Blue Jays Discussion: Everything sucks except the all-star: Justin Smoak

[The Nemesis]

I don't think anyone wants to trade Sanchez/Stroman/Osuna. At least, i haven't seen anyone advocating it.

I think we should move the likes of Happ, Smoak, Smith, Estrada, etc if we can get reasonable value - I think that's what most fans who want to retool want to do.

There have been people advocating a scorched earth approach. The problem is that I don't think a lot of people appreciate the fantastic bust rate on baseball prospects, even top picks. They see that in hockey if you draft a guy in the top 5, it's pretty good odds he'll at least be a decent player even if he doesn't become a superstar. In baseball you can easily see your top 5 pitcher go from front-of-the-rotation starter to non-closer pen arm if he doesn't develop control or secondary offerings. Your all-around catcher becomes worthless if he moves off the position for whatever reason because his bat is good for a catcher and not good enough anywhere else. Or that toolsy shortstop gets too big for short and never gets a hitting eye, so he becomes a batless CF.

And that's before we get into the guys who just plain don't make it through the minors because of injury or lack of any development

 

[zeke]

back to back alcs (1st playoffs in 25yrs) and everyone is angry they aren't blowing it up after a tough injured 1st half.

 

[zeke]

There have been people advocating a scorched earth approach. The problem is that I don't think a lot of people appreciate the fantastic bust rate on baseball prospects, even top picks. They see that in hockey if you draft a guy in the top 5, it's pretty good odds he'll at least be a decent player even if he doesn't become a superstar. In baseball you can easily see your top 5 pitcher go from front-of-the-rotation starter to non-closer pen arm if he doesn't develop control or secondary offerings. Your all-around catcher becomes worthless if he moves off the position for whatever reason because his bat is good for a catcher and not good enough anywhere else. Or that toolsy shortstop gets too big for short and never gets a hitting eye, so he becomes a batless CF.

And that's before we get into the guys who just plain don't make it through the minors because of injury or lack of any development

not to mention your elite prospects in hockey can be impact players the next season, while in basebl they're years away.

 

[The Nemesis]

not to mention your elite prospects in hockey can be impact players the next season, while in basebl they're years away.

True. Which also means more time for something to go horribly wrong before they even reach the majors.

 

[canucksfan]

Gurriel stats don't look good. He was injured for a while wasn't he?

Glad Vlad is number 2.

 

[zeke]

BBA is narcoleptic, always sleeping on Bo. Gotta tie the back of their head like Deuce Bigalow...he's dominated pitching across the globe.. (Jay-Z Voice)

In all seriousness though, a 49 place jump is nice. Should be 40 more by seasons end. Will be nice to get Alford back healthy getting AB's too.

to be fair, let5kng a prospect jump from nowhere to top of the list in half a season would kind of make a mockery of their lists itself.

 

[Eyedea]

Gurriel stats don't look good. He was injured for a while wasn't he?

Glad Vlad is number 2.

Yes he was injured in ST and came back too early. It's been kind of a write off year but he can do a solid and bounce back in the second half.

 

[one77]

back to back alcs (1st playoffs in 25yrs) and everyone is angry they aren't blowing it up after a tough injured 1st half.

Seriously

I would not be against trading guys like Liriano, Bautista, Tulowitzki. But Sanchez/Stroman/Osuna/JD/Pillar (still young)/etc?? Hell no. Even Smoak has to stay, with that beautiful contract of his.

Vlad and Bo

 

[canucksfan]

Yes he was injured in ST and came back too early.

That sucks. Is he playing now? I remember reading when he was signed that he had a chance to play this year. Looks very doubtful now.

It's kind of interesting to see the Jays top prospects are mostly positional players. It used to be primarily pitching. Like DJQ said, if they trade getting pitching prospects should be a priority.

 

[Eyedea]

That sucks. Is he playing now? I remember reading when he was signed that he had a chance to play this year. Looks very doubtful now.

It's kind of interesting to see the Jays top prospects are mostly positional players. It used to be primarily pitching. Like DJQ said, if they trade getting pitching prospects should be a priority.

He is but he hasn't hit well since coming back. Also struggling in the field.

 

[Kurtz]

Maybe, just maybe, Blue Jays and Yankees records will get a market correction after the break. Yanks should be nowhere near a playoff spot, just my opinion. And the Jays shouldn't be under .500. I am looking for a massive correction in the second half. We'll see.

Yankees have an actual winning % of 530 and a pyth winning percentage of 643. Jays have an actual winning % of .471 and a pyth winning percentage of .463.

If there is going to be an actual correction, we'll see the Yankees have a massive positive surge in their record, whereas the Jays will stay around where they are.

 

[zeke]

nah, yanks' hitting was just too crazy to start the year. they're not nearly that good. they've been .500ish since April and will probably stay that way.

 

[hockeywiz542]

yes he was injured in st and came back too early. It's been kind of a write off year but he can do a solid and bounce back in the second half.

 

[hockeywiz542]

it’s pretty clear the current toronto blue jays roster isn’t a world series contender.

Not this year, and definitely not in the future.

But while everyone hears the term “rebuild” and envisions an extended period in the american league east basement, it doesn’t necessarily have to work that way.

Does this roster – one that’s played its way to a 40-45 record with three games remaining before the all-star break — need to be overhauled?

Of course.

Just as blue jays general manager ross atkins said last off-season before pushing hard to sign outfielder dexter fowler, more athleticism is needed and less reliance on the home run would be preferable.

Falling to dead last in the al in offence has punctuated that stance.

Last year’s market – whether it was free agency or trade talks – didn’t allow for that to happen, and the jays came into the 2017 season hoping this group could find a way to make a third-straight playoff appearance.

Without a minor miracle, that isn’t going to happen, either. Now it’s time to start considering franchise-altering changes.

But it doesn’t have to happen at all once, and there are many different paths the mark shapiro/atkins-led front office could go – not only between now and the trade deadline, but into the winter when they could really start to make significant long-term changes.

 

[King Mapes]

When do you guys expect to see Bo in the Bigs?

 

[Bad News Benning]

When do you guys expect to see Bo in the Bigs?

only Bo knows

 

[zeke]

When do you guys expect to see Bo in the Bigs?

September 2018.

 

[zeke]

Osuna an allstar.

(#sellhigh)

 

[canucksfan]

Anyone know when Alford will come back from his injury?

 

[hockeywiz542]

osuna an allstar.

(#sellhigh)

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

September 2018.

For us sober folk, July 2019. With their full first seasons coming in 2020, at which time they will make an actual impact. So, the Mike Trout route.

 

[King Mapes]

For us sober folk, July 2019. With their full first seasons coming in 2020, at which time they will make an actual impact. So, the Mike Trout route.

That long? Damn. I'm impatient I want to see these kids haha. I know patience is key but when is the last time we had 2 infield prospects like this?

 

[canucksfan]

That long? Damn. I'm impatient I want to see these kids haha. I know patience is key but when is the last time we had 2 infield prospects like this?

Delgado?

 

[Eyedea]

Delgado?

Carlos Delgado and Alex Gonzalez, though to be fair to Gonzo he never was much of a hitter in the minors.

The Blue Jays also have not had a top 10 guy on a BA list since Travis Snider in 2009. And this is also probably a cautionary tale as to why you don't rush your top prospects (specifically one that strikes out 25-30% of the time).

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

If the plan for Osuna is a permanent role in the bullpen, then absolutely we should sell high right now. We all saw the returns on good-elite relievers in the past couple of years (Ken Giles lol). Target contending teams that are starving for bullpen help (Hi Washington..... so about Robles and/or Soto.....)