Player Discussion Evan Bouchard: Scoring like mad

[McShogun99]

If Bouch plays more than 20 NHL games this year, it’s a sure sign that things went badly off the rails.

Or he was to good to keep down in the AHL.

 

[BudBundy]

Or he was to good to keep down in the AHL.

Was Nuge too good to keep down at 18 yrs old and 160lbs? Maybe. Did it hurt him in the long run? Quite possibly. Could it hurt Bouchard in the long run? Absolutely. We arent winning the Cup this year, so let Bouchard play big key minutes and learn to dominate in the AHL before we plug him in. Bouchard has more cover ahead of him so I dont think we can “Jultz” him. He’s more physically mature than guys like Gagner, Nuge etc but he also plays the toughest position so I’d rather slow play him. Lets find out who Persson, Jones and Bear are before we rush Bouch.

 

[Fourier]

Was Nuge too good to keep down at 18 yrs old and 160lbs? Maybe. Did it hurt him in the long run? Quite possibly. Could it hurt Bouchard in the long run? Absolutely. We arent winning the Cup this year, so let Bouchard play big key minutes and learn to dominate in the AHL before we plug him in. Bouchard has more cover ahead of him so I dont think we can “Jultz” him. He’s more physically mature than guys like Gagner, Nuge etc but he also plays the toughest position so I’d rather slow play him. Lets find out who Persson, Jones and Bear are before we rush Bouch.

If you look at the 5 years between 2013-2014 and 2017-2018 of the 50 players chosen in the top 10 of the draft only 10 (or 20%) were not NHL regulars by there draft + 2 year. These players were:

2013 Nurse
2014 Dal Cole, H. Fleury, Virtanen
2015 Strome
2016 Juolevi, A. Nylander
2017 Makar, Glass, Tippett

Makar would have played last year if he wanted to. Glass was probably a contract decision more than a hockey decision.

Bouchard may or may not be ready but it is hardly rushing him if he looks like he belongs. He's physically mature and he has a skill set that the team could really use. If he comes in and wins a spot that would be great. Given the potential competition from the likes of Jones. Persson, Lagesson and Bear if he makes the team it will be because he earned it.

 

[BudBundy]

If you look at the 5 years between 2013-2014 and 2017-2018 of the 50 players chosen in the top 10 of the draft only 10 (or 20%) were not NHL regulars by there draft + 2 year. These players were:

2013 Nurse
2014 Dal Cole, H. Fleury, Virtanen
2015 Strome
2016 Juolevi, A. Nylander
2017 Makar, Glass, Tippett

Makar would have played last year if he wanted to. Glass was probably a contract decision more than a hockey decision.

Bouchard may or may not be ready but it is hardly rushing him if he looks like he belongs. He's physically mature and he has a skill set that the team could really use. If he comes in and wins a spot that would be great. Given the potential competition from the likes of Jones. Persson, Lagesson and Bear if he makes the team it will be because he earned it.

Why risk harming him in the long run?? What is the benefit to the team in the long run?? This coming season is where we burn through more of the crappy contracts and break in some rookies /Euro flyers. I guess if Bouchard is dominating offensively and playing airtight defence in the AHL for half a season, then sure. The boost he’ll give the team is worth “zero” risk.

 

[Fourier]

Why risk harming him in the long run?? What is the benefit to the team in the long run?? This coming season is where we burn through more of the crappy contracts and break in some rookies /Euro flyers. I guess if Bouchard is dominating offensively and playing airtight defence in the AHL for half a season, then sure. The boost he’ll give the team is worth “zero” risk.

Personally, I don't see evidence that playing at an appropriate level harms a player just because they are inexperienced. I think it depends on the individual. Some players will learn more quickly at a higher level and perhaps shed bad habits. Most of the players at the top of the draft order have played above their pay grade most of their lives. They are conditioned to that aspect of development. This is true in many aspects of life. The truly exceptional people rise to the challenge they have in front of them. Holding them back when they are ready is not always best. That said the vast majority of players drafted by NHL teams are not ready so they need time at lower levels to learn the game. But the AHL is not the NHL. There are things that you can only learn at the highest level. And in particular, there are things that you can get away with in juniors and in the AHL that won't work in the NHL.

There are of course exceptions even amongst the elite. But I have never really bought into the argument that players should not play at the highest level they are ready for. Now if the team is deep enough to let them stew a while longer so be it. But that is not the case with the vast majority of teams with top 10 picks.

For the record, I am fully aware that my position is perhaps in the minority here. I am aslo not advocating for Bouchard to make the team unless he really deserves it. To be honest I'd like to see the team give several of the kids some playing time to find out what they have. And if it is close I'd go with one of the older kids whose waiver exemption is about to expire.

 

[Soundwave]

1/2 a year in the AHL, 1/2 in the NHL if he shows he can hang I think would be possible.

 

[McJadeddog]

1/2 a year in the AHL, 1/2 in the NHL if he shows he can hang I think would be possible.

Yeah, you have to figure this is the most likely scenario. I expect he'll start in the AHL, and based on the play of the 6th dman (Jones, or whomever), injuries, and Bouchard's own play in the AHL, he will get a good look in the NHL at some point.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

For me, unless he comes in and gives you absolutely no option but to keep him up then Bouchard starts in the AHL. We know that at some point it's likely Bouchard becomes a top 4 defender but we have to suss out our logjam on defense, figure out who's staying and who's going to address needs in other areas. In my mind two of Jones, Lagesson, Bear, Persson should be moved, possibly at the deadline or next off season, to help with depth scoring.

Hopefully this group can push eachother and fuelled by guys like Bouchard, Broberg and Samourukov nipping at their heels, can play well and raise their profile and value.

 

[snipes]

For me, unless he comes in and gives you absolutely no option but to keep him up then Bouchard starts in the AHL. We know that at some point it's likely Bouchard becomes a top 4 defender but we have to suss out our logjam on defense, figure out who's staying and who's going to address needs in other areas. In my mind two of Jones, Lagesson, Bear, Persson should be moved, possibly at the deadline or next off season, to help with depth scoring.

Hopefully this group can push eachother and fuelled by guys like Bouchard, Broberg and Samourukov nipping at their heels, can play well and raise their profile and value.

Agree with your entire post.

 

[duul]

Evan Bouchard has been working with the PEP program that players like McDavid, Hall, Tavares, and Hughes among others use. Nice to see him really working hard on his skating.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Evan Bouchard has been working with the PEP program that players like McDavid, Hall, Tavares, and Hughes among others use. Nice to see him really working hard on his skating.

Nice to know the kid cares unlike some schmucks like Puliujarvi. Bouchard will be a sure fire NHLer. I seen the kid play every AHL playoff game last season and he was a ppg. That wasn’t by luck. His skill level, hockey sense and instincts are great. None of our Dmen have it, aside from maybe Broberg

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Why risk harming him in the long run?? What is the benefit to the team in the long run?? This coming season is where we burn through more of the crappy contracts and break in some rookies /Euro flyers. I guess if Bouchard is dominating offensively and playing airtight defence in the AHL for half a season, then sure. The boost he’ll give the team is worth “zero” risk.

There’s more than one way to develop a player.

Being sheltered in the NHL can be just as good as the AHL

 

[BudBundy]

There’s more than one way to develop a player.

Being sheltered in the NHL can be just as good as the AHL

Much more difficult to shelter a D than a forward. Just sayin.

 

[LTIR]

If Bouch plays more than 20 NHL games this year, it’s a sure sign that things went badly off the rails.

So at NHL game 20 he is sitting at 5G-10A and is a plus player , we should send him down?

 

[CanmoreMike]

If Bouch plays more than 20 NHL games this year, it’s a sure sign that things went badly off the rails.

My understanding is that on a Ken Holland team a rookie needs to beat out a vet cleanly to make the team - it's not like in the past where Bouchard would already be pencilled in as our #1 d-man.

If he wins a spot cleanly and holds it I have no problem. If it is a three horse race to the finish line and ends in a photo finish the rookies like him should be the ones departing for the AHL.

If he wins by default and it is clear he doesn't appear ready but makes the team anyway because everyone else sucks - then yes, something went horribly wrong.

 

[BudBundy]

So at NHL game 20 he is sitting at 5G-10A and is a plus player , we should send him down?

As improbable as that scenario is.....what Im saying is he probably shouldn’t start in the NHL regardless how he looks in camp. Look, I’m not completely irrational here: if he comes into camp and looks like a bizarre hybrid of Bobby Orr and the Incredible Hulk then sure I’ll let him play in the NHL. Even if he looks like an outstanding young hockey player in camp, I’d still send him to the NHL for at least half an AHL campaign to be damned sure he is ready. I’ll take a good 12 years from him rather than limit him early and forever so that I can squeeze in 13 years.

 

[Mr Positive]

As improbable as that scenario is.....what Im saying is he probably shouldn’t start in the NHL regardless how he looks in camp. Look, I’m not completely irrational here: if he comes into camp and looks like a bizarre hybrid of Bobby Orr and the Incredible Hulk then sure I’ll let him play in the NHL. Even if he looks like an outstanding young hockey player in camp, I’d still send him to the NHL for at least half an AHL campaign to be damned sure he is ready. I’ll take a good 12 years from him rather than limit him early and forever so that I can squeeze in 13 years.

Imo Drai blew the lid off that development model. Struggling for 40 games or whatever in the NHL can be a good thing if it informs the player's development.

Also imo contract wise, it is better to burn an ELC year so you can negotiate the 2nd contract long term for less AAV. An extra year of dirt cheap contract isn't worth the extra AAV it leads to down the road. What if we had to wait a year to extend Drai? Not good.

 

[yukoner88]

Imo Drai blew the lid off that development model. Struggling for 40 games or whatever in the NHL can be a good thing if it informs the player's development.

Also imo contract wise, it is better to burn an ELC year so you can negotiate the 2nd contract long term for less AAV. An extra year of dirt cheap contract isn't worth the extra AAV it leads to down the road. What if we had to wait a year to extend Drai? Not good.

And chia would still be the one negotiating that contract too

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I find it unbelievable why Holland didn't trade one of these guys for a similar forward prospect...

Something like Ethan Bear for Alex Barre Boulet.

I think he wants to pick the best one(s), then we may see a trade.

 

[Aerchon]

I personally believe Bouchard would have been fine to great if he played in the nhl last year.

If the reports are true that he has really pushed himself this summer it's going to be tough to deny him a roster spot.

His IQ, vision, passing, offensive instincts are all already nhl caliber. Plus he has nhl size, strength, and stamina.

It's just a matter if he can put it altogether.

I'm just hoping as great as I expect him to be that Persson and Bear just are even better and he gets a year in the AHL where he flat out dominates there.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I personally believe Bouchard would have been fine to great if he played in the nhl last year.

If the reports are true that he has really pushed himself this summer it's going to be tough to deny him a roster spot.

His IQ, vision, passing, offensive instincts are all already nhl caliber. Plus he has nhl size, strength, and stamina.

It's just a matter if he can put it altogether.

I'm just hoping as great as I expect him to be that Persson and Bear just are even better and he gets a year in the AHL where he flat out dominates there.

The only things that are holding him back are in the defensive zone. That's something that doesn't sort itself out in the gym. I am as high on him as anyone but watching him in the AHL playoffs showed that he needs more work. Better to have him put the work in in Bako under Manson than to be the next Schultz defensively.

 

[Aerchon]

The only things that are holding him back are in the defensive zone. That's something that doesn't sort itself out in the gym. I am as high on him as anyone but watching him in the AHL playoffs showed that he needs more work. Better to have him put the work in in Bako under Manson than to be the next Schultz defensively.

Nice that you watched him in the ahl last year. His usage suggests he struggled defensively.

While he obviously was not good from what I saw at the nhl level he was not bad defensively either. I thought at 19 Bouchard looked slightly better than Schultz did at 22.

I also heard that Bouchard improved significantly defensively in his OHL season.

I think he has a high iq that "could" help him "eventually" become good in his own zone as well as potent offensively.

 

[snipes]

Nice that you watched him in the ahl last year. His usage suggests he struggled defensively.

While he obviously was not good from what I saw at the nhl level he was not bad defensively either. I thought at 19 Bouchard looked slightly better than Schultz did at 22.

I also heard that Bouchard improved significantly defensively in his OHL season.

I think he has a high iq that "could" help him "eventually" become good in his own zone as well as potent offensively.

He has the size and physical strength to be decent to good defensively as well.

I think it’ll come down to coaching and will.

I’m optimistic he’ll take big steps defensively in the coming years. We got a special player here with Bouchard.

 

[Smartguy]

For me, unless he comes in and gives you absolutely no option but to keep him up then Bouchard starts in the AHL. We know that at some point it's likely Bouchard becomes a top 4 defender but we have to suss out our logjam on defense, figure out who's staying and who's going to address needs in other areas. In my mind two of Jones, Lagesson, Bear, Persson should be moved, possibly at the deadline or next off season, to help with depth scoring.

Hopefully this group can push eachother and fuelled by guys like Bouchard, Broberg and Samourukov nipping at their heels, can play well and raise their profile and value.

I’m pretty sure Holland has been quoted this offseason saying that Bouchard will have to steal someone’s job to stick. Which is the way it should be. No more gifting NHL minutes trying to develop on the fly.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

You can talk all you want about how he looked last year and how he's trained this summer but it will come down to how he fares in camp compared to the other defensemen and whether it would be better for his development to go down to the AHL and work on his defence. The good thing is if he's not at the level he needs to be at he can go down to Bakersfield and he'll get lots of minutes there.

While I would be a little surprised if he doesnt make the team out of camp I'm not going to be disappointed if he doesn't. He should be in a good spot to develop whether he's in the NHL or AHL.

I'll be curious to see if Holland brings in a defenseman on a PTO or through a trade for Pulju and whether he and Tippett are comfortable giving two spots to the young guys. It should be an exciting camp this fall on the D side.