Player Discussion Evan Bouchard: Scoring like mad

[SK13]

Nuge actually had 32 points in his first 29 NHL games, and it looked like he was a bona-fide 1st line All Star type. Then, reality set in...

Hall had a much slower start with only 1 point in his first 7 games, and 16 in his first 30.

They were both physically capable of NHL play at 18-19, but I tend to agree with @HockeyGuy1964 that there was equally no need to put either in the NHL then. Okay, they ended up with respectable numbers on terrible teams that missed the playoffs, but their confidence and leadership would have been more developed with another year in training, I think.

In the history of the NHL, there have been about 12 players who really needed to be in the NHL when they were 18. Gretzky and Crosby come to mind. Unless you're at that level, it's not necessary, the more so for defencemen (and even more so for goalies).

There's utterly and completely no benefit to playing first overall calibre prospects in junior leagues for "confidence" reasons. Those players are almost always beyond that competition at 17 years old, are either impact players or borderline impact players at 18 in the NHL, and almost always turn out to be all-star level players in the NHL. I don't think there is a single franchise that would have sent Taylor Hall back.

The gap we almost always see between the top of the draft and the next tier is the gap between an NHL player and someone who soon be one.

 

[The Panther]

There's utterly and completely no benefit to playing first overall calibre prospects in junior leagues for "confidence" reasons. Those players are almost always beyond that competition at 17 years old, are either impact players or borderline impact players at 18 in the NHL, and almost always turn out to be all-star level players in the NHL. I don't think there is a single franchise that would have sent Taylor Hall back.

The gap we almost always see between the top of the draft and the next tier is the gap between an NHL player and someone who soon be one.

I don't know about that. I would imagine the jump from local hometown teams to the WHL or the QMJHL or the OHL is a really big jump for some 16/17-year-olds. Then, to make another even bigger jump, just one year later, to the NHL, is a dizzying curve for a lot of teens. Why not give anyone that year or two extra to first adapt to the minor-pro before putting them under intense pressure of rabid fanbases and international media when they're still not old enough to drink in the USA and some Cdn. provinces?

It worked well for people like Joe Sakic, who told the Nordiques he'd rather stay in the WHL one more year. Sakic was just old enough to be drafted in '87, and Mario Lemieux was just young enough to not get drafted in '83, which allowed him the '83-'84 season in the Q to utterly dominate, break Guy Lafleur's scoring records, physically mature, and be ready for NHL action.

More recently, Mitch Marner of the Leafs was drafted 4th overall but didn't play at all in 2015-16, staying instead with the London Knights where he scored two points per game and played on the All Star team. Sure, maybe he could have played in the NHL, got 35-40 points, been -15, and missed the playoffs, but would that have helped him now? I doubt it. How about Mathew Barzal? Didn't play at all in 2015-16, and played only two games in 2016-17. The third year after his draft he became an NHL regular, and won the Calder. I'm not sure playing at 18 helped even Nathan MacKinnon, who won the Calder (in a weak rookie year), but then followed that with three consecutive middling seasons where he didn't look like anything special. I'm not sure Steven Stamkos got anything great out of his rookie season, either.

But it's always going to depend on the individual. Some players mature (physically, mentally) faster than others and can do it. But just because you're 1st overall doesn't mean you are maturing faster than other players. And the average 18-year-old guy is incredibly immature.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

I'm not gonna argue with you guys but if you think a scrawny, 18 year old, 160(this is being generous) pound, skill player should jump right into the NHL & not just as a bit player on, not just a terrible team but a soft team that had absolutely no physical response or lineup protection & was manhandled nightly, then will just agree to disagree. This is never a good idea IMO.

Like I said, Hall was debatable. You could make the case that he was physically ready, & he was, & that the team really wasn't as bad as they showed to finish last & blame it on all the injuries, which I did, so I have no real problem with Hall in the NHL his draft year. By the time RNH was drafted it was quite obvious we were ****ing terrible & nothing was about to change overnight in regards to be physically dominated on most nights so why put RNH in the lineup & subject him to abuse he wasn't physically up for at that point in time?

 

[joestevens29]

I wonder if we draft his teammate Connor McMichael

 

[MessierII]

I'm not gonna argue with you guys but if you think a scrawny, 18 year old, 160(this is being generous) pound, skill player should jump right into the NHL & not just as a bit player on, not just a terrible team but a soft team that had absolutely no physical response or lineup protection & was manhandled nightly, then will just agree to disagree. This is never a good idea IMO.

He had 9 points in his first 9 game trial. How do you justify sending him down? Nuge was the best 18 year old Oiler I’ve seen until Mcdavid pre injury. He was dominating the league.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Burns shouldn't be used as an example of a good defensive defenseman. He's trash in his own end.

What lol

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

He had 9 points in his first 9 game trial. How do you justify sending him down? Nuge was the best 18 year old Oiler I’ve seen until Mcdavid pre injury. He was dominating the league.

Obviously you can't read.
I said I wasn't going to argue with you & wrote my justification for my opinion. I don't care if you agree but I'm guessing in your world forcing a scrawny, 18 year old, 160 lb'er into top line minutes on a ****ty team that was physically manhandled on a nightly basis had absolutely nothing to do with a shoulder injury that affected him well into the next hockey season.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Obviously you can't read.
I said I wasn't going to argue with you & wrote my justification for my opinion. I don't care if you agree but I'm guessing in your world forcing a scrawny, 18 year old, 160 lb'er into top line minutes on a ****ty team that was physically manhandled on a nightly basis had absolutely nothing to do with a shoulder injury that affected him well into the next hockey season.

Kane seemed to have done just fine.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Kane seemed to have done just fine.

Wasn't aware that the Blackhawks were a soft team that was physically dominated on a nightly basis.

 

[yababy]

continue

he's behind his draft year stats.
"Scoring like mad" is an overstatement

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Kane seemed to have done just fine.

& just FTR, if I was a Chicago Blackhawk fan, which I'm not, I would have been worried about him too just like I worried for Sam Gagner for the same reasons.

 

[thadd]

I wonder if we draft his teammate Connor McMichael

I'd honestly be very wary of signing him. I haven't had the smallest look at him, but playing with not only Bouchard but also Boqvist as well he's got a lot of offensive support from the back end. Their 3rd line center is ranked 193 at this draft and he's even got 50 points.

Their top 3 centers and top 3 d-men are putting up tons of points.

Despite all the points he puts up, I'm not even 10% convinced that Bouchard plays in and Oilers uniform next season. Jones is better right now and we might even find an excuse to hold him back for 1 more year.

From what little I've seen of Bouchard I think he needs to work on his acceleration. He's not too old to figure it out. It's easier timing your sprints in the minors. In the NHL you don't have as much time and space to find a long strip of ice to accelerate and still be involved in the play.

 

[BudBundy]

If Bouchard is not given at least one season in the AHL, I’ll consider it yet another organizational failure.

 

[joestevens29]

I'd honestly be very wary of signing him. I haven't had the smallest look at him, but playing with not only Bouchard but also Boqvist as well he's got a lot of offensive support from the back end. Their 3rd line center is ranked 193 at this draft and he's even got 50 points.

Their top 3 centers and top 3 d-men are putting up tons of points.

Despite all the points he puts up, I'm not even 10% convinced that Bouchard plays in and Oilers uniform next season. Jones is better right now and we might even find an excuse to hold him back for 1 more year.

From what little I've seen of Bouchard I think he needs to work on his acceleration. He's not too old to figure it out. It's easier timing your sprints in the minors. In the NHL you don't have as much time and space to find a long strip of ice to accelerate and still be involved in the play.

Was more for the name. Would like to see Jack Michaels and Kevin Quinn work with two Connor's with Mc's to start the last name

 

[thadd]

If Bouchard is not given at least one season in the AHL, I’ll consider it yet another organizational failure.

He's clearly a very high IQ player, but he still needs to learn how to better make use of his body in a number of situations, not his mind. He should focus on development of his lower body and acceleration while he's still young to more easily program his body like that.

If he picks up on this quickly before he's AHL eligible, it might actually be impossible to keep him from going to the NHL. Pretty sure he's gotta do 1 more year in the CHL before he's AHL eligible and if that's the case you never know. He might be headed to the NHL after that. Too soon to tell.

If Ethan Bear stays healthy and keeps on lighting up the AHL it will certainly make it a lot harder for Bouchard to skip work on the farm team.

 

[BudBundy]

He's clearly a very high IQ player, but he still needs to learn how to better make use of his body in a number of situations, not his mind. He should focus on development of his lower body and acceleration while he's still young to more easily program his body like that.

If he picks up on this quickly before he's AHL eligible, it might actually be impossible to keep him from going to the NHL. Pretty sure he's gotta do 1 more year in the CHL before he's AHL eligible and if that's the case you never know. He might be headed to the NHL after that. Too soon to tell.

If Ethan Bear stays healthy and keeps on lighting up the AHL it will certainly make it a lot harder for Bouchard to skip work on the farm team.

I think you hit every nail on the head with your comments except I am almost positive he is AHL eligible because he’s already wrapping up his 4th year of junior.

 

[Panda Bear]

Since this is Bouchard's fourth OHL season, he is eligible for the AHL next year.

@thadd

 

[OilerTitanFan]

If Bouchard is not given at least one season in the AHL, I’ll consider it yet another organizational failure.

And what makes you think he can't be like Samuel Girard and step right in?

 

[elmeroil]

100% he needs to play a year in Bakersfield. They have a good thing going there, keep it going.

 

[thadd]

I think you hit every nail on the head with your comments except I am almost positive he is AHL eligible because he’s already wrapping up his 4th year of junior.

Well if we can put him in the AHL next year I will be jumping for joy and I will fully expect to see him spend the year in the AHL.

 

[thadd]

And what makes you think he can't be like Samuel Girard and step right in?

Dude needs to work on his skating.
What makes you think a below average skater can step right in without destroying his development curve?

 

[BudBundy]

And what makes you think he can't be like Samuel Girard and step right in?

I think he probably can step right in. Just like sam Gagner, RNH, MPS, Lander, J Schultz, and Jesse Puljujarvi could step right in. Just because he can probably come in and tread water doesnt mean it’s in anybody’s best interests. If you are looking for something more specific, his first step looks weak to me. I think he needs more leg strength or he will struggle against bigger competition. If he dominates 50 games in the AHL next year and he’s got people strong enough to hold down the first and second RH side pairings so he isnt thrown to the wolves like poor Schultz was, I would reluctantly give him a chance in the NHL. IMO, next year is where we sort out the Sekera/Russell/Manning mess and see what we’ve got in Ethan Bear. 2020 is Bouchards year if all goes well.

 

[780il]

I think he probably can step right in. Just like sam Gagner, RNH, MPS, Lander, J Schultz, and Jesse Puljujarvi could step right in. Just because he can probably come in and tread water doesnt mean it’s in anybody’s best interests. If you are looking for something more specific, his first step looks weak to me. I think he needs more leg strength or he will struggle against bigger competition. If he dominates 50 games in the AHL next year and he’s got people strong enough to hold down the first and second RH side pairings so he isnt thrown to the wolves like poor Schultz was, I would reluctantly give him a chance in the NHL. IMO, next year is where we sort out the Sekera/Russell/Manning mess and see what we’ve got in Ethan Bear. 2020 is Bouchards year if all goes well.

Agree all the way but I think Russel is shipped off this summer and Jones gets the full time job as the 3ld. Lagesson and Bear can fight it out for the right side spot.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Agree all the way but I think Russel is shipped off this summer and Jones gets the full time job as the 3ld. Lagesson and Bear can fight it out for the right side spot.

Guaranteeing that the Oilers will miss the playoffs next year.

 

[LTIR]

I wonder if we draft his teammate Connor McMichael

Maybe if we make the playoffs and are picking in the 20s