Erik Karlsson Discussion Thread Part II - NORRIS Edition

[Engineer]

No worries. Drew will be Drew Who? in 30 years, while Erik's name will be cemented with Orr and Lidstrom.

Besides, after Doughty looked like complete garbage in the playoffs this year after his campaign for the Norris, there is a lot of writers with massive egg on their faces right now. He's not going to get more than a handful high votes ever again.

Drew royally screwed himself over not only with his campaign, but with how he reacted after winning it (the crocodile tears) and his idiotic comments afterwards.

Can you expand, or is there a video i can be linked to

 

[Sens Rule]

This snub will actually be better for the Sens and Karlsson. He'll have a bit of a chip on his shoulder next year, and will likely be motivated to be even better.

He called this season a disappointment. And I doubt that was just a disappointment with how the team did. I think he was also disappointed with himself.

You have to love a player that has one of the best seasons for a defenceman in decades who is not at all satisfied with his game. That is a Gretzky-like attitude. Karlsson expects to basically be the best player on the ice every single night over all 200 feet. Anything less is not good enough. That is the kind of players that are the best. Ultra-competitve, expecting as close to perfection as possible, working at all the wholes in their games.

That is who Karlsson is. A Gretzky, Crosby, Scott Stevens like player. Driven and ultra competitive. Really playing to his own "bar" of how good he can be. I am certain he believes he played below his own high bar this season, and that he will be even better next year.

 

[OgieO]

When I watched Doughty, games vs the Sens and the playoffs, Doughty struggled and was not as good as Karlsson defensively. I am sure he was much better in other games, but he is not some monster elite defensive D-Man. He isn't NJ Scott Stevens, or Lidstrom or Chicago era Chelios that almost never made mistakes and absolutely dominated the ice defensively.

I don't think Weber was that ever either.

If a far lower scoring Defenceman is to beat Karlsson, he better be playing like Stevens or Langway defensively.

I actually think if we add the playoffs to the season the best defenceman of the 15/16 season are Burns and Letang.

Agree 100%. Though I stick Hedman up there in that group.

 

[Viletho]

Can you expand, or is there a video i can be linked to

For the crocodile tears, he said he thanks is family for all the support and told his mom to stop crying cuz it will make him cry too. Something like that. I guess that what he's talking about.. no problem with that.

For the other comment.. i don't know.

Go on Nhl.com for is winning speech.

 

[swiftwin]

To be honest, if you had told me this would happen a couple months ago, I'd be pissed.

But today?

I'm not even that mad. Karlsson's already won it twice. Everybody knows Doughty got a pity Norris. Karlsson's individual accomplishments, doing many things that haven't been done in decades, last season stand out way more than the Norris does. Karlsson will get a few more later in his career. This was Doughty's one and done.

 

[Samboni]

I think that there should be an award for the best offensive defenceman - the Bobby Orr Award.

 

[swiftwin]

I think that there should be an award for the best offensive defenceman - the Bobby Orr Award.

But then Karlsson would just win both.

They need a defensive defenseman award.

 

[SPF6ty9]

I'll be honest, I didn't think it was Karlsson's best year and I'm fine with Doughty winning it. Ya the points were gaudy, but he just didn't have the same dynamic effect on the game I expect of him and have seen (like in the run in 2015). I think Karlsson knows this too, with his commitment to getting in better shape this year. Either way, who cares. It's an award for the players, shouldn't be a big deal to us. I'm sure Karlsson will come out next year and while he may not get the big point total; I expect him to show his best form to date.

 

[OgieO]

Just fodder for debate.

 

[Bileur]

Just fodder for debate.

It's not even close. The only argument is the playoff point.

 

[Proust*]

The best hockey Karlsson every played remains his injury shortened season.

17 games, but he was first to every point on the ice and was likely going to win the Norris.

 

[darglor]

I burst out laughing when Doughty won... I actually managed to get someone to give me 2 to 1 odds on it so I made a couple hundred dollars. The media's been on a crusade to get Doughty a Norris since Christmas, so this didn't exactly come out of left field.

Now the LA defenseman has got his "Due Doughty" Norris. He's not going to get another one on the same terms and will have to actually be the best in a single season, which is something he's still never done.

There's a reason why every year, the Norris conversation is always Karlsson vs whoever had a career season...

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I think that there should be an award for the best offensive defenceman - the Bobby Orr Award.

Bobby Orr was insanely good at both ends of the ice. Calling an offensive defenseman trophy the Bobby Orr trophy is a disservice to the best defenseman to ever play the game.

 

[Micklebot]

Just fodder for debate.

Does anyone know where those numbers were sourced from?

 

[Smash88]

The amount of times I've heard people say he doesn't play defence because he doesn't kill penalties is insane. I understand HF thinking that way, since it's mostly a trolling thing, but the amount of respected people repeating that is a little weird. You would think they would understand why he doesn't do it.

Darren Dreger going out of his way to mention how Doughty deserved it every chance he gets is pretty comical.

Doughty is awesome and would probably win a Norris is his career at some point, it's just funny they did it this year, when Karlsson was actually ahead in most of the defensive categories, while blowing him out of the water in the offensive ones.

You can tell a lot of people who vote on these, don't actually watch either player.

 

[Knave]

The writers had a choice:

One of greatest offensive seasons by a defenseman ever

or

Drew Doughty.

They're idiots so they went with Drew Doughty. Everyone saw it coming a mile away. No one was accusing them of being intelligent people. Doughty cried like a 7 year old schoolgirl since last offseason for the award and because he's a good Canadian boy he got it.

 

[Samboni]

Bobby Orr was insanely good at both ends of the ice. Calling an offensive defenseman trophy the Bobby Orr trophy is a disservice to the best defenseman to ever play the game.

Maybe, but IMO naming an offensive defenceman trophy named after someone else would be a disservice as well.

 

[Knave]

Can you expand, or is there a video i can be linked to

It's basically: "I'm not about the individual awards". The guy openly campaigned for this trophy the past 2 years and got all of Canada's media on board to do it.

He's pathetic to say the least. My confirmation was this year in the playoffs. The guy was openly sulking when his team got scored on. His body language was always "not my fault - it's your fault".

 

[Jorge Garcia]

Maybe, but IMO naming an offensive defenceman trophy named after someone else would be a disservice as well.

Keep the Norris for the best player who is a defenceman (like Karlsson this year and most years) and offer a new defensive Dman award for plodding pluggers like Doughty. (Although, looking at the numbers, Karlsson probably should have won both this year. Dominated all the advanced stats, had fewer giveaways and way more takeaways, even had more shot blocks. It really was a ridiculous vote.)

 

[HavlatMach9]

Does anyone know where those numbers were sourced from?

for real. I wouldn't even paste those around till then.

 

[DrEasy]

How are those numbers when prorated to ice time? I do realize the fact that the additional ice time Karlsson gets is itself a positive factor in his favor, but still.

 

[HavlatMach9]

i wouldn't try to scrutinize those stats. I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

[BondraTime]

There is no need for advanced stats when determining this stuff. Most of it is irrelevant anyways.

All it takes is for a group of people who understand hockey (not saying that all the media guys don't understand hockey, a large majority do) and have watched enough of the top guys. It's little things that don't show up on advanced stats bs that can make a player outstanding. Both DD and EK have these facets to their game.

I don't think having media vote on awards is a great idea, but it is what is.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

The loss is partially on Murray and Melnyk.

If we made the playoffs, the Norris would have been Karlsson's.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Should have just asked Paul Coffey.