Sportsnet: Erik Karlsson opens up about leaving Ottawa (Video)

[DueDiligence]

Trolls gonna troll you guys...don't feed it

Great contribution!

 

[armani]

You know, I don't think anyone is especially pleased that EK is gone, let alone that he was moved under such shady circumstances. But as I watch this, it sinks in more and more that a big reason why I'm still so upset about this is because Erik was an amazing ambassador for Ottawa. He GETS the city and the culture in a way that few Sens people have. Alfredsson, obviously, comes to mind. Turris. Murray. But it's a short list. EK understands what we're all about. Being understated. Maybe a bit underdoggish. Going about our business without needing flashiness or accolades... but of course striving to be recognized. Having fun with the little things. And most importantly, being straight-shooters and telling it like it is.

It's an ideal I think a lot of us aspire to but not a lot can claim to have hit yet. Karlsson did. Alfredsson did. Turris did. And I feel pretty confident in saying that Karlsson represents the values of a city like Ottawa much better than most people who aren't from the area could ever aspire to, and moreover, more than some people who ARE from the area. Karlsson is much more of an Ottawa boy, in my mind, than Pierre Dorion could ever hope to be.

Trading KArlsson didn't just rip out the franchise's best player. I think on some level, it ripped out the city's heart.

 

[The Lewler]

I dont actually agree with the all we had to do is offer him a fair contract line.

I think the scenario was basically this :

Karlsson:

• Karlsson wanted to stay in Ottawa, but not with Melnyk as owner.
• Karlsson had been told that there was a good chance that an ownership change was coming .
• Karlsson was willing to just play out the year to buy time for an ownership change.
• Karlsson appears to have not seriously considered that the team would be likely to trade him in this scenario.
• You receive an extension in the ballpark of your expected salary but with no bonus perks or a NMC. You either get your agent to ask for it or you just sit back and say let's see them sweat.

-The main doubt we should have in this scenario is if Karlsson would have signed with an NMC with Melnyk still at the helm.

- It's an easy thing missing to use after the fact as justification for telling them to kick rocks , because it should be automatic if you are a franchise player. If the NMC was there , would the reason given for rejection be the structure ? Probably.

No NMC is also a reason that fans will stay on your side for. In contrast, lacking signing bonuses would be understandable reason to reject for hardcore fans, but probably less so for casual ones... eg "boo hoo he gets paid 11 million over the year instead of on July 1, what an entitled baby, bad leader , sad ! Etc ".

Finally, my personal interpretation of things is Karlsson is still keeping that door unusually open about UFA. Which I can only assume is at least in part a consideration to the first points , that he wants to be in Ottawa and he keeps hearing Melnyk is on the ropes. No direct evidence to support that belief , but it is my belief none the less.


TEAM:

• From the team side, an ownership change is not something they plan around.
• Melnyk was looking to shed payroll by all means necessary heading into Lebreton with the fanbase in revolt, and directed his management group accordingly.
• Karlsson is a huge asset to trade and to shed salary cost going forward he would be the key.
• This decision appears to have been considered a way back, as everyone was asked for their NTC lists.
• In keeping with the salary motivation, the team was striving towards sending Karlsson and Ryan to Vegas at the deadline. For some reason that fell through but it was serious enough that Ryan and Karlsson heard about it.
• Fanbase goes into full on rebellion at this news.
• Townhalls are held and an attempt is made to calm the water by saying they will offer him a contract on July 1 and he wont be traded at the Draft. (This appears to be possibly a panic decision by Melnyk honestly , as if trading him was your goal, why would you constrict your options more than needed ?)
• July 1 comes and you offer up a contract with fair market dollars attached with none of the perks other players of EK stature would get automatically.
• Worst case is Karlsson signs, you owe minimal bonus money to your marquee player. This gets you out of your PR jam temporarily, and now you have an extended Karlsson to shop whenever you want.
• Alternatively you can use the structure of Karlssons contract to club Stone and Duchene into submission. Maybe you dont trade him at all if the ticket sales rebound with his extension and a Tkatchuk arrival plus extending possibly one of Stone or Duchene and trading the other.
• Best case for you, he doesnt sign and you say he forced your hand. If you get no counter offer back that strengthens this narrative.

Then we get into actually panic trading him, which is a whole different post.

 

[branch]

Great contribution!

Thanks champ

 

[GoSensGo]

Am I alone in feeling like, once again, it is gently being pointed out how much we have been lied to? Knowing that EK thought he was gone in February, how does management say that they weren't looking to trade him? Every indication is that this was up for offer since the time they asked for his "no trade" list. (And it does explain why he picked up "that" puck at the end of the season.)

I can handle trades, but I have always hated being lied to. And management is lying to the fanbase. I am still an Ottawa Senator's team fan, but I am not a fan of the shot-callers. Not these days.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It was a real offer; Karlsson just wanted $88 million plus a NMC plus most of that money paid as bonuses. Yes he wanted to stay in Ottawa if he got everything he asked for. The team choose not to give him the latter two which is their prerogative.

It's not a real offer if it didn't have an NMC. That's a given for any star let alone a top 5 in the league superstar.

 

[SensHulk]

Am I alone in feeling like, once again, it is gently being pointed out how much we have been lied to? Knowing that EK thought he was gone in February, how does management say that they weren't looking to trade him? Every indication is that this was up for offer since the time they asked for his "no trade" list. (And it does explain why he picked up "that" puck at the end of the season.

I can handle trades, but I have always hated being lied to. And management is lying to the fanbase. I am still an Ottawa Senator's team fan, but I am not a fan of the shot-callers. Not these days.

Not alone at all, see my post above. The lies are so blatant now that I actually think a group of sens STHs can sue the sens org (Dorion and Melnyk) for lying to them point blank in a public forum while it's been established that they were indeed trying to trade Karlsson. The argument can be that this was done for financial gain to 'lie' to STHs for renewal purposes.

Another point: look at how they have dealt with Stone and Duchene, also pending FAs that obviously received more marketing than Karlsson ever did. Why were they treated differently than Karlsson? It's so f***ing clear

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Not alone at all, see my post above. The lies are so blatant now that I actually think a group of sens STHs can sue the sens org (Dorion and Melnyk) for lying to them point blank in a public forum while it's been established that they were indeed trying to trade Karlsson. The argument can be that this was done for financial gain to 'lie' to STHs for renewal purposes.

Another point: look at how they have dealt with Stone and Duchene, also pending FAs that obviously received more marketing than Karlsson ever did. Why were they treated differently than Karlsson? It's so ****ing clear

“We can’t negotiate until July 1st”

*Every other elite player a year away from UFA agrees to an extension weeks before*

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I think that the team made the choice to use Karlsson to kick off a rebuild because with all the bad money on the books, they could not re-sign Karl/Duchene/Stone to market value deals and be competitive under Melnyk's restrictions. Going into a rebuild until all the bad money finished up was the only thing that made sense due to the financial restrictions this team operates under. I think when they made this choice, they expected to get back better pieces, and ultimately I'd guess in private despite what he has to say publicly, Dorion probably considers the return to be a disaster.

Public image wise, Karlsson is in a position where he benefits huge from this because the team never actually played this in a way where Karl would have to make a legitimate choice about staying in Ottawa. They never gave Karlsson a chance to become the bad guy.

I think they half realized this after the trade deadline, but it was too late because to most fans, it already seemed transparent that they were trying to move him. This entire thing was handled really poorly. If the team was going to wait until the 2018 off season to trade Karlsson anyways, they should have never shopped him at the deadline, eventually offered him a contract in good faith (8 years, 88M, NMC, some signing bonuses), and let him be the one to turn it down. That way, he becomes the bad guy.

If Melnyk was never seriously going to allow a contract like that to be signed if Karlsson cracked and signed it, they shouldn't have played games and should have just traded him at the TDL when his value would have been at it's peak.

They didn't know this at the TDL, but they would have been thrown a huge bone by Drew Doughty negotiating a very soft contract with the Kings. Doughty's 88M contract only has 20M in signing bonuses, with only 2M of lockout protection. It also only has a NMC for the first four seasons. The Sens could have offered Karlsson the exact same deal, which I assume he would have likely turned down because it's a bad deal, but the Sens would then have actually looked reasonable in this scenario because most people don't have the perception of the salary cap to realize how soft Doughty's deal was.

What I am saying, is it's useless arguing whether Karlsson truly wanted to stay or not, because the team flip flopped so much and mishandled this to the point that he never got the chance to be put in a position where we'd find out if he'd stay. The Senators should have either dealt Karl at the deadline, or if the PR ramifications were a big enough deal be patient enough to wait until he rejects a serious offer made in good faith so he could be painted as the bad guy. Now, not only did they get a very soft return, but they didn't benefit from a PR perspective because their handling of the situation further enforced the image that they are dishonest and weren't acting in good faith when it came to retaining most of their fans favourite player.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

It's not a real offer if it didn't have an NMC. That's a given for any star let alone a top 5 in the league superstar.

People need to think about this logically.

Karl and his agent are more plugged in than us, they have an idea of what is going on in terms of Karl being traded. It's pretty clear to us fans who aren't as plugged in that there was a ton of activity at the trade deadline, so what do Karl's people know that we never found out in February? Probably a lot.

If Dorion and co are acting in good faith when offering Karl a contract, and coming from a perspective that they were wrong to shop him, and they want him to stay, how could Karlsson's people take their word at face value if there isn't some sort of assurance in the contract via a NMC?

Even if it is normal for a player like Karlsson not to be offered a NMC right away as a means of negotiating up to that, given the situation, it'd make no sense for the Senators if they were acting in good faith not to have a NMC in any offer they make to Karlsson as a way to display that they are serious about keeping him after what happened at the TDL.

(It is mentioned a lot, but keep in mind, NMCs' can be retroactively added to the final year of a previous deal when an extension is signed. So if Karl extended, he could have it added in to his current contract.)

 

[DaveMatthew]

I keep hearing Alfredsson, coming in as a new owner ......... where is he getting 550 - 600 million US from?

Alfredsson would come in only as perhaps a part owner, or more liley as part of a mangement team with a new owner.

Alfredsson would probably by the figurehead of an ownership group, with a small stake of the team given to him as compensation for his involvement. The value of his percentage would match the value of his goodwill.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

People need to think about this logically.

Karl and his agent are more plugged in than us, they have an idea of what is going on in terms of Karl being traded. It's pretty clear to us fans who aren't as plugged in that there was a ton of activity at the trade deadline, so what do Karl's people know that we never found out in February? Probably a lot.

If Dorion and co are acting in good faith when offering Karl a contract, and coming from a perspective that they were wrong to shop him, and they want him to stay, how could Karlsson's people take their word at face value if there isn't some sort of assurance in the contract via a NMC?

Even if it is normal for a player like Karlsson not to be offered a NMC right away as a means of negotiating up to that, given the situation, it'd make no sense for the Senators if they were acting in good faith not to have a NMC in any offer they make to Karlsson as a way to display that they are serious about keeping him after what happened at the TDL.

(It is mentioned a lot, but keep in mind, NMCs' can be retroactively added to the final year of a previous deal when an extension is signed. So if Karl extended, he could have it added in to his current contract.)

Exactly. It was a situation that needed more than an offer to be "presented on July 1."

Convince him he is the face of the franchise. Sell him on the future of the team. Convince him you can keep some talent around him. Give him an nmc retroactively. Make him a priority that he is your franchise player.

 

[SensHulk]

“We can’t negotiate until July 1st”

*Every other elite player a year away from UFA agrees to an extension weeks before*

HAHA oh that's gold!

 

[BonkTastic]

Jeez.

This team could have asked Karlsson to eat a dog turd, and there are one or two posters around here who would have put the blame on Karlsson for not bringing his own utensils.

You know who I'm talking about here.

 

[hawthy]

So do you believe int his or not? You say you don't support or believe in this team, but you will cheer from home and be mad when they lose. You can't turn that tap off forever. Maybe this year you do, sounds like you do. Hopefully hockey will be fun for you again someday . This doesn't sound like fun.

I don't support or believe in the DIRECTION and COMPETENCE of the team. Whether the Sens are contenders, rebuilding or anything in between, that doesn't stop me from supporting them. It's how they got here and how they operate and what I believe to be misguided priorities leading to the worst decisions being made (both on and off the ice) - or possibly the reverse depending on what you perceive to be the horse and carriage, that had caused me to pull back financially.

Do I believe in Melnyk and D'Ohrion? No. That's easy. One meddles in operations he quite clearly knows little about, while the other doesn't seem to execute personnel decisions with any type of sense. No, I don't believe in this. It's rooted quite deeply.

To your next point regarding my non-financial support while cheering/booing as a fan would, yes, I can dissociate my wallet from my heart. This is, admittedly, a new phenomenon for me as I never used to be able to. It's not a matter of the tap turning off and on, the fact is it's off now because I dislike our owner and although it's been beaten into oblivion, I think regardless, we are at a disadvantage while he owns. He was cheap when the building was full during the Pizza Line days, too, but I'm not interested in listing the reasons I don't like Melnyk. I shouldn't have to. When you don't have faith in the most mission-critical (and rightfully at that) aspects of a professional organization, this is what can happen. I'm not choosing to feel this way. I feel this way, full stop. I don't wish ill on the team on the ice, but I can detach my disposable income from them. I've had it. To use your tap reference, speaking only for myself, my tap will definitely turn back on when I believe in the people who impact it so seriously. So if I've ever said something to the effect of "I'll reinvest when Melnyk sells", it's because I know with almost certainty a pattern of non-ineptitude and/or professionalism can't be sustained under this regime. If it does, I'd certainly revisit because it would show they are committed to doing things right. I think we both know that won't happen status quo, so that's why, generally, I position it as "if we get a new owner". The priorities here are out of whack.

Cheering for a mickey-mouse organization is not fun. You're assessment there is accurate. Hockey itself and my love for my most favourite team, I never once claimed to be gone. The main difference between the two of us is that you don't seem to be able to separate your finances from your passion. Hockey is always fun for me. The Sens winning is always fun for me. How things have deteriorated, though, is not fun. You're right, not fun at all.

But tonight, I'll be doing exactly what I want to do: posted up on my couch, cold....oh God I better have something better than Moosehead in the fridge....and hoping for some good, exciting hockey. I wish it wasn't this way, but I know a) this isn't my fault, and b) I'm comfortable with how I feel.

Yes, I would rather have NOT had the Sens alienate a good chunk of their fan base. I would rather, regardless of the cyclical state of the team on the ice, be AT the home opener, but those are not the cards I was dealt relative to how I view things right now.

For some reason, I have a feeling they'll win tonight. Seriously. I am looking forward to seeing the team we have here. For the reasons I've stated all summer and before, however, I won't be there. I'm passionate, but I'm convicted.

 

[Agent Zub]

One of the most annoying parts about this is seeing the people who go out of their way to defend people who lie and don't give a shit about them.

People who are sheep and have an appeal to authority for everything are annoying as hell.

 

[SensFactor]

The cancer is out of the room. Hoffman traded and Karlsson traded. We have new leadership now. New voices to lead us in the locker room.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The cancer is out of the room. Hoffman traded and Karlsson traded. We have new leadership now. New voices to lead us in the locker room.

What a crock. Is this what they'll say about Stone and Duchene when they trade them too?

You don't improve a team by giving away 2 of your 4 best players for peanuts.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

The cancer is out of the room. Hoffman traded and Karlsson traded. We have new leadership now. New voices to lead us in the locker room.

You forgot #OttawaRising.

 

[BondraTime]

The cancer is out of the room. Hoffman traded and Karlsson traded. We have new leadership now. New voices to lead us in the locker room.

Dorion got through to you I see

#OttawaRising is hitting it's audience

 

[SensFactor]

Boys and girls, we have a season opener tonight. I get the pain, I do. However, can't you put that aside for one night and cheer on our team? You have 81 games to be bitter.

 

[Alex1234]

Jeez.

This team could have asked Karlsson to eat a dog turd, and there are one or two posters around here who would have put the blame on Karlsson for not bringing his own utensils.

You know who I'm talking about here.

Who needs ustensils when you can put your canine teeth in someone’s neck at night?

 

[BondraTime]

Boys and girls, we have a season opener tonight. I get the pain, I do. However, can't you put that aside for one night and cheer on our team? You 81 games to be bitter.

You are the one who said "the cancer is out of the room".

You brought it on yourself with idiotic statements like that. That has nothing to do with the season opener.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Boys and girls, we have a season opener tonight. I get the pain, I do. However, can't you put that aside for one night and cheer on our team? You have 81 games to be bitter.

We have the GDT's for that. Although, remember GDT's when we were winning and....yeah, as it seems like you have a positive attitude, but good luck!

 

[Alex1234]

You forgot #OttawaRising.

And #Melnykformayor