Rathbone were fine, but you'd have liked to see more from the NHL vets. Rathbone and Sasson did the most with their TOI to try and push the needle. Hirose/Joshua/Suter looked completely content to just sit back and watch the clock. Disappointing. This is Joshua's second camp with the club where he's been a no-show, but turns it on for the competitive preseason games....hopefully that's the case this year too.

Woo, Juulsen were situated in top pairing minutes and got crushed accordingly as neither are that guy. They were basically the fall guys for last night. Juulsen will rebound and likely play 18-25 NHL games this year with Hughes. Woo, I don't know. His shot is still suspect as hell for an RD. Good hands and puck movement when activating off the line. But one-timers and point shots have yet to improve.

Podkolzin...man, I feel bad watching him play hockey. The guy is just so self-aware every stride. You can SEE him thinking and processing the game. Such that his actions always feel too late. When he does do something with confidence he usually skates himself into trouble, or loses the puck and resorts to just a defensive position swimming around the slot with his stick out-stretched. The guy just doesn't have "it"

Klimovich, I dont get why people are dogging on him. It took MONUMENTAL strides in his game to get him from healthy scratch, fourth line status, to an active and healthy contributing role on the 4th line in Abbotsford. Anyone expecting him to light it up or show NHL 4th line potential against Calgary's top six and 3 of their top-4 D were out to lunch. If everything breaks right, the kid will be a servicable middle six contributor in the AHL this season.

Aidan McDonough will probably pot 20-25 goals in the AHL this year, mostly on the power play. But I dont see anything in his game that says he can be an NHLer. He's young, so that's good. But his off-puck work is NHL Zack MacEwen-like, only way softer. Got bodied at one point in the neutral zone by a check. Just constantly chasing the puck, never working enough to strip the puck possessor. Just an opportunistic goalscorer it feels. No PK time either says a lot. Going to be in tough getting an NHL cup of coffee if there's no utility to his game


Anyways, if you DID want to see the writeup and click all the ads so my boss is happy, that'd be rad!

The Preseasies: Silovs gives up 7 goals as Canucks get annihilated 10-0 in preseason debut

Ah yes, we've arrived at every Canucks fan's favourite part of the pre...

canucksarmy.com

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Artur, what the hell was that?

 

[LuckyDay]

One thing about the game is when Hoglander got run through a fight started, but if you watch again Hogs got up, shook it off and became part of a 3 on 2 - basically he took it for the team.
You can see the disappointment on his face when the whistle blew stopping it and the fight was breaking out.

Its an interesting scenario where you stand up for your teammate according to "the code". But these guys were scrubs who are not going to play an NHL game but are still fighting for a job. Was this situation the "right thing to do" or was it an excuse because of preseason?

 

[theguardianII]

You think that a marginal player running around taking the heads off of NHL players in a meaningless 10-0 pre-season game is going to win him a roster spot?

Do you know what an energy guy is?
Do you know what Reeves and Lucic roles are?
Why Tampa traded for Jeannot?

Would I want a Ballerina or Tarzan on my 4th line?

This is a small team and they need to play bigger than they are. Attitude can be a determining factors.

An old story;

Gordie Howe at 60+ playing a alumni game against some university.

So a kid is hot dogging it around, Howe says "hey kid we are out here just to help the cause, there is no need to embarrass us" the kid answers "too bad old man" and skates away. At a later faceoff P Esposito see's the kid withering on the ice and asks Howe what happened, Howe answers "I speared him in the nuts, he may have more respect now"

The point being pride, respect and even at 60+ not being embarrassed.

If that had happened 20 years earlier Howe would have "tuned him up".

How badly do marginal players want to be on the roster? Especially on this tiny soft team. There are 25 marginal players trying for one or two spots, stand out

 

[Diogenes92]

Considering that many of these guys are slated to be immediate callups and depth players throughout the coming season, it would've been nice to see a bit more from some of them. Even in individual bursts. I get that Calgary iced half of their main roster, but you still want to see a few guys step up and impress in those underdog situations.

Raty looked decent a couple times. Hoglander had one nice reverse hit.

Hoglander and Podkolzin have regressed a lot. They did not look this ineffective in years past. Their development has been handled brutally.

The defensive depth on this team is very concerning. Juulsen looks like a bottom pairing AHL guy without Hughes to support him. Woo looked nervous. Hirose was fine.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Considering that many of these guys are slated to be immediate callups and depth players throughout the coming season, it would've been nice to see a bit more from some of them. Even in individual bursts. I get that Calgary iced half of their main roster, but you still want to see a few guys step up and impress in those underdog situations.

Raty looked decent a couple times. Hoglander had one nice reverse hit.

Hoglander and Podkolzin have regressed a lot. They did not look this ineffective in years past. Their development has been handled brutally.

The defensive depth on this team is very concerning. Juulsen looks like a bottom pairing AHL guy without Hughes to support him. Woo looked nervous. Hirose was fine.

Totally agree..even though there was a big divide in the quality of the two rosters..It would have been nice to see certain players emerge from the pack...Did'nt really see it though, it was mostly just a wash of men vs boys.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

One fight in the first period of a ten nothing blowout in a pre-season game?

.......

 

[CherryToke]

For a team preaching "good start", this should've been aired on comedy central. Start off with a speech from Tocchet about proving the doubters wrong

 

[MS]

Eh, it's pretty standard. I don't think a lot of veterans even leave their team city. They leave the exhibition travel to the guys in dogfights for spots, and let the big names play for the fans at home.

Yeah, I think it's a thing where the veterans are 'rewarded' with an extra night or two at home - and less travel wear-and-tear - plus you're trying to give the STH crowd the best home product.

It's been this way forever and I've seen lots of 5-1 type games over the years where the road team barely had a quality scoring chance. This was just a really extreme result where we dressed an extra-bad team, Calgary dressed an extra-good team, and our goalies barely made a difficult save all night.

I gleamed no information from this game. Learned nothing of value.

I learned that Akito Hirose could play 21 minutes in a 10-0 game with a fringe partner and still hold his own. That's the one big positive from this game - the best prospect playing in this game was put in the worst situation imaginable and kept his head and was maybe the best Canuck on the ice.

Studnicka also outplayed Aman, which is an interesting battle to watch.

 

[1440]

I heard the same post-game interview with Tocchet but was disappointed nobody pressed him on the rationale for the decision to send a roster like that to Calgary in the first place.

To me, every pre-season game should be valuable. These games help get your players ready for the opener; and showcase the talents of bubble players who are still in the mix for depth positions.

But what did the Canucks learn from this game? What value was it? Other than to prove that a lot of players in Abbotsford this season really aren't that close to being ready for the NHL.

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive. But for past two seasons, the Canucks had lousy training camps and crapped the bed so badly at the start of the regular season, that they were done by the U.S. Thanksgiving.

Don't want to single you out, but I wouldn't read too much into the score in a game like this.

NST had the shots as 26-26, chances as 27-18 to the Flames, xG as 2.97-2.21, and unblocked shot attempts at 42-39, so though it should have been a comfortable victory, by most metrics it was not a blow-out. Other models evaluated the Flames' chances similarly.

To put it into context, the Flames scoring 10 on 2.97 xG was the largest over-performance in xG in the entire NST database (since 2007-2008). The Jets scoring 9 on 2.02 xG in 2011 vs the Flyers is the next closest. Outscoring your xG by >6 (this was >7) is something like a 1/10,800 event, or less than a 0.01% probability.

Obviously blind luck (as in the 1-0) goal isn't the only factor in scoring 10 goals on 26 shots and 3 xG. It was a perfect storm of Silovs and Sawchenko letting in a couple softies, Calgary generating chances that were better than xG models typically classify them as (farther out, but with pre-shot movement or screens) and Calgary just picking corners. Huberdeau is a good player, but I wouldn't count on him putting every single shot he takes <6 inches from the top corner this season.

In short, the score makes it look a lot worse than it was and calling out the coaching staff for icing the roster that they did is a huge over-reaction. But hey, over-reacting is the name of the game in Canuck-land. We probably would have been calling out the coaching staff for not giving veteran players enough rest if they had sent too many on this meaningless pre-season trip.

 

[Breakers]

Still saw the same trash neutral zone mindset that we've had for the past 8 or 9 years

essentially saying "No I insist, after you" to the opposing team

 

[bandwagonesque]

I gleamed no information from this game. Learned nothing of value.

I learned that Matthew Coronato is going to be a top-6 forward and that Rathbone can't defend NHL forwards below the goal line at all

 

[RichLittle]

To be honest, I don't even consider it all that embarrassing. We basically threw out an AHL squad against the Flames. It'd be embarrassed for Calgary if they didn't obliterate them. Obviously, you'd prefer not seeing such a massively lopsided game but it's a decent way to see which players can cope under pressure and which immediately panic.

I wouldn't cut anyone based on tonight but there are some definite suspects who probably don't last more than another game or two.

Typically that doesn't happen though, lopsided wins by vet teams are rare. Veterans are out for a skate, kids are the ones that try to make a mark, so they hustle. Hustle beats skill every time. Flames best player, Lidholm was a complete no show, 0 points 0 impact. Same with Anderson, didn't do much till late in the game. They were just getting warmed up.
Oilers iced a superior team to Winnipeg last night and lost. It's not really surprising.
One takeaway is that the Canuck's bubble players didn't show much of a fight. I think that's what the coaches probably look for in preseason games. They gave up without a fight.

 

[Nick Lang]

I gleamed no information from this game. Learned nothing of value.

Only that no one made the coaches decision on who to keep any tougher. Send these guys to the farm.

 

[sting101]

What were people hoping to learn or what would be reasonable? I actually abstracted a lot but it was 60 min so????.

Silovs needs seasoning and it was smart to acquire DeSmith.

I also still like the Studnicka acquisition. He can really skate and as he develops a rounded defensive game he should elevate somewhere between the 9 and 12 spot on a NHL roster

McWard has the tools to be an effective NHLer but needs polish in his own zone. If Juulsen is an option for Hughes right side then so is McWard at this stage. I'm actually excited about the signing as he's shown that the flashes of last year are more than just flashes

Hirose also could be effective as a depth guy immediately but both him and McWard need to play

Podkolzin has confidence issues but he can pull himself out of it. It's unfortunate to not get another top6 guy that can push offence at 10 but thats the reality.... deal with it.

Hoglander at the NHL level is an energy player. He doesn't have the open ice speed and skill to be skating through guys and his shot has proven to be inaccurate. He can still have Beauvillier maybe even Arvidsson upside but like Pods were not talking cerebral scorers here that you build top6 pairs off.

Raty is the promising development for me. After all the complaining about his skating he looks like he'll be fine as he gains some man strength. Really smart player with excellent positional awareness, puck distribution and a NHL level shot and release. Needs development time yes.......he's 20.

Lastly It's not like it was in Van where the home fans paid for tickets so who cares if Tocchet wanted to see what they could do without the top end talent. Even in the World Championships France Germany Switzerland Denmark etc pull off some upsets here and there. May have been a little different if we didnt start so horrendously bad.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I hope Raty gets an extended look, he’s had a pretty solid camp.

You can tell he’s very gifted with the puck and is competent at controlling the play, especially on the PP. While his skating limits him (particularly his acceleration), his offensive instincts are by far superior than anyone else in the system.

I’d be curious to see an experimental line next game where his wingers are Bains and Garland. Bains possesses a solid two way ability and Garland provides NHL speed and skill that Raty can easily work with.

I want to Raty play all the pre season games and see how he performs with different types of players and situations as teams start to dress their opening night roster.

 

[Javaman]

Meh. Don't really care about the actual score but am more concerned about Tocchet's thinking behind icing that lineup. You could count on one hand the number of players who, best case scenario, are bottom-of-the-roster players on opening night.

My speculation is he knew they would lose badly, but wanted to see the size of the fight in each player. I'm not convinced that was a good way to do this, but it appears Tocchet is the kind of coach who does. Scaffolding is always better than demoralizing, IMO.

Canucks' fans can only hope his approach leads to tangible results in the regular season.

And Podkolzin... tick-tock. Like, it's D+5 for him. Yikes.

 

[RobertKron]

Unless I'm mistaken, folks were generally happy to see the team choose not to bring in any fading NHL vets on hopeless PTOs, so I don't really fully understand the outrage over the lineup when the PTO guys are basically only brought to camp to fill out the lineup in that game.

 

[me2]

ALBEIT - 2-0 or 10-0 they didn't score enough to win a 0-0 game.

Does anyone ever score enough to win a 0-0 game?

 

[me2]

I gleamed no information from this game. Learned nothing of value.

Hirose held on OK in massacre. The rest didn't, and looked bad against NHLers. That's a good lesson on two fronts. Makes cuts pretty easy.

 

[Jay26]

One thing about the game is when Hoglander got run through a fight started, but if you watch again Hogs got up, shook it off and became part of a 3 on 2 - basically he took it for the team.
You can see the disappointment on his face when the whistle blew stopping it and the fight was breaking out.

Its an interesting scenario where you stand up for your teammate according to "the code". But these guys were scrubs who are not going to play an NHL game but are still fighting for a job. Was this situation the "right thing to do" or was it an excuse because of preseason?

I think it might be one of those things where Hoglander was annoyed to lose a scoring chance at that moment but in the grand scheme it'll send a positive message.

 

[Play]

Sigh... jeesus

I dont even know where to begin.

I recommend BJJ or some other martial art to you. It will usually result in enough confidences where you will be able to stay calm even if someone grabs you.


North America is for some reason allergic to training their police officers properly. So I can easily believe you've had a bad experience. But. You do not know why they are stopping you. There could be a suspect who looks exactly like you they are after. Also with how poorly trained the NA police are, you just really want to de-escalate your self for your own safety.


Same thing to a lesser extent with a bouncer. Often when you get physical with bouncers the bouncers a a group will make sure you wont have a good night. So its better if YOU try to de-escalate, again, for your own safety.

If you think it is just ok to fight back in all these situations, even when you are sober, then its not about alcohol, its something else.


And sorry. This derails the f*** out of the thread even more than the initial bouncer fight stories etc.

I’m always calm when someone grabs me because, and that always results in respect from the bouncers and they appreciate you for not fighting back.

However, I like that point about BJJ, it’s good to know, and sometimes if everything goes wrong, you can at least protect your loved ones.