Erie Otters 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 2)

[Mata]

Sproule finished with 30g and 80+ points. Yikes, what a horrible trade. And all just to keep.. Sellan? Gulp. That combined with everything else we know of the year and F letter grade for BJ this year. Complete fail.

Side note: I believe I suggested we keep Sproule long ago over Sellan because as a former 1st rounder, he had the “breakout” potential. Instead, we did what we did and screwed it up. Nice

I don't think anyone could have stopped it (Sproule trade). There was too much of a love affair between Hartsburg, Sellan, Hoff, and D’Amato last year and I think he had his mind made up last season on who to keep. The only way Sproule would have stayed would have been if Dave Brown would have axed him earlier.

I honestly put more of it on upper management (previous drafts, development, and trades or lack there of) than BJ based on solely on what he was given and limited options...he was dealt a pretty crappy hand and I don’t have my mind made up on him being the right guy for HC or not, yet. I definitely agree in that the organization COULD need major changes and sooner rather than later.

 

[NOA]

I don't think anyone could have stopped it (Sproule trade). There was too much of a love affair between Hartsburg, Sellan, Hoff, and D’Amato last year and I think he had his mind made up last season on who to keep. The only way Sproule would have stayed would have been if Dave Brown would have axed him earlier.

I honestly put more of it on upper management (previous drafts, development, and trades or lack there of) than BJ based on solely on what he was given and limited options...he was dealt a pretty crappy hand and I don’t have my mind made up on him being the right guy for HC or not, yet. I definitely agree in that the organization COULD need major changes and sooner rather than later.

Sorry edit on my post. I meant F for Brown but said BJ. It’s been a long year referencing both of them that I have started to mix them up
My bad

 

[nelli27]

Congrats to Spencer Sova and Nolan Lalonde, selected to represent Canada in the U18 hockey championship.

 

[J Simmons]

I feel bad that we never got to see the 17-91-44 line in the playoffs, if anything I feel that line would’ve been an exciting surprise to see.

I think people can’t fault this team as much as they are. What are the obvious failures of this team?

Trading sproule for that low of a price but who could’ve seen that coming.
Hiring BJ halfway through the season with a team that was already in clear disdain towards Hartsburg. (Also, contrary to popular belief, I don’t believe the OAs that were kept were as close with Hartsburg as people believe, especially not Hoffmann from what I’ve heard)
Not being able to get any Europeans across for us other than Kulakov.

I think we got screwed by Covid harder than anyone. The team we could’ve had, the experience we could’ve gotten, and the momentum we should’ve gotten is what’s sorely missed and what will be sorely missed until a couple more years…

 

[NOA]

I feel bad that we never got to see the 17-91-44 line in the playoffs, if anything I feel that line would’ve been an exciting surprise to see.

I think people can’t fault this team as much as they are. What are the obvious failures of this team?

Trading sproule for that low of a price but who could’ve seen that coming.
Hiring BJ halfway through the season with a team that was already in clear disdain towards Hartsburg. (Also, contrary to popular belief, I don’t believe the OAs that were kept were as close with Hartsburg as people believe, especially not Hoffmann from what I’ve heard)
Not being able to get any Europeans across for us other than Kulakov.

I think we got screwed by Covid harder than anyone. The team we could’ve had, the experience we could’ve gotten, and the momentum we should’ve gotten is what’s sorely missed and what will be sorely missed until a couple more years…

You asked what the failures were and then just listed multiple failures.

As it relates to Brown:

1) Retained Hartsburg for another year despite mediocrity the prior 3 years. Yes, he fired him quickly but that left them with just 2 coaches and a guy in BJ that is just that, a guy. I don’t think he is the long term solution
2) They had just 1 import on their roster and overall have failed miserably to have impact imports play here. Kulakov wasn’t bad but didn’t make a huge impact overall
3) They traded Sproule for peanuts but kept Sellan. Speaks to a lack of coaching, a lack of personnel scouting, and a lack of guts. They almost certainly kept Sellan because of his personality and character. What fun!
4) Campbell got hurt (not their fault) but they didn’t address it and rode their 17 year old first year goalie into the ground because Nicholls isn’t at all an OHL level goalie.
5) They had a chance to evaluate all of this at the deadline and Brown chose to stay still even though offers or options to move DAmato or Sedore could have been explored and made more since in hindsight (which again, as fans we get to use hindsight when evaluating)
6) Despite all this they finished the year 1-6 and if you go back further, 4-12-1. About 20 games ago, they had a chance to push for 6th seed. 7th looked really promising too. Yet they won just 4 of their last 17 games. A complete collapse even with multiple home stands to have some advantage and games versus teams like OS, KIT, SAR, NIA that they were fighting with

Many failures this year and I’m not really sure what the positives were. I guess getting a top 4 lottery pick is nice?

 

[Mata]

You asked what the failures were and then just listed multiple failures.

As it relates to Brown:

1) Retained Hartsburg for another year despite mediocrity the prior 3 years. Yes, he fired him quickly but that left them with just 2 coaches and a guy in BJ that is just that, a guy. I don’t think he is the long term solution
2) They had just 1 import on their roster and overall have failed miserably to have impact imports play here. Kulakov wasn’t bad but didn’t make a huge impact overall
3) They traded Sproule for peanuts but kept Sellan. Speaks to a lack of coaching, a lack of personnel scouting, and a lack of guts. They almost certainly kept Sellan because of his personality and character. What fun!
4) Campbell got hurt (not their fault) but they didn’t address it and rode their 17 year old first year goalie into the ground because Nicholls isn’t at all an OHL level goalie.
5) They had a chance to evaluate all of this at the deadline and Brown chose to stay still even though offers or options to move DAmato or Sedore could have been explored and made more since in hindsight (which again, as fans we get to use hindsight when evaluating)
6) Despite all this they finished the year 1-6 and if you go back further, 4-12-1. About 20 games ago, they had a chance to push for 6th seed. 7th looked really promising too. Yet they won just 4 of their last 17 games. A complete collapse even with multiple home stands to have some advantage and games versus teams like OS, KIT, SAR, NIA that they were fighting with

Many failures this year and I’m not really sure what the positives were. I guess getting a top 4 lottery pick is nice?

I'm not even sure a top 4 is nice if we can't develop the talent.

Lockhart was 3...I wouldn't consider him a bust, but he definitely hasn't reached his true potential. Hartsburg to blame, maybe?

 

[Mata]

Also,

Erie has a 1st, 2nd, but no 3rd rounder this season unless a trade is made.

Erie Otters

ottershockey.com

 

[NOA]

I'm not even sure a top 4 is nice if we can't develop the talent.

Lockhart was 3...I wouldn't consider him a bust, but he definitely hasn't reached his true potential. Hartsburg to blame, maybe?

Lockhart a bust so far based on draft position, unless he explodes next year. That said, with the pandemic it’s a bit harder to evaluate him and there will be an asterisk there forever

I’m by no means saying the 4th overall pick is a lock for a top player but the odds are just flat out better the higher you pick. That’s a fact. Just because they missed on Lockhart, doesn’t mean picking 3rd overall is bad value or they will screw it up. They got Drysdale at 4th overall. And again, with the lottery - we have a chance to get even higher, whether that’s 1 or 2 overall. I’ll take my chances at it. I’ll take my chances at 4th overall versus 5th overall too because it just means you have more options to pick from and get your guy. Doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee but we need all the help or best odds we can get to turn things around

 

[Mata]

Lockhart a bust so far based on draft position, unless he explodes next year. That said, with the pandemic it’s a bit harder to evaluate him and there will be an asterisk there forever

I’m by no means saying the 4th overall pick is a lock for a top player but the odds are just flat out better the higher you pick. That’s a fact. Just because they missed on Lockhart, doesn’t mean picking 3rd overall is bad value or they will screw it up. They got Drysdale at 4th overall. And again, with the lottery - we have a chance to get even higher, whether that’s 1 or 2 overall. I’ll take my chances at it. I’ll take my chances at 4th overall versus 5th overall too because it just means you have more options to pick from and get your guy. Doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee but we need all the help or best odds we can get to turn things around

He had essentially had 2 years thus far...

Year 1 he might have underperformed, but he was 3rd on the team in goals this season and 6th overall in points. I could see him as a 70+ point player next season in which case being dealt a bad coach and a pandemic, it could have been worse.

Sproule didn't do anything until he was moved from our team. Yes, I realize he was the 21st pick but production doesn't completely fall on Connor when Hartsburg had a terrible knack for not developing the right players and playing his favorites with an overabundance of ice.

Right now, I'd say his lack of production is mostly things beyond his control. We hopefully get to see what he is capable of next season.

 

[NOA]

He had essentially had 2 years thus far...

Year 1 he might have underperformed, but he was 3rd on the team in goals this season and 6th overall in points. I could see him as a 70+ point player next season in which case being dealt a bad coach and a pandemic, it could have been worse.

Sproule didn't do anything until he was moved from our team. Yes, I realize he was the 21st pick but production doesn't completely fall on Connor when Hartsburg had a terrible knack for not developing the right players and playing his favorites with an overabundance of ice.

Right now, I'd say his lack of production is mostly things beyond his control. We hopefully get to see what he is capable of next season.

He’s the 3rd overall pick.. he should be the best player or 2nd best player on the team. Look at other guys drafted after him and what they have done. 48 points in year 2 (year 3 eligibility) is not good for a 3rd overall pick. I don’t care what the circumstances are. He should make other players around him better if he is living up to his draft position. Unless he gets up to or around 80-90 points next year, it’s a bust.

You have to have elite talent to win in this league. The majority of elite talent comes in round 1, import drafts, and then some round 2-3 guys sprinkled in there. The 3rd overall position should be at least high end if you expect to build around that class or that era of players. Greg McKegg (2nd overall) went from 18 points to 85 points in his second year, and it helped launch Erie into a good team by his 3rd year. For Lockhart, the pandemic certainly can be used as an excuse that it impacted his development. But even so, he needs to be the guy. He’s not… and that’s a problem for this team because they still don’t have the guy at forward

Can he make a leap next year? Sure, it’s possible. But he was underwhelming this year and very inconsistent

 

[OttersFan]

Here goes nothing in the lottery.... with Erie's luck I think we get the 3rd pick, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Mata]

He’s the 3rd overall pick.. he should be the best player or 2nd best player on the team. Look at other guys drafted after him and what they have done. 48 points in year 2 (year 3 eligibility) is not good for a 3rd overall pick. I don’t care what the circumstances are. He should make other players around him better if he is living up to his draft position. Unless he gets up to or around 80-90 points next year, it’s a bust.

You have to have elite talent to win in this league. The majority of elite talent comes in round 1, import drafts, and then some round 2-3 guys sprinkled in there. The 3rd overall position should be at least high end if you expect to build around that class or that era of players. Greg McKegg (2nd overall) went from 18 points to 85 points in his second year, and it helped launch Erie into a good team by his 3rd year. For Lockhart, the pandemic certainly can be used as an excuse that it impacted his development. But even so, he needs to be the guy. He’s not… and that’s a problem for this team because they still don’t have the guy at forward

Can he make a leap next year? Sure, it’s possible. But he was underwhelming this year and very inconsistent

If you ask me...

Outside of Drysdale, Yeti and Golod in their OA year, pretty much everyone under Hartsburg had not reached their potential.

How much playing time did our young kids lose to Hoff, Sellan, and D'Amato? All of whom were pretty underwhelming OA players if we are being honest. Swankler nowhere close, Fowler again, not even close...if anything we should be amazed Kyrou and Cohen and Lockhart advanced as much as they did.

 

[Mata]

I actually cringe to think of how much worse our "top players" would have done had Hartsburg been here all season, not to mention how underdeveloped kids like Saganiuk, Terrance, etc would be because Hoff, Sellan, and D'Amato would have been the only offensive line playing in the 3rd period.

At least BJ gave these kids a chance to improve and play instead of smothering everyone but a few select players.

 

[Mata]

2nd...at least we don't have to "worry" about Misa now.

 

[Ferda11]

Well I can sleep better knowing you guys didn’t get #1 lol. Sorry not sorry.

 

[OttersFan]

Wow we actually got 2nd. A call from McDavid and crew to hopefully sway Misa to Erie since it’s either here or Saginaw.

 

[NOA]

I wanted 2nd all along. I think Misa is great but ES has high expectations and he’s not McDavid level. Erie will have options now but I am wanting Spence. Hoping that’s where they go

 

[Mata]

Wow we actually got 2nd. A call from McDavid and crew to hopefully sway Misa to Erie since it’s either here or Saginaw.

Not necessarily...he apparently went on record saying he may not report to an American team if drafted.

 

[NOA]

2nd...at least we don't have to "worry" about Misa now.

I think part of the ES agreement is they have to go to any team that drafts them or the 1st overall team. Never been a verification to that but it seems like something the OHL would require. I don’t think we would have had an issue with Misa. Now at 2nd overall? There could easily be issues given our last 5 years are horrible. But at least they have options and there are 3 legit forward prospects to pick from. They just need at least 1 to want to come here, hopefully the best one

 

[NOA]

Not necessarily...he apparently went on record saying he may not report to an American team if drafted.

Where was this reported at?

 

[Mata]

Where was this reported at?

It was on Twitter and it was in the 2006 born draft thread on the forums. It wasn't an official outright no, but it wasn't a promising answer that he would 100% report if he was drafted. It's why I posed the hypothetical earlier in this thread about a top pick not reporting.

 

[NOA]

The lottery order feels “too perfect” to me

Niagara at 4 because of all their off ice issues makes total sense. Sudbury at 3 because they literally just won the lottery last year. Erie at 2 because they need help and you want US teams being relevant. Saginaw at 1 where their record said they would pick

Hmmmm

This is why I DONT want a lottery every year. I don’t trust it unless I physically see them pulling teams from a hat. Even that isn’t verified from your living room couch..

 

[NOA]

It was on Twitter and it was in the 2006 born draft thread on the forums. It wasn't an official outright no, but it wasn't a promising answer that he would 100% report if he was drafted. It's why I posed the hypothetical earlier in this thread about a top pick not reporting.

Either way, I don’t think he’s a McDavid/Tavares prospect. It’s not a slam dunk pick and Erie needs some size up front, so adding a 15 year undersized guy to their forward group seems concerning. Just saying

I would take him for sure but I would rather Saginaw gets him and we have the best 2006 forward we want. I don’t want to feel obligated to take him off ES alone.

 

[Mata]

Either way, I don’t think he’s a McDavid/Tavares prospect. It’s not a slam dunk pick and Erie needs some size up front, so adding a 15 year undersized guy to their forward group seems concerning. Just saying

I would take him for sure but I would rather Saginaw gets him and we have the best 2006 forward we want. I don’t want to feel obligated to take him off ES alone.

You are correct...all indications are he isn't on the McDavid/Tavares level.

There is a lot of talk that in order to gain ES he has to agree to report to where he is drafted, but that isn't confirmed. In addition, not really sure anyone who had ES didn't report to the team that drafted them anyways. I think most is hypothetical.

There was also mention in the interview Misa was looking at University/College as another option if he didn't like his drafting team.

 

[J Simmons]

Hot take(s):

anyone who thought we were out first round is plain not paying attention

Despite Hoff Damato and sellan being underwhelming OAs, Hartsburg is entirely to blame for their development as well as the development of our current younger players

I will genuinely miss those guys considering they had more intangibles than 99% of the league