McKenzie: Every Hurricanes player except Aho is available

[Lunatik]

1) Setting aside the rest of both rosters, Aho is pretty easily as good as Monahan.

2) Peters deliberately coaches a “first to 3 goals wins” style of play, meaning you spend the whole game trying to keep the other team to 2 goals or less. He doesn’t have to be worse than Gulutzan for this to have a negative effect on the team’s offensive numbers.

if you have to say "as good as" clearly one can feel one is better than the other. You can like Aho more, I like Monahan more.

As for Peters, Gulutzan neutered our offense, getting to 3 goals would have taken a miracle most nights

 

[tarheelhockey]

if you have to say "as good as" clearly one can feel one is better than the other. You can like Aho more, I like Monahan more.

As for Peters, Gulutzan neutered our offense, getting to 3 goals would have taken a miracle most nights

I was giving you “as good as” to avoid the inevitable pissing match, but I will hold firm that Aho is not worse than Monahan.

 

[Lunatik]

I was giving you “as good as” to avoid the inevitable pissing match, but I will hold firm that Aho is not worse than Monahan.

Feel free to believe what you want, I'm not the type that gets into those pissing matches. However if you want to avoid them, why even try calling me out on thinking Monahan is better? It's not like I was putting down Aho, I do think it is close.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Feel free to believe what you want, I'm not the type that gets into those pissing matches. However if you want to avoid them, why even try calling me out on thinking Monahan is better? It's not like I was putting down Aho, I do think it is close.

Because I disagree. I’m not here to try and turn this into a player vs player thread, but I do think it’s worth posting a dissenting view about what Peters was working with here. About half of our forwards suck donkey balls, but Aho and Skinner are pretty high-end offensive talents.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Also, I mean no disrespect to the Canes, but they don't have anyone as good as either Gaudreau or Monahan

Sebastian Aho just beat Monahan's career high in points. Are you really going to claim Monahan is substantively better than Aho offensively?

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[GermanPanther]

Sebastian Aho just beat Monahan's career high in points. Are you really going to claim Monahan is substantively better than Aho offensively?

Current, if Carolina really goes back into a rebuild mode, cause something gone wrong, then Monahan will be in 2 years infront of Aho.

 

[Lunatik]

Sebastian Aho just beat Monahan's career high in points. Are you really going to claim Monahan is substantively better than Aho offensively?

He beat it by a single point while playing wing in more games played. Also, where did I ever say substantially better? Are you really so defensive about your players you are just inserting words now to create arguments? This is ridiculous. I can't speak for everyone, but give me the 64 point center with size over the 65 point 5'11 winger that might maybe become a center every day of the week

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Monahan has averaged 29 goals and 62 points over the past 4 years while playing center. Aho is my favorite Canes player and I think he "can" be better than Monahan at some point, but until he does it for more than 1 season, I'm not going to be claiming he's as good.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Also, where did I ever say substantially better?

"Substantive", not "substantial". Former moreso means it's enough of a difference to be perceptible, recognized; latter means different by a lot.

So:

Are you really so defensive about your players you are just inserting words now to create arguments?

heh

I can't speak for everyone, but give me the 64 point center with size over the 65 point 5'11 winger that might maybe become a center every day of the week

That's fine. This strikes me more as a preference for two similar players than Monahan>Aho offensively, which is how I interpreted the previous comment.

Monahan has averaged 29 goals and 62 points over the past 4 years while playing center. Aho is my favorite Canes player and I think he "can" be better than Monahan at some point, but until he does it for more than 1 season, I'm not going to be claiming he's as good.

That's fair. Only thing: in terms of offensive zone impact, I think centers actually have a better chance to put up points than wingers, so in the context of Aho v Monahan offensively, are you/Method Man implying that it's more difficult for centers than wingers to score? Because that's only true off the rush, and Bill Peters teams don't really get many odd man chances.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

That's fair. Only thing: in terms of offensive zone impact, I think centers actually have a better chance to put up points than wingers, so in the context of Aho v Monahan offensively, are you/Method Man implying that it's more difficult for centers than wingers to score? Because that's only true off the rush, and Bill Peters teams don't really get many odd man chances.

Not quite. I'm saying that there are more responsibilities for a player at C than a player at W so they have to do more things well to be successful at that position. When I talk about a player being better, that is a piece of it. They have to take face-offs, they have to have much more coverage down low in their own zone, they are more often in the dirtier areas in the defensive zone, etc...

EDIT: It's less about him being C than it is about Monahan doing it for 4 straight years and Aho doing it for 1 though.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Linemates don't play a role in this discussion?

Aho puts up 65 in 78 and his most frequent linemate is Teravainen. Monahan puts up 64 in 74 and his most frequent linemate is Gaudreau. There's a healthy difference there.

I won't wade into the waters of overall player caliber and asset value, but from a pure offensive standpoint, the two players are of a comparable talent level.

Peters has yet to coach anyone of Gaudreau's caliber offensively, though.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Linemates don't play a role in this discussion?

Aho puts up 65 in 78 and his most frequent linemate is Teravainen. Monahan puts up 64 in 74 and his most frequent linemate is Gaudreau. There's a healthy difference there.

I won't wade into the waters of overall player caliber and asset value, but from a pure offensive standpoint, the two players are of a comparable talent level.

Peters has yet to coach anyone of Gaudreau's caliber offensively, though.

It can, but even the two seasons where Gaudreau put up TT type numbers (61 points and 64 points), Monahan's numbers stayed the same.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Sebastian Aho just beat Monahan's career high in points. Are you really going to claim Monahan is substantively better than Aho offensively?

Aho is a phenomenal player, and I'm not looking to get in a dick measuring contest.

However, keep in mind Monahan also played a decent chunk of this season with three major injuries requiring surgery, including needing to freeze his wrist before every single game. So pointing out Aho had a single point more in four extra games isn't incredibly important. I'll give you Aho is younger and Monahan benefits from playing with Gaudreau, but our PP was also 3rd worst in the NHL. Again, not dick measuring, just wanting to point out that saying this years career high for Monahan is not entirely as strong as you wish to point out.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

So I guess an Aho for Monahan trade is out of the question?

 

[Matthew Kaminski]

As a Hurricanes fan, I would say there is more than just Aho not available. Slavin and Teuvo are staying for sure and I don't see any way we trade away a young guy like Necas or honestly Hanifin. There's a lot of rumors of Hanifan being traded but i don't think we are shopping him teams are just interested due to his tremendous potential

 

[mondo3]

Lots of discussion on the Jet's boards about Myers or Perreault needing to be moved for cap reasons. The Jet's would be looking for draft picks, prospects or a 2C. Any potential for a trade here?

 

[Unsustainable]

This is being discussed:

To Nashville:
Skinner + Faulk + 2019 1st

To Carolina:
Rinne + Subban

 

[Unsustainable]

Lots of discussion on the Jet's boards about Myers or Perreault needing to be moved for cap reasons. The Jet's would be looking for draft picks, prospects or a 2C. Any potential for a trade here?

Myers if we move a D, Rask is likely our only center available

 

[jonlin]

It can, but even the two seasons where Gaudreau put up TT type numbers (61 points and 64 points), Monahan's numbers stayed the same.

TT put up thoose numbers for the sole reason Aho was setting him up. At the World cup, TT should have scored far more goals from Ahos setups. TT is feeding from Ahos playmaking. It`ll be interesting to see what happens if Svechnikov plays on Aho`s wing...

 

[mondo3]

Myers if we move a D, Rask is likely our only center available

Actually, that's an interesting idea....I'll throw it up on the Jet's thread to get some opinions. I think this could be a win/win trade as I think Myers would improve your D.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

TT put up thoose numbers for the sole reason Aho was setting him up. At the World cup, TT should have scored far more goals from Ahos setups. TT is feeding from Ahos playmaking. It`ll be interesting to see what happens if Svechnikov plays on Aho`s wing...

Aho was getting assists, thus points, from setting up TT. We don't know that someone else would have helped more simply because TT should have scored more in the World cup. The same way Monahan is getting goals, thus points, from Gaudreau setting him up. When it comes to points, it's a synergistic relationship and both parties benefit. Monahan was getting his 30G, 60+ points in every season, even in seasons when Guadreau's numbers weren't as great as they were this season. That tells me that his points are a product of Guadreau, which was what was implied.

 

[Notsince67]

Sebastian Aho just beat Monahan's career high in points. Are you really going to claim Monahan is substantively better than Aho offensively?

In a reverse kind of way for sure.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

It can, but even the two seasons where Gaudreau put up TT type numbers (61 points and 64 points), Monahan's numbers stayed the same.

It wasn’t my intention to insinuate that Monahan is a product of Gaudreau. If I would have thought that, I wouldn’t have called Aho and Monahan comparable offensive talents.

However, if we’re picking at aspects of Aho’s offensive game, in this case size and position, quality of linemates has some relevance the other way. I haven’t seen enough of Monahan without Gaudreau to comment, but having watched Teravainen and Lindholm with and without Aho, it’s clear who the top dog on that line is. Can the same be said about Monahan?

 

[The Faulker]

I keep reading the Kings want Skinner. What could they offer?