Management Eugene Melnyk -Lawsuits, rants, and more...

[The Lewler]

I’ll how you Threatening to move the franchise is his biggest mistake business wise. Alfie would be #2. Leeder also a big mistake.

I know what you are saying, I'm saying in a purely corporate business context. Not in a "the business" context.

Like in his strategic front office plan, severing his most trusted and respected link to the Ottawa establishment and business community. Not very strategic.

 

[JD1]

Ya, I respectfully, completely disagree with you. He dug his grave far too deep in this city, people won't forget what he has done to this once proud franchise.

On this we agree

I don't think there is a real opportunity for revenue to recover under Melnyk

 

[JD1]

I don't see the issue.

We complain and we complain that our position is that this is literally the one person standing in the way of success for the Ottawa Senators. At least thats how I see it. Melnyk is THE problem with the Senators and there is no fixing it.

If someone gets hired and sees that and has the balls to tell him directly, in fiery fashion, that he is THE problem and needs to go away for things to ever change, I will put that person on a pedestal and give him his props. Especially with Melnyk getting dragged by the media for it. Jim Little gets more respect from me for those arguments than Melnyk does for his entire tenure.

Its not like it sounds like he treats a lot of people with much respect, so I don't feel bad about the way he gets treated either. Looks good on him, he's earned it.

If you see a possible future with this guy still owning it, then I see why you would want things to quiet down and just go on. I still ultimately see the only way forward for this team is with him leaving. If he stays, the fanchise is doomed regardless imo.

This is a good reason for a Melnyk rant thread to exist. We can stay out of peoples way in the other threads and come in here with the ranting.

I don't think you understood my post, probably my fault for not being clear

I think we were lucky to get someone with Little like credentials. Unlucky that it was actually Little. Then again maybe not unlucky. Little seemed almost to good to be true. Turned out he was too good to be true. What we need are Little like credentials without Little baggage, which may be beyond our reach

I don't see a future with Melnyk owning the franchise in this market

 

[JD1]

I think it's fairly safe to say that he is not well heeled enough to run and finance a professional sports team in the "big 4" sports leagues.

I agree with this, specifically the financing piece

I think the current nhl revenue model will require annual cash injections which are problematic for him

I think the new US TV deal might be enough to balance it out and might pop franchise values enough for Eugene to pack it in

 

[Dingle]

Occam's Razor. His behaviour with the team points towards him having financial issues, as do the lawsuits involving relatively small sums of money. Of course it's silly to say the man is broke, but we're talking about relativity here. I think it's fairly safe to say that he is not well heeled enough to run and finance a professional sports team in the "big 4" sports leagues.

Jhutter..I am trying to live by my own words and listen and not shout at others. thanks for Occam's razor. I genuinely did not know it. Interesting read on it.I have no idea of his finances..What you write is an eye opener, as have been other posts.

so..at this moment, my attitude is, I will wait until December 2021. that is judgment day.

Now to be partly serious..why not sell then? ...In 3 months on here, I have yet to see someone articulate a complete point on why he is sticking around. All logic points to sell and get out..

 

[DaveMatthew]

Jhutter..I am trying to live by my own words and listen and not shout at others. thanks for Occam's razor. I genuinely did not know it. Interesting read on it.I have no idea of his finances..What you write is an eye opener, as have been other posts.

so..at this moment, my attitude is, I will wait until December 2021. that is judgment day.

Now to be partly serious..why not sell then? ...In 3 months on here, I have yet to see someone articulate a complete point on why he is sticking around. All logic points to sell and get out..

Despite operating losses, it's reasonable to believe that the value of the franchise continues to rise.

 

[umma gumma]

Jhutter..I am trying to live by my own words and listen and not shout at others. thanks for Occam's razor. I genuinely did not know it. Interesting read on it.I have no idea of his finances..What you write is an eye opener, as have been other posts.

so..at this moment, my attitude is, I will wait until December 2021. that is judgment day.

Now to be partly serious..why not sell then? ...In 3 months on here, I have yet to see someone articulate a complete point on why he is sticking around. All logic points to sell and get out..

Well, perhaps because logic and Melnyk are like oil and water.

I'm guessing he's waiting for Seattle's heafty expansion fee.

 

[branch]

Yeah, let’s start this argument up again too.

EM knew the deal was shit. No support from city and less chance of income from additional buildings. As proven by PwC in their report.

PwC reckoned that even under its most optimistic economic scenario, there would be room for both 900 Albert and LeBreton only during the first two years of the LeBreton project. Between 2020 and 2024, PwC expected 900 Albert and LeBreton would each make available about 200 units annually for a total of 400 — against estimated demand of only 170.

Under PwC’s pessimistic economic scenario, not only would there be no takers for 900 Albert or LeBreton, there would be a surplus of 480 residential units annually for all the other downtown projects between 2020 and 2024.

Business decision. Get over it.

Anything else is pure speculation or fake news

I don't think writing business decision in bold and telling people to get over it is a way to definitively claim victory in this argument. I don't think that is possible at all for this subject. There's way too many variables involved, and reports made to the contrary to just come out and say something like that and handwave everything else away.

 

[jhutter]

Jhutter..I am trying to live by my own words and listen and not shout at others. thanks for Occam's razor. I genuinely did not know it. Interesting read on it.I have no idea of his finances..What you write is an eye opener, as have been other posts.

so..at this moment, my attitude is, I will wait until December 2021. that is judgment day.

Now to be partly serious..why not sell then? ...In 3 months on here, I have yet to see someone articulate a complete point on why he is sticking around. All logic points to sell and get out..

He has burned out all of my second chances and benefits of the doubt, but I do understand the notion of waiting until 2021 to hold him to that ridiculous "FYOUS" statement. Can't fault you for that.

In terms of not selling, I have my theories. Of course I know absolutely nothing of the man personally, but in my observations, I think he's an extremely eccentric, egocentric and stubborn man, as a fair number of ultra wealthy individuals are. Waiting for the payout from the Seattle expansion would add some justification for holding out on selling, but the damage he's doing to the team in the meantime is likely to be negatively affecting any gains he would be making in that scenario. In addition, he's likely adding more and more debt to the team, which obviously affects what he would profit off of a sale.

To me, a lot of it boils down to me thinking that he's simply a very strange, eccentric man, not dissimilar to former owners such as Wirtz and Ballard. A not so crazy theory of mine is that the overdue logo change is a product of his ego and stubbornness. The current logo and branding was something that can symbolize his ownership of the team, and going back to the 2d logo, despite it's overwhelming popularity and therefore potential for revenue, could symbolize the time prior to his ownership. If he is in fact an egotistical eccentric, it isn't hard to see why it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Dingle]

I agree with this, specifically the financing piece

I think the current NHL revenue model will require annual cash injections which are problematic for him

I think the new US TV deal might be enough to balance it out and might pop franchise values enough for Eugene to pack it in

Despite operating losses, it's reasonable to believe that the value of the franchise continues to rise.

Well, perhaps because logic and Melnyk are like oil and water.

I'm guessing he's waiting for Seattle's hefty expansion fee.

1) all your posts point to a somewhat similar point of view. He will sell (or strongly might) and will do so in 1-3 years (Seattle expansion, new US deal). In which case 1-3 years max is all we have to wait. A Christmas 2021 gift to ourselves.

2) will not sell...reasons vary from: XXXXXXXXXXXX...well let me save myself trouble, by not writing things. In which case, we are screwed. A lump of coal for Christmas 2021..

I am hoping for 1)

 

[TheNewEra]

I think there are two reasons he hasn't sold

1 the expansion fee
2 this is just something that has developed over the year but getting laf and his marketability probably adds 10 million at least to the Sens valuation

 

[jhutter]

I think there are two reasons he hasn't sold

1 the expansion fee
2 this is just something that has developed over the year but getting laf and his marketability probably adds 10 million at least to the Sens valuation

I agree that getting Lafreniere would increase the marketability and potential revenue for the team, but what has the cost been at this point? It seems akin to putting 21in chrome rims on a 2003 S-Type.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I don't think you understood my post, probably my fault for not being clear

I think we were lucky to get someone with Little like credentials. Unlucky that it was actually Little. Then again maybe not unlucky. Little seemed almost to good to be true. Turned out he was too good to be true. What we need are Little like credentials without Little baggage, which may be beyond our reach

I don't see a future with Melnyk owning the franchise in this market

Which baggage are you referring to with Little?

We just needed someone willing to come in and be honest. That happened and he got fired for telling it like it is.

I don't think there's much point in hiring anyone with credentials if all you want is a yes man willing to lick your boots.

Seems like this closes the book on any hope Melnyk was figuring it out and that the only hope he had left was to completely disappear.

He seems himself as an underdog for some reason, but really he's just a man with an asshole personality who burned his bridges with the City of Ottawa, the fans, the media, and more importantly, the business community.

 

[jhutter]

Which baggage are you referring to with Little?

We just needed someone willing to come in and be honest. That happened and he got fired for telling it like it is.

I don't think there's much point in hiring anyone with credentials if all you want is a yes man willing to lick your boots.

Seems like this closes the book on any hope Melnyk was figuring it out and that the only hope he had left was to completely disappear.

He seems himself as an underdog for some reason, but really he's just a man with an asshole who burned his bridges with the City of Ottawa, the fans, the media, and more importantly, the business community.

He didn't seem to have too much baggage for the multi billion dollar companies he worked for.

 

[TheNewEra]

I agree that getting Lafreniere would increase the marketability and potential revenue for the team, but what has the cost been at this point? It seems akin to putting 21in chrome rims on a 2003 S-Type.

I agree on the premises of your point but the teams valuation has independently increased. So cost benefit wise he is coming ahead right now even if he is barely scrapping by

 

[coladin]

If EM is a billionaire then I grossed 750k last year and drive an air cooled 1972 911S Targa with a vintage MacIntosh PC installed in the dash to automate air/fuel mix

Hi branch! Where you been!

 

[jhutter]

I agree on the premises of your point but the teams valuation has independently increased. So cost benefit wise he is coming ahead right now even if he is barely scrapping by

But has it increased relative to the debt he's incurring?

 

[TheNewEra]

But has it increased relative to the debt he's incurring?

That's the million dollar question. From the reports to the public I would say no. But even Eugene can't be that stupid

 

[Larionov]

I think there are two reasons he hasn't sold

1 the expansion fee
2 this is just something that has developed over the year but getting laf and his marketability probably adds 10 million at least to the Sens valuation

I think it is just stubborn pride, and the fact that he really digs being an owner. Keep in mind that owning a pro sports franchise is a pretty exclusive club and the ultimate "look at me" toy for rich people. That's why the franchise values continue to rise, and often seem to defy economics when you look at what kind of a profit (or lack thereof) that they turn.

Common sense says that he should cash out now - after all, the Seattle expansion fee can simply be built into the sale price in the same way that a new roof, new appliances, etc. all get bartered on the sale of a home. That's not a deal breaker. My take is that he will sell the day that his health becomes such that he can't keep tabs on the team on a daily basis. When that day comes no one knows for sure, but that's what it will take in my view...

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think it is just stubborn pride, and the fact that he really digs being an owner. Keep in mind that owning a pro sports franchise is a pretty exclusive club and the ultimate "look at me" toy for rich people. That's why the franchise values continue to rise, and often seem to defy economics when you look at what kind of a profit (or lack thereof) that they turn.

Common sense says that he should cash out now - after all, the Seattle expansion fee can simply be built into the sale price in the same way that a new roof, new appliances, etc. all get bartered on the sale of a home. That's not a deal breaker. My take is that he will sell the day that his health becomes such that he can't keep tabs on the team on a daily basis. When that day comes no one knows for sure, but that's what it will take in my view...

He more than loves being owner he wanted in on this game for a loooooong time.

"Melnyk is passionately committed to supporting the advancement of hockey at all levels of the game. Most recently, he was the owner of the Ontario Hockey League’s (OHL) Mississauga St. Michael’s Majors junior hockey team which he sold in May 2012. During his 11-year ownership tenure, the Majors qualified for the playoff s in 10 of 11 seasons and were finalists in both the Rogers OHL Championship Series and the Canadian Hockey League’s MasterCard Memorial Cup. Melnyk also served as chairman of the 2009 IIHF World Junior Hockey Championship in Ottawa. In April 2013, his organization worked closely with the Ontario Women’s Hockey Association in hosting the 2013 IIHF Women’s World Championship. "

He never won though...

 

[coladin]

I know we are rehashing things here, but I have done JVs. I am in one right now, actually. My main business is real estate, and the Lebreton style project is something that I heard a lot about, both in the new and behind the scenes. We can go back and forth on who is to blame, but I blame all three: Melnyk, Ruddy, and Watson.

Melnyk for bailing, and whether right for doing so or not, I think his intentions were not clear with the city or partners.

Ruddy for getting greedy, and being dishonest with his partner. This cannot be emphasized enough, as this is something that cannot be walked back from. Once trust is gone, and money is involved, that is just about it. Ruddy changing the scope of the Albert Street project and essentially hiding it from his partner would have been a deal breaker for me as well.

Watson, for fiddling while Rome burned. He was trying to win votes, instead of putting the city's interest first. But that is always the Jim Watson way.

In essence, all three were being self-serving in their own ways. Human nature, I guess, but Lebreton was supposed to be special, and Watson royally screwed this up, opening up the City wallets, our wallets, to ensure we have something special there. Now, it will be another property tax based concrete nothingness full of bland, unimaginative condos, serviced by trains that don't work. Ultimately, it is his city to run, and he was more than happy to let this fail if his nemesis looked bad

 

[JD1]

Which baggage are you referring to with Little?

We just needed someone willing to come in and be honest. That happened and he got fired for telling it like it is.

Do you believe that is true?

For sure we needed someone to tell it like it is, I completely agree and it certainly seems like Little did that.

I think the manner in which he conducted himself seems to have raised some eyebrows.

Or do you feel based on what you have read that there was not an issue with how he conducted himself?

 

[branch]

Hi branch! Where you been!

On vacation...missed the man @coladin the most

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

On vacation...missed the man @coladin the most

Welcome back Branch!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Do you believe that is true?

For sure we needed someone to tell it like it is, I completely agree and it certainly seems like Little did that.

I think the manner in which he conducted himself seems to have raised some eyebrows.

Or do you feel based on what you have read that there was not an issue with how he conducted himself?

Yes, I feel strongly that based on what I've heard, Little was conducting himself in a reasonable manner, at least based on what we know about dealing with Melnyk and what it's like working for him.

I'm confident that it was the other end of the call that would have driven Jim to the point he got to and would bet a lot of money that Eugene has treated countless people a lot worse than that sounded from Jim's end.

They brought Jim Little out of retirement and then neutered his plans. I don't blame him for being upset and communicating that in Melnyk fashion.

Melnyk will never get any benefit of the doubt anymore and that's just how it is. There's a reason he was roasted about it as essentially just more of the same from the owner of the Ottawa Senators.