Confirmed with Link: Erne and Vrana file for Arbitration

[TheOctopusKid]

My preferred scenario is that we keep the talent we have and build upon it. However the failure to find a stud center seriously hampers our chance at success. I think inevitably Yzerman will trade Hronek, Bert and Vrana. Maybe even Larkin because the window is further away than he hoped and without a stud center we're going nowhere.

I agree. I think Bertuzzi, Vrana are def. going to be shipped out. I'm not sure on Larkin or Hronek yet only because C's and D's are harder to find and typically age a bit better than rough and tumble or high octane scoring wingers. I would not be shocked by any of them moving only to your point, I think they are mostly out of their primes when we are competing seriously.

I do agree Leddy makes us less likely to be last but truthfully, I don't think we were going to finish in the Bottom 3 regardless. There are some true masters there. However I think Leddy does give us some semblance of a breakout pass, mentor, and another deadline trade asset to net us more draft capital. Our team is going to be pretty tankrific the last quarter of the season to finish bottom 5 or 6 after we move Bert, Vrana and Leddy l. Well still get our swing at a C.

Nice having a convo with you.

 

[ThankGord]

They don't have to get #1. However they're trying to get #8 or 10 and wasting assets to do it. What happens when the center you want goes 6th but Leddy helped you win 2 more games so you get another winger as consolation prize?

What happens when we finish last and pick 4th? What happens when we finish 6th worst and pick 2nd (NYR) or 12th worst and pick 3rd (CHI)? We can't predict where we will finish or where we will pick.

What we can do is bring in a veteran defenseman with the ability to move the puck that will put our young forwards in a better position to develop and succeed and will take pressure off of our young defensemen. Investing in and developing what we already have is important.

 

[The Zermanator]

Because I expect them to finish 6-8 from the bottom and pick just outside of the guys we need. That's why I think the Leddy trade was so dumb.

So your estimation of Yzerman's tenure more or less hinges on the Leddy acquisition? Doesn't seem to me like it'll move the needle that much either way. Just give Seider a competent partner to play with, and a good vet for what is an increasingly young D group.

My preferred scenario is that we keep the talent we have and build upon it. However the failure to find a stud center seriously hampers our chance at success. I think inevitably Yzerman will trade Hronek, Bert and Vrana. Maybe even Larkin because the window is further away than he hoped and without a stud center we're going nowhere.

You say that he 'failed' to get a stud centre. Which stud centre would you have drafted, signed, or traded for?

 

[Revenge of Gru]

So your estimation of Yzerman's tenure more or less hinges on the Leddy acquisition? Doesn't seem to me like it'll move the needle that much either way. Just give Seider a competent partner to play with, and a good vet for what is an increasingly young D group.



You say that he 'failed' to get a stud centre. Which stud centre would you have drafted, signed, or traded for?

I think largely Yzerman's tenure has been fine. That doesn't mean we have the pieces we need. That's why this offseason has been a head scratcher. Trade away 8 picks, take a huge risk on a goalie prospect and rent a vet D. I dunno. Not too exciting.

 

[jkutswings]

I think largely Yzerman's tenure has been fine. That doesn't mean we have the pieces we need. That's why this offseason has been a head scratcher. Trade away 8 picks, take a huge risk on a goalie prospect and rent a vet D. I dunno. Not too exciting.

Whether the moves pan out or not remains to be seen. But I don't see how the intentions were anything but crystal clear:

Focus on goaltending and defense. Punt improvement of the forwards to next summer.

 

[rhef3]

Leddy will most likely get shipped out as well, But i like the thought process of bringing him in, did he not say he wants to help teach the kids? and he will provide great shelter during our rookies growing pains, and I hope he plays well so we can get more value from him, This is a pretty important year for our team with the likelyhood of Vrana, Bertuzzi and possibly even Leddy being traded out to help our "tank" and get some great young assets in return.

2022 draft/offseason will be big for the wings
Staal, Leddy and Dekeyser's contract all expire at the end of this upcoming season

good thing we have all that depth on defense

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Whether the moves pan out or not remains to be seen. But I don't see how the intentions were anything but crystal clear:

Focus on goaltending and defense. Punt improvement of the forwards to next summer.

I agree about the intent. I just question the wisdom. Goalies are easy to come by. We just snatched up a pretty solid kid for a 3rd rd pick. Was Cossa really worth a 1st a 2nd and a 5th? Really? I question whether he's worth a 1st. Goalies are voodoo.
Why did he let Glendenning walk away for nothing? That seems like a no brainer.

 

[waltdetroit]

[QUOTE="And the allure of my existence is never having a grip on whether I am being facetious or not[/QUOTE]

 

[ThankGord]

Why did he let Glendenning walk away for nothing? That seems like a no brainer.

I'm not sure Glenny wanted to come back. I fully expected him back to be honest but he plays playoff-style hockey and likely wanted to join a contender. It opened up a spot for younger guys like Suter, Stephens, and potentially Veleno to show what they've got so I'm alright with it.

As for trading him last year at the deadline, I'm guessing either there wasn't a market or Yzerman didn't want to destabilize the team too much with all of the injuries we were dealing with.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Up in arms? Worried? I made one comment. One single sentence suggesting our offer bordered on insulting. The slew of semi-hostile responses strikes me as the up in arms crowd, but sure paint me as the hysterical one.
Reading the article Ogee posted, it seems like the Vrana camp might just be offended by our offer.

You want examples of a team/player relationship souring after arbitration? I'm sure I could find plenty, but I'm not about to waste my time on it.

unless Ogee posted another article, there is no indication of how they feel one way or another. “He wants Mantha’s contract”. Is that upset?

Far apart in talks is because 2.1m is a pretty big gap.

 

[jkutswings]

Was Cossa really worth a 1st a 2nd and a 5th? Really? I question whether he's worth a 1st. Goalies are voodoo.

Fair point. We'll see.

Goalies are easy to come by.

Why did he let Glendenning walk away for nothing? That seems like a no brainer.

If goalies are easy to come by, then 4th line centers with zero offense are raining from the sky.

 

[roman star]

I'm not sure Glenny wanted to come back. I fully expected him back to be honest but he plays playoff-style hockey and likely wanted to join a contender. It opened up a spot for younger guys like Suter, Stephens, and potentially Veleno to show what they've got so I'm alright with it.

As for trading him last year at the deadline, I'm guessing either there wasn't a market or Yzerman didn't want to destabilize the team too much with all of the injuries we were dealing with.

glendenning was quoted about leaving being a tough decission , as in he had an offer from yzerman . but oafs here to complain / troll

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Fair point. We'll see.


If goalies are easy to come by, then 4th line centers with zero offense are raining from the sky.

Glendenning is a very good 4th line center though. He was absolutely worth a pick. Probably a third maybe even a 2nd from a contender.

 

[Henkka]

Was quite funny to notice that Vrana's most common linemates at Detroit were, Filppula, Rasmussen, Cholowski and Hronek.

Still scored 8+3=11 points in 11 games.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

He scored more than Mantha in a tiny sample size. Their numbers overall are nearly identical. Mantha is likely still the superior player and Bert brings alot of different elements that Vrana doesn't.

Oh please stop i can´t breath lol.

 

[lilidk]

I'm not sure Glenny wanted to come back. I fully expected him back to be honest but he plays playoff-style hockey and likely wanted to join a contender. It opened up a spot for younger guys like Suter, Stephens, and potentially Veleno to show what they've got so I'm alright with it.

As for trading him last year at the deadline, I'm guessing either there wasn't a market or Yzerman didn't want to destabilize the team too much with all of the injuries we were dealing with.

My guess is Yzerman and Draper did not see much talent in last draft and they didn't want to have to much picks. Draper might get lucky here and there , but he is not a right person for the job.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Oh please stop i can´t breath lol.

There's a reason Vrana came with a 1st rd pick. People got wowed by the tiny sample size here. He's a decent player but those numbers are unsustainable for him.

 

[ThankGord]

There's a reason Vrana came with a 1st rd pick. People got wowed by the tiny sample size here. He's a decent player but those numbers are unsustainable for him.

He's over half a point per game in his career almost entirely at even strength playing about 14 minutes a game. If he continues to get first line minutes and power play time he'll produce.

Even strength goals per 60 minutes, Vrana is in elite company.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

There's a reason Vrana came with a 1st rd pick. People got wowed by the tiny sample size here. He's a decent player but those numbers are unsustainable for him.

You have literally no proof that’s the case

 

[SCD]

If Vrana goes to arbitration, it makes it much less likely he will remain with the team long term. The Athletic's recent prediction that Vrana will be here for the 2025-26 I find unlikely.

 

[Hen Kolland]

He's over half a point per game in his career almost entirely at even strength playing about 14 minutes a game. If he continues to get first line minutes and power play time he'll produce.

Even strength goals per 60 minutes, Vrana is in elite company.

Well we have reached the first "elite goals per 60 in limited ice time will undoubtedly translate seamlessly with more time despite better competition" argument, as predicted.

Jakub, Andreas, what do you have to say for yourselves...

Vrana's done everything the exact same way that Athanasiou has. An electric set of skills that can be used to iso-produce against teams 3rd best defensive units. You think Vrana routinely will be able to excel at a high level when he doesn't have Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Oshie, Wilson taking all the difficult matchups off his plate? What happens this year when Vrana goes up against Boston and instead of drawing some combination of Charlie Coyle and Jake DeBrusk, he matches up against Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak?

I expect Vrana will have a better year than he's experienced in the past in total because of the increased minutes, but his elite rate/metrics take a significant step back from the levels he's enjoyed previously. He's going to be asked to be a lot more than a matchup nightmare this year; he's going to be asked to be a well rounded play driver. And if he's going to cash in next year, that's what he needs to demonstrate.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If Vrana goes to arbitration, it makes it much less likely he will remain with the team long term. The Athletic's recent prediction that Vrana will be here for the 2025-26 I find unlikely.

There isn't an if. Vrana is in arbitration today. They are hearing the case today.

Also, Vrana knew he had a small sample size of success. He went to arbitration to bring his time in Washington into discussion. I don't think him going to arb is indicative of wanting to leave. It's wanting to push for a fair contract with his whole resume and not just the 11 points in his short time with the Wings they could call a fluke.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You have literally no proof that’s the case

What more proof do you need? Mantha went one direction while Vrana, a first, Panik, and a second went the other direction. What else do you need to see as "proof" that Mantha was valued quite a bit more than any one piece in that return...whether that piece is Vrana, the first, the cap space. Mantha was deemed by Washington to be worth all of it.

 

[SCD]

There isn't an if. Vrana is in arbitration today. They are hearing the case today.

Also, Vrana knew he had a small sample size of success. He went to arbitration to bring his time in Washington into discussion. I don't think him going to arb is indicative of wanting to leave. It's wanting to push for a fair contract with his whole resume and not just the 11 points in his short time with the Wings they could call a fluke.

I love the attitude some of you guys have, especially when you are wrong. Arbitration starts on Wednesday August 11th.

 

[ThankGord]

Well we have reached the first "elite goals per 60 in limited ice time will undoubtedly translate seamlessly with more time despite better competition" argument, as predicted.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. What I said was, "he'll produce." To me, that high goals/60 shows a player that is ready for and deserves a larger role.