Player Discussion Ethan Bear: It's a Bear Market

[GOilers88]

No, by my logic, based on what I understand from how drafts work, the later picks are largely made because particular scout voice strong feelings toward the various players selected. The GM is due some credit, but the GM usually isn't heavily knowledgeable of all like 300+ available prospects.

Edit: Holland is due credit for creating space on the blueline for a Bear or Jones to thrive.

If the GM is the one who puts and keeps his scouts in place, and those scouts identify good talent, then the GM absolutely deserves an equal amount of credit for providing a staff that is good at their job. Them personally following 300+ prospects is absolutely irrelevant to everything.

Let's contrast that to the OBC regime that was unable to identify, or hire any scouts that were able to identify real NHL talent on a year to year basis for like a decade. The GM deserves the blame in providing a shitty scouting staffmuch like he deserves credit for providing a good staff.

 

[Hairy Apparatus]

This may be premature but honestly I think Ethan Bear is already the Oilers 2nd best defenseman behind Klefbom and once he gets more NHL games under his belt I don't see why he can't surpass him as well. Bear has legit top pair potential and could even be a #1D, maybe not an elite one but still. His game is so well-rounded and he makes such great decisions, great passer, creative in the offensive zone. He can really do it all.

Get him signed long-term ASAP. I'm not opposed to a $5M x 8 years type deal. Without doing the math I think with cap inflation it's a very similar deal to what Klefbom got in 2015 after a similar amount of NHL games played and that's been a complete steal. There's nothing in Bear's game that I'm worried about that would make me hesitate signing him to a long-term deal. Just get it done.

He reminds me of letang

 

[OilerTitanFan]

I fixed it and both are now true.

Haha....go back to the hiring of chiarelli conference and you will know he was the backbone to all this drafting. He made it clear he wants to build from the draft and develop from within. He was the one with the shrewd hiring of Keith Gretzky and the rest of the scouting staff.

 

[OilerTitanFan]

Yeah, Rakell is not garbage. If you could actually get Rakell for a 1st + Samo package you'd be a GD fool not to make the deal.

What has he done lately to deserve a first plus samorukov? That would be as dumb as tossing a first straight up for josh anderson. There is no guarantees Rakell would fit in with this team. He might end up being a 3rd liner on the decline. I rather keep the first.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Huh?

He is the most effective defenceman we have by a country mile. Followed by Jones, then Bear, then Green, then Klefbom, then Larsson. Russell/Lags are tire fires.

I'm going to assume you mean Nurse, not Bear.

Also, that ordering is way off. Our defense from most effective to least effective would be Klefbom, Bear, Nurse, Larsson/Jones, Benning/Russell, Lagesson.

You're being way too hard on Klefbom here - he's easily our best defenseman. Bear is getting there, but not there yet. Jones is improving but he's not even close to being our second most effective defenseman.

Haven't seen enough of Green to get a read on him yet.

 

[Panda Bear]

When do we give credit to Scott Howson's prospect development?

 

[GOilers88]

What has he done lately to deserve a first plus samorukov? That would be as dumb as tossing a first straight up for josh anderson. There is no guarantees Rakell would fit in with this team. He might end up being a 3rd liner on the decline. I rather keep the first.

There's no guarantee any player fits a new team. Does that mean you should never make trades for new players at the cost of picks and prospects? Rakell is a legit top six player who is 26 and signed to a 3.7 million contract that runs through 2022.

There is quite literally nothing in the world the Edmonton Oilers need more than legit top six players who can make plays and finish. I've watched Rakell lots and while his career numbers don't jump down your throat it's very apparent he is a legit threat, especially coupled with two of the best players in the game.

In my opinion, I don't think many, if any GM's would pass up Rakell for a mid to low 1st + Samorukov.

 

[OilerTitanFan]

There's no guarantee any player fits a new team. Does that mean you should never make trades for new players at the cost of picks and prospects? Rakell is a legit top six player who is 26 and signed to a 3.7 million contract that runs through 2022.

There is quite literally nothing in the world the Edmonton Oilers need more than legit top six players who can make plays and finish. I've watched Rakell lots and while his career numbers don't jump down your throat it's very apparent he is a legit threat, especially coupled with two of the best players in the game.

In my opinion, I don't think many, if any GM's would pass up Rakell for a mid to low 1st + Samorukov.

I am not sure about that trade. I rather pass up on that. Rakell could be had for less in the off season. After all the recent trades plus having Yamamoto turning into a threat, I would be hesitant in unloading futures for Rakell. We are dealing in a position of strength now so there is no need to make any panic trade. We should be the ones fleecing other teams.

 

[space321]

Man people still won't give any credit to Klefbom huh...

Year in year out he's our best D. When he gets injured the team noticeably plays worse.

 

[Zaddy]

Man people still won't give any credit to Klefbom huh...

Year in year out he's our best D. When he gets injured the team noticeably plays worse.

Wasn't too long ago someone on here even called him overrated. It's absurd.

 

[ZenOil]

I think Bear is only second to Klefbomb. Plays and thinks the game at a better pace than any of the other oilers defensemen. Hope he is signed long term while he's cheap cheap very cheap.

 

[Tyrolean]

I think Bear is only second to Klefbomb. Plays and thinks the game at a better pace than any of the other oilers defensemen. Hope he is signed long term while he's cheap cheap very cheap.

Bear is the Oilers best d-man better than Klef.

 

[Mijatovic]

Ive only watched him a couple of games but I love his agility and desire to create offence.

 

[Heavy Dee]

When healthy I would pair :

Klefbom Bear - 1st pair
Nurse Green - 2nd pair
Jones Larsson/Benning - 3rd pair.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

When healthy I would pair :

Klefbom Bear - 1st pair
Nurse Green - 2nd pair
Jones Larsson/Benning - 3rd pair.

I think I would flip Green & Bear, because Green & Nurse's foot speed support their partners better, imo.

 

[Oil Dood]

Wasn't too long ago someone on here even called him overrated. It's absurd.

I still think he is overrated by the fan base here. We would struggle big if anyone of him, Bear or Nurse goes down, we just do not have enough top four talent to cover for that loss.

Is Klefbom a top four defender? Yep. Is he our best guy back there? Arguable but he is top three for sure and a very good minute muncher.

Saying he is overrated by a fan base is completly different then saying he is a bad player. Saying Nurse is better does not take away from Klefbom as a player either, yet as soon as one suggests it certain people jump down their throat.

Saying that a guy that is injured for extended periods every year since you drafted him does not make the guy a bad player either, all it is stating is that a player that gets hurt every year is injury prone, facts are right there, not a secret.

Fact is is that we need Klefbom, Nurse and Bear all here right now. Bouchard will be in that mix and as long as he can stay healthy our arguments will shift drastically to who is the 2nd best defender after Bouchard.

 

[Oil Dood]

When healthy I would pair :

Klefbom Bear - 1st pair
Nurse Green - 2nd pair
Jones Larsson/Benning - 3rd pair.

I don't mind that but why mess with a good thing with Bear/Klefbom?

Why not put Klefbom with Green?

 

[nabob]

When do we give credit to Scott Howson's prospect development?

blind squirrel found a nut or two.

 

[Heavy Dee]

I don't mind that but why mess with a good thing with Bear/Klefbom?

Why not put Klefbom with Green?

I guess it doesn't matter now, but Nurse is playing awful

 

[Oil Dood]

I guess it doesn't matter now, but Nurse is playing awful

No he really is not. Is he plyaing too much? Yes, but that does not mean he is playing terrible, or awful.

Like I said earlier, the hatred for Nurse is completely off base. We do not have the depth to sustain long stretches without him or Klefbom in the line up.
Bear has actually struggled a bit but again that can be expected with him being a rookie and playing more than he should.

People ragging on Nurse will turn on Bear, Jones or Bouchard in a few years though, give it time.

 

[ImmuneEH]

I could be wrong, but my guess is that people are turning on Nurse because we'd like to think that when Klefbomb goes down, Nurse can handle those minutes. He's barely getting a passing grade imo, (probably a failing grade from those overly critical of him). So combine that with his upcoming contract, and people are wondering, "Why would this guy be getting such a big pay day?"

I'd like to see if we can move on from him in a couple years, I'm just scared the whole "Nurse is part of the leadership core" will prevent Holland from doing anything.

 

[Oil Dood]

I could be wrong, but my guess is that people are turning on Nurse because we'd like to think that when Klefbomb goes down, Nurse can handle those minutes. He's barely getting a passing grade imo, (probably a failing grade from those overly critical of him). So combine that with his upcoming contract, and people are wondering, "Why would this guy be getting such a big pay day?"

I'd like to see if we can move on from him in a couple years, I'm just scared the whole "Nurse is part of the leadership core" will prevent Holland from doing anything.

Yeah might as well chase out another defensman again on this team.
Once he is gone who is next?
Hmmm, wanna join me on getting started on Bear early? I hate investing time and watching players grow just to Petry/Schultz them out in a few years.

 

[duul]

No he really is not. Is he plyaing too much? Yes, but that does not mean he is playing terrible, or awful.

Like I said earlier, the hatred for Nurse is completely off base. We do not have the depth to sustain long stretches without him or Klefbom in the line up.
Bear has actually struggled a bit but again that can be expected with him being a rookie and playing more than he should.

People ragging on Nurse will turn on Bear, Jones or Bouchard in a few years though, give it time.

I doubt it, considering Bear, Jones, and Bouchard all play a near polar-opposite style to Nurse. The former three all play the game in a cerebral manner; outlet passes, quick turns out of corners, evading forechecking and making a nice crisp pass to our forwards, etc.

Nurse isn't capable of any of that. He tries to outmuscle people or use his only strength (his skating) to try and evade pressure. It usually doesn't work. I don't think he realizes he isn't Chris Pronger. He isn't that tough, he can't pass or shoot the puck well at all, he never knows when to make the right play. He isn't punishing to play against. There's just...not much going on for Darnell Nurse. I think he would fit a role as a 3rd pairing guy quite nicely due to his skating ability, but he really needs to spend some time learning proper defensive positioning. Ideally, you don't want him playing for more than 16-18 minutes a game. With someone like Ethan Bear, you'd be happy with him playing 30 minutes a game if he was up to it.

Nurse had his opportunity and failed. He showed us all what he is, and that's fine. It's not a knock on him. Most defencemen in the league aren't capable of playing big minutes. He will do nicely on the 3rd pairing going into next season with Jones and Klefbom ahead of him. Maybe even by Klefbom's return we will see that.

 

[booyakasha]

No he really is not. Is he plyaing too much? Yes, but that does not mean he is playing terrible, or awful.

Like I said earlier, the hatred for Nurse is completely off base. We do not have the depth to sustain long stretches without him or Klefbom in the line up.
Bear has actually struggled a bit but again that can be expected with him being a rookie and playing more than he should.

People ragging on Nurse will turn on Bear, Jones or Bouchard in a few years though, give it time.

It will happen next year.

 

[Oil Dood]

I doubt it, considering Bear, Jones, and Bouchard all play a near polar-opposite style to Nurse. The former three all play the game in a cerebral manner; outlet passes, quick turns out of corners, evading forechecking and making a nice crisp pass to our forwards, etc.

Nurse isn't capable of any of that. He tries to outmuscle people or use his only strength (his skating) to try and evade pressure. It usually doesn't work. I don't think he realizes he isn't Chris Pronger. He isn't that tough, he can't pass or shoot the puck well at all, he never knows when to make the right play. He isn't punishing to play against. There's just...not much going on for Darnell Nurse. I think he would fit a role as a 3rd pairing guy quite nicely due to his skating ability, but he really needs to spend some time learning proper defensive positioning. Ideally, you don't want him playing for more than 16-18 minutes a game. With someone like Ethan Bear, you'd be happy with him playing 30 minutes a game if he was up to it.

Nurse had his opportunity and failed. He showed us all what he is, and that's fine. It's not a knock on him. Most defencemen in the league aren't capable of playing big minutes. He will do nicely on the 3rd pairing going into next season with Jones and Klefbom ahead of him. Maybe even by Klefbom's return we will see that.

Now Nurse is a 3rd pair?