Erie Otters 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 2)

[J Simmons]

Also, excited for Misa but I think the term exceptional status has everyone jumping the gun a bit too much right now, not to say it’s undeserved or not true, I just feel that this year more than most is different.

 

[ZinErie]

Saw a Hockey News article where Malcolm Spence said he was a Penguins fan.

 

[OttersFan]

The lottery order feels “too perfect” to me

Niagara at 4 because of all their off ice issues makes total sense. Sudbury at 3 because they literally just won the lottery last year. Erie at 2 because they need help and you want US teams being relevant. Saginaw at 1 where their record said they would pick

Hmmmm

This is why I DONT want a lottery every year. I don’t trust it unless I physically see them pulling teams from a hat. Even that isn’t verified from your living room couch..

That's how I felt. I wish they would pull live. Just because an attorney verified the results doesn't mean they don't have bias. Of course, I'll take 2nd overall, but if I'm a fan from a lower pick, i'd be disappointed in the results. I wish they were determined live to give it a more random draw.

 

[Savard18]

Either way, I don’t think he’s a McDavid/Tavares prospect. It’s not a slam dunk pick and Erie needs some size up front, so adding a 15 year undersized guy to their forward group seems concerning. Just saying

I would take him for sure but I would rather Saginaw gets him and we have the best 2006 forward we want. I don’t want to feel obligated to take him off ES alone.

Congrats on #2. I totally agree with you on Misa (at this point. We could be wrong) and the legitimacy and fairness in a lottery. It could end up being REALLY unfair some years even if it’s weighted and a legit lottery.

 

[OttersFan]

I guess you don't even need to call McDavid if you're trying to sway a player. Look at Strome. He was a top pick, and needed more time to develop. He wasn't the biggest or fastest player (by a long shot), but he had a great IQ. I think that's what we look for in the 2nd pick. While Misa is hyped, and as much as we were trying to get #1, #2 is still going to be a good pick. I will have to do some research prior to the draft day to get a good look at all top prospects.

Where do we pick in the import draft?

 

[Mata]

Saw a Hockey News article where Malcolm Spence said he was a Penguins fan.

I think 2nd pick is going to have the best pick, not being biased. There are a lot of good players and there will be a ton of pressure to select Misa. Not sure he is day one the best, but it opens up a lot of options for us at number 2.

 

[NOA]

Hot take(s):

anyone who thought we were out first round is plain not paying attention

Despite Hoff Damato and sellan being underwhelming OAs, Hartsburg is entirely to blame for their development as well as the development of our current younger players

I will genuinely miss those guys considering they had more intangibles than 99% of the league

They just landed the 2nd overall pick. I don’t care if they went to the conference finals - this is a better spot to be in and what this team needs. Particularly when there is an ES player on the board. Either Erie has a shot at him or the best 2006 born player

 

[NOA]

I guess you don't even need to call McDavid if you're trying to sway a player. Look at Strome. He was a top pick, and needed more time to develop. He wasn't the biggest or fastest player (by a long shot), but he had a great IQ. I think that's what we look for in the 2nd pick. While Misa is hyped, and as much as we were trying to get #1, #2 is still going to be a good pick. I will have to do some research prior to the draft day to get a good look at all top prospects.

Where do we pick in the import draft?

Import has to just be based on standings. In which case, Erie will be top 12. I think they will be at 12th overall as the OHL had the first pick last year in the import. Either way, 10-12th overall.

 

[NOA]

You are correct...all indications are he isn't on the McDavid/Tavares level.

There is a lot of talk that in order to gain ES he has to agree to report to where he is drafted, but that isn't confirmed. In addition, not really sure anyone who had ES didn't report to the team that drafted them anyways. I think most is hypothetical.

There was also mention in the interview Misa was looking at University/College as another option if he didn't like his drafting team.

Again at least Erie has some options at 2nd overall. With Misa, they can use the McDavid card or try to sway him with NHL alumni. But let’s just hope that Saginaw takes him and we don’t have to deal with the potential headache

 

[Mata]

 

[Mata]

This will have to be a grand slam pick at number two given Misa, Spence, Hage, Villenueve, etc. If not, then DB should be on the hot seat by round two.

 

[OttersFan]

This will have to be a grand slam pick at number two given Misa, Spence, Hage, Villenueve, etc. If not, then DB should be on the hot seat by round two.

If he picks a defenseman at #2, I will turn the draft off immediately and hope the 2nd round goes better. I have faith that DB will make the right call, but also can see them blowing it at the same time. We need a quality forward. We have lots of needs but the priority should be a skilled forward who can move the puck. We need help on the PP. We need someone good around the crease and can find ways to score.

 

[DubCee21]

Also,

Erie has a 1st, 2nd, but no 3rd rounder this season unless a trade is made.

Erie Otters

ottershockey.com

Erie has 2 2nd rd picks, their own and Soo's so that is more or less slightly better than a 3rd. They 15 picks overall in this draft.

This coming from the Otters newsletter email tonight. "Erie currently has 15 picks in the 2022 Priority Selection Draft, with two on day one (1st Round 2nd Overall, 2nd Round [SOO]), and 13 on day two (4th [NIAG conditional], 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, three in 13th [FLNT, NIAG], 14th, 15th). Draft Picks are subject to change leading up to the day of the Draft. "

 

[HockeyPops]

Where do you see their own 2nd in there?

 

[NOA]

If he picks a defenseman at #2, I will turn the draft off immediately and hope the 2nd round goes better. I have faith that DB will make the right call, but also can see them blowing it at the same time. We need a quality forward. We have lots of needs but the priority should be a skilled forward who can move the puck. We need help on the PP. We need someone good around the crease and can find ways to score.

They aren’t going to pick D after going with Drysdale/Sova in 2 of the last 4 drafts. They know they need scoring. Not to mention that the top 4 for almost every scout includes all forwards. It would be a reach to go D at 2, on top of that not being the need

If he takes someone unexpected then it’s possible that players don’t want to commit here but given the top of the board, you better land at least 1 of the consensus top 4. If they don’t want to commit then call their bluff and/or trade them and get the comp pick

Btw Brown noted they are looking to get bigger. That’s not Misa.. I expect they want one of Spence, Villeneuve, or Hage.

 

[DubCee21]

Where do you see their own 2nd in there?

Nevermind, I read too fast and saw 2nd and 2nd

 

[MJ5]

Erie has 2 2nd rd picks, their own and Soo's so that is more or less slightly better than a 3rd. They 15 picks overall in this draft.

This coming from the Otters newsletter email tonight. "Erie currently has 15 picks in the 2022 Priority Selection Draft, with two on day one (1st Round 2nd Overall, 2nd Round [SOO]), and 13 on day two (4th [NIAG conditional], 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, three in 13th [FLNT, NIAG], 14th, 15th). Draft Picks are subject to change leading up to the day of the Draft. "

Erie Otters

2022

SSM 2nd

---

---

5th*

PBO 6th

7th

---

9th

10th

11th

12th

13th NIA 13th FLNT 13th

14th

15th

You only have Soo's 2nd.

 

[EON]

2nd overall, that's a pretty nice stroke of luck. They'll likely get their pick from Hage, Spence, and Villenueve now, as I'd be a bit surprised if Saginaw didn't take Misa #1. Adding one of those guys plus a good forward with the #12 import pick will add much needed skill into the top of the lineup next season.

 

[J Simmons]

They just landed the 2nd overall pick. I don’t care if they went to the conference finals - this is a better spot to be in and what this team needs. Particularly when there is an ES player on the board. Either Erie has a shot at him or the best 2006 born player

Even if they just did they had an opportunity to play a team they had dominated during the year. And eventually play a team in the second round they could’ve possibly beat. Saying this years team was a contender was a long shot but if Erie fans are genuinely chanting “miss for misa” expecting this kid to single-handedly push us back into playoffs (like idk, the last 3 top 10 picks have helped at all), then those specific fans don’t know what missing the playoffs 4 straight years does to a team and a culture. As far as I’m concerned I can come back to this thread in 9 months and it’ll be a blame train all over again.

I’m genuinely surprised we haven’t had more players leave this team too. D’amato guaranteed was getting offers left and right. Most teams who are now contending wanted a player like him. He’s a point producing sizeable forward who gives maximum effort 24/7 and who’ll succeed in the AHL.

Lockhart had to have been wanting to leave at one point at the very least. He’s close with mactavish and I even heard a rumour that he was supposed to get dealt to Hamilton at one point to reunite. Even then he definitely was getting told by Vancouver or his agent to get out of Erie and play somewhere else.

Cohen, while not the biggest and strongest, was a point producing forward who could’ve gone for a decent amount.

Hoffmann, despite lackluster points, he exceeds in almost every advanced stat, is a big body, and is top 4 in the league in face offs. I heard at one point there were some teams in the Midwest that wanted a package of D’amato/Cohen or D’amato/Hoffmann.

All that aside. Look at what the situation is now if you were Michael Misa, the record breaking ES player who’s going to go 1-3.


Do you go to Saginaw:

A team square off of a losing year after being a more dominant team in the past 3-4 years, who have recent alumni that have had winning seasons that can vouch for the program and coaching they provide (Perfetti, Wilde, Suzuki, Tippett, Mcleod).
They also have a decent fan base but nothing like the big names of London and kitchener.. those are the positives.

Erie:

You have arguably the loudest and craziest fan base when you’re winning, which we haven’t. You have a large arena, extremely well funded team. You have a nice living community and a decent management group. You have some Alumni who can speak for the organization, but it’s changed for almost all of the alumni as they had different staff and atmosphere when they were there. (Mcdavid, if he’ll even say anything, Strome, Debrincat, Foegele, Cirelli, Cernak, Petit, Drysdale)


Sudbury:

An organization that is based in Canada, has a TON of draft eligible players getting attention right now. Musty, Goyette, Konyen etc. to name a couple in the next 1-2 years. A solid fan base with a below average rink. Not sure about the funding but it’s not bad. A culture that’s won a bit in the past couple years, Byfield mainly being there during that. Not many alumni, but it’s a Canadian team.

In short what I’m trying to say, Misa is going to see three organizations.
2 that have had prior success in the past 4 years.
1 that’s a Canadian market.
2 that have alumni.

If he wants to play this as any agent would want him to. Do not become eligible for this years draft. Go the US, claim that you want nothing to do with the OHL. Tease the NCAA route and if it serves you well, take a big name college and run with it. But if you want to go back to the OHL, wait until you’re either undrafted or drafted by the team you like, then report when you want to. You’re an ES player, you have pull in that market and you’re going to be able to allow yourself a good setup.

 

[Mata]

They aren’t going to pick D after going with Drysdale/Sova in 2 of the last 4 drafts. They know they need scoring. Not to mention that the top 4 for almost every scout includes all forwards. It would be a reach to go D at 2, on top of that not being the need

If he takes someone unexpected then it’s possible that players don’t want to commit here but given the top of the board, you better land at least 1 of the consensus top 4. If they don’t want to commit then call their bluff and/or trade them and get the comp pick

Btw Brown noted they are looking to get bigger. That’s not Misa.. I expect they want one of Spence, Villeneuve, or Hage.

Just for reference from eliteprospects:

Malcom Spence - 6' and 180
Nathan Villenueve 6' and 181
Michael Hage - 6' and 172
Michael Misa - 5'10 and 150

Not that Misa won't fill out (assumed), but the other 3 consensus top picks are already pretty broad in size.

Other mentioned names for top 5 considerations (forwards):

Kieron Walton - 6'5 and 203
Porter Martone - 6'3 and 180

There may be others but most people seem to be set on Spence and Villenueve being an immediate impact players.

I agree I hope we take a top forward and nail another in the import draft. Our defense seems pretty solid, but we have a lot of growing to do up front.

 

[NOA]

Just for reference from eliteprospects:

Malcom Spence - 6' and 180
Nathan Villenueve 6' and 181
Michael Hage - 6' and 172
Michael Misa - 5'10 and 150

Not that Misa won't fill out (assumed), but the other 3 consensus top picks are already pretty broad in size.

Other mentioned names for top 5 considerations (forwards):

Kieron Walton - 6'5 and 203
Porter Martone - 6'3 and 180

There may be others but most people seem to be set on Spence and Villenueve being an immediate impact players.

I agree I hope we take a top forward and nail another in the import draft. Our defense seems pretty solid, but we have a lot of growing to do up front.

I hope we don’t go with Walton or Martone. I always hesitate with guys that size coming into the league. A lot of their success could be based on just being the bigger kid in the playground and less about their skill. But luckily the top forward prospects, minus Misa, are 6’0 range and can grow nicely into a 6’1 type of frame which is ideal size in todays game imo

When Brown says the team is looking to get bigger, that has to be related to their forward group. Minus Kyrou on the backend, the defense has some decent size and everyone is over 6’0 with a few guys at 6’2 or above.

So, that tells me that Brown is essentially saying they need to address their size in the forward group where they have 5/6 undersized guys (concerning). Expect them to take a forward. I just hope they don’t think 6’5 is what they need. Hoffmann had big size but that doesn’t win you games. Skill first, size second.

 

[Mata]

I hope we don’t go with Walton or Martone. I always hesitate with guys that size coming into the league. A lot of their success could be based on just being the bigger kid in the playground and less about their skill. But luckily the top forward prospects, minus Misa, are 6’0 range and can grow nicely into a 6’1 type of frame which is ideal size in todays game imo

When Brown says the team is looking to get bigger, that has to be related to their forward group. Minus Kyrou on the backend, the defense has some decent size and everyone is over 6’0 with a few guys at 6’2 or above.

So, that tells me that Brown is essentially saying they need to address their size in the forward group where they have 5/6 undersized guys (concerning). Expect them to take a forward. I just hope they don’t think 6’5 is what they need. Hoffmann had big size but that doesn’t win you games. Skill first, size second.

You'd probably know better than most...

Outside of Saganiuk, Ross, and Artichuk for last years new players our forwards seem to be getting bigger in Lowe, Smith, Terrance.

Defensively too with Sova, Alboim, Sauder, Johnston, and Kulakov.

I know we have generally drafted for speed/skill over size, but the league seems to be changing somewhat.

 

[NOA]

Even if they just did they had an opportunity to play a team they had dominated during the year. And eventually play a team in the second round they could’ve possibly beat. Saying this years team was a contender was a long shot but if Erie fans are genuinely chanting “miss for misa” expecting this kid to single-handedly push us back into playoffs (like idk, the last 3 top 10 picks have helped at all), then those specific fans don’t know what missing the playoffs 4 straight years does to a team and a culture. As far as I’m concerned I can come back to this thread in 9 months and it’ll be a blame train all over again.

I’m genuinely surprised we haven’t had more players leave this team too. D’amato guaranteed was getting offers left and right. Most teams who are now contending wanted a player like him. He’s a point producing sizeable forward who gives maximum effort 24/7 and who’ll succeed in the AHL.

Lockhart had to have been wanting to leave at one point at the very least. He’s close with mactavish and I even heard a rumour that he was supposed to get dealt to Hamilton at one point to reunite. Even then he definitely was getting told by Vancouver or his agent to get out of Erie and play somewhere else.

Cohen, while not the biggest and strongest, was a point producing forward who could’ve gone for a decent amount.

Hoffmann, despite lackluster points, he exceeds in almost every advanced stat, is a big body, and is top 4 in the league in face offs. I heard at one point there were some teams in the Midwest that wanted a package of D’amato/Cohen or D’amato/Hoffmann.

All that aside. Look at what the situation is now if you were Michael Misa, the record breaking ES player who’s going to go 1-3.


Do you go to Saginaw:

A team square off of a losing year after being a more dominant team in the past 3-4 years, who have recent alumni that have had winning seasons that can vouch for the program and coaching they provide (Perfetti, Wilde, Suzuki, Tippett, Mcleod).
They also have a decent fan base but nothing like the big names of London and kitchener.. those are the positives.

Erie:

You have arguably the loudest and craziest fan base when you’re winning, which we haven’t. You have a large arena, extremely well funded team. You have a nice living community and a decent management group. You have some Alumni who can speak for the organization, but it’s changed for almost all of the alumni as they had different staff and atmosphere when they were there. (Mcdavid, if he’ll even say anything, Strome, Debrincat, Foegele, Cirelli, Cernak, Petit, Drysdale)


Sudbury:

An organization that is based in Canada, has a TON of draft eligible players getting attention right now. Musty, Goyette, Konyen etc. to name a couple in the next 1-2 years. A solid fan base with a below average rink. Not sure about the funding but it’s not bad. A culture that’s won a bit in the past couple years, Byfield mainly being there during that. Not many alumni, but it’s a Canadian team.

In short what I’m trying to say, Misa is going to see three organizations.
2 that have had prior success in the past 4 years.
1 that’s a Canadian market.
2 that have alumni.

If he wants to play this as any agent would want him to. Do not become eligible for this years draft. Go the US, claim that you want nothing to do with the OHL. Tease the NCAA route and if it serves you well, take a big name college and run with it. But if you want to go back to the OHL, wait until you’re either undrafted or drafted by the team you like, then report when you want to. You’re an ES player, you have pull in that market and you’re going to be able to allow yourself a good setup.

The debate about Misa isn’t really relevant here. He’s not a McDavid level prospect and I don’t really expect him to get past 1 overall. So at least for me, it wasn’t “Miss for Misa.” It’s not the reason I wanted to miss the playoffs. Misa is the reason I 100% wanted the 2nd pick though because you potentially have a chance to get the best 2006 born player if Misa goes one. If not, you get an ES player or the 2nd best 2006 player. Erie has options and good ones at that

Your reference of the last top 10 picks not being good is a bit misguided.

Drysdale 4th overall - Elite

Lockhart 3rd overall - Been disappointing but still has a chance to redeem himself

Sova 8th overall - Still promise there, only a rookie this year, but either way, he’s not a top 4 pick… not to mention a 2nd overall pick

Terrance 10th - See Sova

It’s not like Erie has had 4 top 3/4 picks in this rebuild. They had 2… Drysdale who was elite and because of COVID, left earlier than expected. Lockhart who is still an NHL pick that lost a year of development. The other 2 first rounders are 8 and 10 overall picks that JUST finished their rookie year. Jury still out on both but either way, they don’t have the same odds or expectations to be an elite player, though you hope at least 1 or both develop into great players.

Again, 2nd overall - especially this year - is SIGNIFICANT. Their last 2nd overall pick was Strome. Their only other one was McKegg. The last two 2nd overall picks in the OHL, Pano Fimis (2020) and Ritchie (2021), both made impacts on their teams this year.

Nobody says it’s a guarantee but your odds to land a franchise player, a la Dylan Strome, are much better at 2nd overall compared to 5,6,7 overall.. let alone 8,9,10 overall.

Whoever they draft is hopefully able to be an impact guy on the 3rd line. Something like 30-40 points would be reasonable. The goal is to then see Terrance, Bressette, and some others take the next step so they by 2023-24, you have a legit forward group. Especially if you add an import in the mix.

It’s virtually impossible to win in the OHL without top forward talent and skill. Erie hasn’t had that since 2017. Their best chance to get that is right now in this OHL draft/import draft. If you nail those picks, 2023-24 looks like a real opportunity

 

[NOA]

You'd probably know better than most...

Outside of Saganiuk, Ross, and Artichuk for last years new players our forwards seem to be getting bigger in Lowe, Smith, Terrance.

Defensively too with Sova, Alboim, Sauder, Johnston, and Kulakov.

I know we have generally drafted for speed/skill over size, but the league seems to be changing somewhat.

I could be wrong, this is speculation, but it seems that the small forward situation came out of Erie having a lack of high picks. I think - pure speculation - that they went with or were able to land guys like Saganiuk, Ross, Bressette, Artichuk because of their size. Smaller guys tend to fall in the draft unless they are just super elite. So, I think the approach was to maximize skill in the draft. They knew their rebuild wasn’t traditional because they didn’t have a high volume of picks. They tried to get creative and at least collect as much skill/speed or talent they could. Worst case scenario, you can always trade talent to get bigger. You can’t trade size for talent necessarily.

Now, they are needing to adjust and bring in some size again. When you are picking 2nd overall and all the top 2006 forward prospects are good sized, that helps. I would expect them to also go forward with size in the 2nd round and import draft. Then I think 4-6 round picks are focused on defensive prospects for 2023.

 

[NOA]